Destroying Brake Pads

[Osmoliver]

Hi all,

I'm hoping to be educated. Yesterday was the second time that I've gone through a set of brand new front brake pads in less than a day on track. I've done this in different cars; my NA Mx-5 and my BMW Z3.

I can't remember the brand of my Mx-5 pads, but they were cheap. On my Z3 I'd fitted Brembo pads, although road pads I didn't expect to last such a short time.

Both track days were at Blyton Park, which has a lot of braking and few straights for the brakes to cool off.

Is it simply that I'm using road pads that are not designed for track use and they're disintegrating? Or am I potentially doing something wrong when fitting them, bedding them in or am I braking wrong?

Appreciate any insight you can offer.

[Osmoliver]

illmonkey said:

Your problem is road pads. I’ve killed a set of brembo road pad in my 182 in an hour. It’s all I could get the day before though.

Get some good track pads and you’ll do a few track days per set.

That beats me yesterday, I thought lunchtime in the Z3 was impressive! Definitely getting the feeling that track pads are a worthwhile investment.

[Osmoliver]

MJ85 said:

How many track miles/laps are you doing on each track day?

I won't have managed much more than 50 miles yesterday. The Mx-5 was probably more like 100 miles in the day.

[Osmoliver]

thebraketester said:

Yes. Buy better brake pads.


.....and improve cooling.

Thanks for the advice, duly noted!

Excuse my naivety, but would improving cooling be via slotted/grooved discs? And/or getting more air to the brakes?

[Osmoliver]

iguana said:

Yes to an appropriate pad, yes to improving cooling, no to fancy discs, waste of money, oe quality is fine.

What pad is a very long list & discussion & disagreements abound, few will disagree with say a pagid rs29 pad however, only real downside is price, a Ds1.11 does a similar job for less, but the squeal on road is a downside.

Those pagids are pricey! Ferodo's website suggests the DS1.11s are for track use only? I've previously been recommended DS2500s for the Mx-5 and was planning on purchasing some of them at some point.

[Osmoliver]

james_gt3rs said:

How long are your sessions and are you on track tyres? These combined will kill brakes... also have you checked they aren’t binding?

I try to keep them short, roughly half to a dozen laps with a cool down lap too. No, road tyres. I don't believe they're binding, there's no pad/disc noise until I'm down to the backing plate. Are there any other checks I should be considering?

[Osmoliver]

motorhole said:

Was it you who I was following in the Z3 who's front wheels burped out a huge cloud of smoke every time you were on the brakes?

Agree with the sentiments above. Better pads are they way forward. Seem expensive, but...well I've done 9 trackdays on the set of CL RC5+ in my E30 now (including yesterday), still 6 or 7 mm left. So they do pay for themselves after a while...

If you try that and it's still not enough, try the 330i disc & caliper upgrade, again with track pads - provided you have the 17" wheels to clear them.

If you were at Frank's, yup! 😂

Definitely going to give better pads a go. Your E30 went well!

I've got 16" wheels on the Z3, so will start with just pads. My Mx-5 is my usually track drive, but it's off the road at the minute.

[Osmoliver]

Mr MXT said:

roddo said:

Mr MXT said:

Blyton isn’t that hard on brakes, especially in a low powered and light car like an MX5.

IT could be a technique issue.

I beg to differ as there is several 100-30mph corners at Blyton. It's much heavier on brakes that the likes of Donington

Only into the wiggler and the right hander after port froid...and what corners are as slow as 30?!

I’ll allow you the poetic license though, You can peddle an mx5 a heck of lot faster than I can...!

I'm not willing to rule out that technique may also be a contributing factor, would anyone care to elaborate what perfect/best practice brake technique is?

[Osmoliver]

MJ85 said:

Does sound like relatively excessive wear then. Good luck getting it sorted.

I agree, that's why I'm asking questions. Thanks.

And thank you to everyone else who has suggested upgrading pads and cooling. Lots of recommendations and solutions for me to try.

[Osmoliver]

motorhole said:

Cheers! Was a great day and very entertaining to watch somebody try and drive on brakes that were actually on fire!

Yep, good pads should see you through. Track/road offerings from Carbon Lorraine (RC5+/RC6), Carbotech, Pagid etc should all do a great job.

Someone did mention technique above too - short, hard braking is much better for pad life than long steady braking, but that might be something you already know

Was so grateful it was still on with all the chaos at the moment! I had lots of fun whilst I was on track. Popping to ECP for new pads and fitting them in the paddock wasn't as entertaining haha!

Cool, thanks for the recommendations. Should have loads of time to fit some before Frank's next event. I might even have the Mx-5 (red NA) back by then!

It's something I've been told and tried to implement. If you leave your braking as late as possible, you can't be on the brakes too long, right? Could probably do with someone who knows in the passenger seat to give me some feedback.

[Osmoliver]

nickfrog said:

Try and brake hard but for as short a time as possible rather then let the pads drag unnecessarily. Not always easy when you trail brake of course but some people don't release quickly enough.
This may not solve anything of course until you fit pads that can cope.
General braking tips can be found on Driver61 on YT.
Working on your braking trace is particularly useful.

Thanks for the braking tips, I tend to try and get my braking done in a straight line before turning in rather than trail braking.

Watched a couple of videos from Driver61, really interesting channel!

Zoobeef said:

I love Blyton
https://youtu.be/Fj4dSkxdjHY
Reasonably hard on brakes though a theres not much time between corners. Most has been said already but get some decent track focused pads, I've never had an issue with Carbon Lorraine RC6, even racing up to an hour and I use standard pagid discs (in a VX220).

Sweet lap, love the noise of the supercharger too!

Burnzyb said:

My mate does a lot of track days at donno as he lives 20 minutes away the bugger, and he did say that running ducts to the front brakes made a massive difference on track, and it was out lasting more serious brake kits that didn’t have extra cooling.

I live about half an hour from Donington and shamefully have never been on track there, I need to change that. I've done loads of Autosolo events though.

CedricN said:

1 hour or 1 season, the amount of pad life difference you get from a bad or good pad is so massive that most of the new guys cant believe it, they think they need 8 piston calipers.

The ring is a breeze on tyres and brakes compared to the small tracks like the ones we have here in sweden, very little time to cool down between the corners.

It's taken me a good few years of motorsport to get brake pads to fail. I didn't believe it until it happened to me twice, so I don't blame the new guys. My eyes are well and truly open now though and will be upgrading pronto.

motorhole said:

Found it: https://youtu.be/hJnyE0wuCVQ

They really were smoking! Looks like I was braking a little too much though, could have probably carried a little more speed into the wiggler.