Opinions... Trackday, was I treated fairly?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'd like some feedback on a trackday at Anglesey following a black flag incident.
I was in a 2005 Audi A4 diesel estate, full interior, stock engine, **** tyres, towbar on the back. I've only been to Anglesey twice before and am still learning the track.
After my stint, I was politely told by the TDO I was "too aggressive" and "wasn't moving over for people", but there was nobody behind me the whole 8 lap stint. The only thing I can think of was coming past the pit wall with a GT3RS right behind me... but as you can see on the video, I'd just overtaken him. Ditto the other 911, the Megane IV RS, the VX220, the M3. They were only behind me after being overtaken. So why was I "not letting people through"? Seems an odd complaint.
Question 1) I've looked back over the video and not seen a single blue flag (I could be wrong). Shouldn't the marshalls have been doing this to let me through? Why were they actively doing it with other cars, but not mine? There was a couple of Ariel Atoms on what looked like a similar pace to me, getting waved through at every opporunity.
Question 2) Should people be backing off, and moving over to the right to let me through? I spectated, and many did this for other cars. I also spent 3 whole laps up close behind a Caterfield as an experiment and it would not move. Is that fair?
This isn't a pop at the TDO I am just trying to make sense of it all and learn from it. Admittedly my patience could be better, but it's hard to overtake on the big straights when I'm in a lardy diesel estate. Stupid car to track, I know.
Video here
I'd like some feedback on a trackday at Anglesey following a black flag incident.
I was in a 2005 Audi A4 diesel estate, full interior, stock engine, **** tyres, towbar on the back. I've only been to Anglesey twice before and am still learning the track.
After my stint, I was politely told by the TDO I was "too aggressive" and "wasn't moving over for people", but there was nobody behind me the whole 8 lap stint. The only thing I can think of was coming past the pit wall with a GT3RS right behind me... but as you can see on the video, I'd just overtaken him. Ditto the other 911, the Megane IV RS, the VX220, the M3. They were only behind me after being overtaken. So why was I "not letting people through"? Seems an odd complaint.
Question 1) I've looked back over the video and not seen a single blue flag (I could be wrong). Shouldn't the marshalls have been doing this to let me through? Why were they actively doing it with other cars, but not mine? There was a couple of Ariel Atoms on what looked like a similar pace to me, getting waved through at every opporunity.
Question 2) Should people be backing off, and moving over to the right to let me through? I spectated, and many did this for other cars. I also spent 3 whole laps up close behind a Caterfield as an experiment and it would not move. Is that fair?
This isn't a pop at the TDO I am just trying to make sense of it all and learn from it. Admittedly my patience could be better, but it's hard to overtake on the big straights when I'm in a lardy diesel estate. Stupid car to track, I know.
Video here
Edited by Kellerman on Friday 17th June 00:28
85Carrera said:
It was because you drove like a cock. Not seen the whole video (because I got bored with the music and the fawning laughter of your passenger) but no need to be all over the back of other cars going into corners on a trackday.
Erm, thanks for that? It wouldn't be happening if they used their mirrors, got blue flagged or just moved over though would it?
roadsmash said:
You asked for people’s opinions… you received two opinions before you deleted the post? Two? Why did you make the post? Did you expect everyone to agree with you?
Even more bizarrely, the answer to all your possible questions are answered PERFECTLY by the very kind and patient marshal at the end of the video!
He explains that your driving was just a little bit too aggressive.
Also your comment in the video “why come to a track day and go so slow” is a bit arrogant really. Not everyone wants to drive as fast as you, some people get just as much enjoyment when driving slower.
As the marshal said to you, everyone has different abilities.
Also, the way you hold the steering wheel screams “I’m an amateur.” Hands are all over the place! For you to judge others is a bit of a dick move to be honest. Wind your neck in.
If you want to race aggressively, get a race license.
Thanks for that.Even more bizarrely, the answer to all your possible questions are answered PERFECTLY by the very kind and patient marshal at the end of the video!
He explains that your driving was just a little bit too aggressive.
Also your comment in the video “why come to a track day and go so slow” is a bit arrogant really. Not everyone wants to drive as fast as you, some people get just as much enjoyment when driving slower.
As the marshal said to you, everyone has different abilities.
Also, the way you hold the steering wheel screams “I’m an amateur.” Hands are all over the place! For you to judge others is a bit of a dick move to be honest. Wind your neck in.
If you want to race aggressively, get a race license.
Few points:
I am an amateur. I don't pretend otherwise.
I have an injury, I can't hold the wheel as I'd like to. And don't particularly care how it "looks", so long as I'm in control of the car.
I wasn't fast. It's an A4 diesel for christs sake. Other people were just rather oddly deciding to drive even slower than me.
There was no marshall in the video, that was a TDO. And he was objectively wrong about much of what he said so I won't pay too much attention to it. I also think you're similarly out of your depth (no offence).
