Unreasonable Employer - Expenses
Discussion
Morning all,
I'm getting into a dispute with my employer over my business expenses.
I am required to work away alot, this has never been a problem, hotels were booked and paid for from the office. Leaving only meals and parking as cash expenses to be claimed.
They have now changed their policy since they merged with a much larger firm and we're now expected to cover all expenses and then claim as usual.
However, 4 nights of the week, pretty much every week adds up with hotels, meals etc and on top of my fuel claims and parking, my expenses are regularly reaching £1000 a month. I've explained to them there is no way I can keep this up as paying this means I can't pay my own bills and am beginning to fall behind on some smaller items such as Sky and Three.
They said a cash float is not an option, nor is a company credit card.
They suggested I got my own credit card but my credit report is far from perfect and the only ones I manage to find was at a silly rate of interest.
What are my rights here? I've basically been told it is part of my job to be able to work away as most of our work is out of the area. I can't afford to have most of my wage spent on expenses, but cant afford to lose my job.
Thanks
I'm getting into a dispute with my employer over my business expenses.
I am required to work away alot, this has never been a problem, hotels were booked and paid for from the office. Leaving only meals and parking as cash expenses to be claimed.
They have now changed their policy since they merged with a much larger firm and we're now expected to cover all expenses and then claim as usual.
However, 4 nights of the week, pretty much every week adds up with hotels, meals etc and on top of my fuel claims and parking, my expenses are regularly reaching £1000 a month. I've explained to them there is no way I can keep this up as paying this means I can't pay my own bills and am beginning to fall behind on some smaller items such as Sky and Three.
They said a cash float is not an option, nor is a company credit card.
They suggested I got my own credit card but my credit report is far from perfect and the only ones I manage to find was at a silly rate of interest.
What are my rights here? I've basically been told it is part of my job to be able to work away as most of our work is out of the area. I can't afford to have most of my wage spent on expenses, but cant afford to lose my job.
Thanks
Expenses are supposedly submitted one one week before pay pay, then reimbursed with my wage. This is not always the case in past experience. Also, I should have probably added in my original post, the only card who accepted my application (name not important but someone i've never heard) will only give me a credit limit of £250??!!
I've asked for the issue to be raised further than the Operations Manager of our particular company and to be taken to the finance department and HR of the larger group. The company is a multi-national, multi-million operation so I don't think a cash float of my average expense total is an unreasonable request.
I've asked for the issue to be raised further than the Operations Manager of our particular company and to be taken to the finance department and HR of the larger group. The company is a multi-national, multi-million operation so I don't think a cash float of my average expense total is an unreasonable request.
Highway Star said:
Sadly, OP, if your employer is a large company, I think they are going to be less inclined to work around your own personal credit issues than a smaller company would.
That's my concern. My last job, which was a much, much smaller, local business in the same industry had company credit cards issued to anyone who's expenses would exceed £100 on a regular basis, so all of us field engineers.Our expenses people must have a handbook of excuses issued to them because no matter what the total amount, you'll nearly always have an email wanting further info or re-submission.
herewego said:
Although I sympathise and credit to you for not having a credit card and think your request for a float is reasonable, I wonder about you not having even a £1000 float of your own yet you have taken contracts with Sky and Three and who knows what else. How about having a frugal couple of months to plant yourself in the black?
Contracts are contracts which I am fixed into, from a time when money was alot better with more than enough disposable income. My partner earned considerably more than I did but since the relationship ended, I stayed at the house but had to find a new job due to personal reasons (the b****'s old man was my boss) and had to take a pay cut to find work.I'll openly put my hands up and admit to being reckless with my money in the past, causing problems i'm still dealing with years later. I'm in my 1st year of an IVA to manage debts which were out of control, but broadband is something I need for the times I can work from home, a phone is on a 24 month contract. etc etc
The company is in a good financial position. We're the largest in the UK for our industry with profits every year the Millions, and yearly bonuses are always very generous. When we were took over and became part of a group all the policies on expenses as well as many other things changed to how the other companies operated.
great to get so many responses, and to hear from a few of you that i'm not the only one!