Henz said:
I wouldn't complain about the lack of marshalling on track as fair enough, they could have blue flagged some cars for you, but you would just as likely been black flagged during your laps for that driving rather than advised after the fact.
You overtook a lot of those cars in or shortly after corners as they were held up by traffic but respecting the track day rules. Doesn't mean you were faster than them and if they then caught you up once they'd cleared the traffic then let them back through.
In fairness I caught all those cars outside of traffic. There were enough clear gaps to see it wasn't just about them being held up.You overtook a lot of those cars in or shortly after corners as they were held up by traffic but respecting the track day rules. Doesn't mean you were faster than them and if they then caught you up once they'd cleared the traffic then let them back through.
They didn't re-catch me at any point.
BobM said:
Overtaking on a trackday is supposed to be on the straights and with consent. Your first overtake was past 2 cars when the 911 immediately in front of you was waiting to get past the TT. There's no indication either of them had indicated for you to pass or indeed were expecting you to pass.
Sorry Bob you're wrong there. I have just checked the event instructions from the TDO. It's not overtaking by consent at all and it never has been. That would be a horrendously boring trackday if you think about it!They do however, specifically mention letting faster cars past by backing off, and moving over to the right. I didn't always see that happening, so technically some of the fault lies with the other cars.
Risk comes (IMO) from being out of control, being unaware of your surroundings and by not doing the easy thing and letting people through.
I was well within my driving limits. I have driven much, much quicker in normal cars and quicker still in cars with power. This was absolutely dull by comparison.
I'd expect people turning up in track-focused cars to at least be able to use their mirrors and move over, or drive quicker than a diesel estate. Is that too much to ask?
I was well within my driving limits. I have driven much, much quicker in normal cars and quicker still in cars with power. This was absolutely dull by comparison.
I'd expect people turning up in track-focused cars to at least be able to use their mirrors and move over, or drive quicker than a diesel estate. Is that too much to ask?
pincher said:
Would you say he was wrong about what he said immediately before that?
Looking back at the session and his comments, it doesn't seem like he knew what was going on. The facts of the situation eluded him somewhat. So I'd treat all his comments with a bit of skepticism based purely on that.That aside, yes, some people will have the opinion my driving is aggressive and they are entitled to that opinion.
geeks said:
OP has put this on farcebook as well, surprised he hasn't been torn a new on on there yet too.
Too close to the car in front.
Too many close passes.
Three abreast on a TD is a general no-no.
Crossing the pit exit line without looking.
Bullying other cars.
Terrible wheel control and technique, I don't care about your "injury" if the car had snapped there was no way you where catching it, sit closer, you are not cruzin down da strip mate!
The Traction Control saved you more than once and probably more than you would admit to.
Music - One should never have music on, if your car suddenly develops a bad noise you wont hear it.
Passenger would have been ejected for that laugh alone.
All this is posted as someone who has done well over 2000 laps of Anglesey and as an "racing driver" there are others on the thread critiquing your driving, you wouldn't last 5 seconds in an actual race and I am surprised the TDO didn't send you home if your driving didn't improve.
It's a trackday not a time trial if someone wants to be out there nowhere near the limit that is up to them, not you.
Thanks for the feedbackToo close to the car in front.
Too many close passes.
Three abreast on a TD is a general no-no.
Crossing the pit exit line without looking.
Bullying other cars.
Terrible wheel control and technique, I don't care about your "injury" if the car had snapped there was no way you where catching it, sit closer, you are not cruzin down da strip mate!
The Traction Control saved you more than once and probably more than you would admit to.
Music - One should never have music on, if your car suddenly develops a bad noise you wont hear it.
Passenger would have been ejected for that laugh alone.
All this is posted as someone who has done well over 2000 laps of Anglesey and as an "racing driver" there are others on the thread critiquing your driving, you wouldn't last 5 seconds in an actual race and I am surprised the TDO didn't send you home if your driving didn't improve.
It's a trackday not a time trial if someone wants to be out there nowhere near the limit that is up to them, not you.
3 abreast isn't in the rules, or briefing. TC was switched off fully. You nor I could drive that car round that track with hands at 10 & 2.
Mad Scientist said:
If anyone wants to know why track insurance has got so hard to get and expensive, this is why.
There’s always the odd meat head ego monster on a trackday, you just have to identify them early and actively avoid. You can usually start to tell from the signing on queue and the cafe.
OP: Let me know where you are on track next. I’ll cancel if I need to.
I'd say people who crash into other people, or barriers are more dangerous? Poor car control, poor lines, driving beyond their ability?There’s always the odd meat head ego monster on a trackday, you just have to identify them early and actively avoid. You can usually start to tell from the signing on queue and the cafe.
OP: Let me know where you are on track next. I’ll cancel if I need to.
I am none of these things.
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