My line manager is about as as useful as a third nipple when it comes to employee issues like this, his actual response one time was 'don't stop away then, just travel each day'... yeah alright then.
So I've emailed HR explaining that it's unreasonable to expect employees to fork out half their wage every month to be able to even go to do their job properly.
Still awaiting a response.
My line manager is about as as useful as a third nipple when it comes to employee issues like this, his actual response one time was 'don't stop away then, just travel each day'... yeah alright then.
So I've emailed HR explaining that it's unreasonable to expect employees to fork out half their wage every month to be able to even go to do their job properly.
Still awaiting a response.
Sheepshanks said:
If you want to stay there I wouldn't be too arsy about it - just tell them that you're struggling and it's causing you financial hardship.
The email was in the most polite way I could put it. I explained there was no way I can manage it and explained why.
Said how i'd requested a cash float on several occasions but i was told it wasn't company policy by my manager son thought HR were the best people to speak to and asked if there is any other way we can resolve the issue together as I enjoyed my job and enjoyed being a part of a successful market leader blah blah. Mentioned the only reason I was raising the issue wasn't to be awkward but I was slowly creating financial problems for myself by not having fund to pay my own living expenses... the reason I work in the first place.
Just had a response from HR with a sarky comment about how no one else seems to struggle. But they have forwarded my concerns onto the HR manager who will review my case and be in touch.
Eric Mc said:
Whether others struggle or not is completely irrelevant and is indicative of a dismissive and arrogant attitude by your employer (or at least their HR department).
To be honest, no matter how "enjoyable" the job might be - the attitude of your employer's would have me looking elsewhere.
I have been, all dry at the moment. Most places I applied wanted apprentices or highly experienced engineers. I'm inbetween. My company pays very very well compared to others so without loosing a huge chunk of income which may not go onto expenses but still would cause me to struggle, I'm stuck. To be honest, no matter how "enjoyable" the job might be - the attitude of your employer's would have me looking elsewhere.
I was honestly shocked at her reply, HR have been very helpful in the past and very flexible.
Sheepshanks said:
Do you know if that's true? Many people run their finances very tight. Are your expenses more than most colleagues?
Most engineers all come to a little more as i've had no choice but to pick the cheapest possible hotel, and be really cheap on where or what I eat, while they will always pick a nice premier inn and spend the £8 breakfast and £20 meal budget each day. They are also all paid a little more due to experience/ time with company etc.Also, if they threatened to let me go due to that, where would I stand in terms or tribunal? My actual work has never been negatively commented on, customers actually request me personally to attend. Every company appraisal has been positive, backed up my pay rises and bonuses every year. I have never said I was not willing to work away, stop in hotels etc, i understood it was a part of the job when i joined. I have tried on numerous occasions to rectify the problem with them not just in my interest but also the companies, there have been times I have had to say I cant stop away (well in advance i'll add) and the job has had to be postponed UNTIL I GET PAID or another engineer who does not know the site has had to attend and spend the first half of the day learning the site, leaving a client unhappy.
There is also no mention in my contract of financial difficulties. I've heard of people losing their job because of bad debts.
Sheepshanks said:
How long have you worked there? I got the impression it wasn't long, but scanning back through the thread maybe that's incorrect.
I have worked there for 3 years. In that time I have had financial difficulties personally but managed with a bit of careful spending and started to see a tiny glimmer of light out there but the problem has really only escalated in the last 12 months since the policy change.Expenses are strictly done once a month, to be submitted 5 working days prior to payday, and then paid along with your salary. I've already tried to arrange weekly or even just fortnightly expense submissions but was told due to the size of the company, to no avail.
HR manager emailed me yesterday evening and advised that she's passed it onto the finance director. He has just phoned me and said he will shortly be arranging a forum where all staff can voice any concerns or ask questions with regard to expenses. I will certainly be raising the issue once again but hopefully once we know the general consensus, something will be done. Even those who can manage the expenses surely aren't really happy they have to go into their own pockets??!!
HR manager emailed me yesterday evening and advised that she's passed it onto the finance director. He has just phoned me and said he will shortly be arranging a forum where all staff can voice any concerns or ask questions with regard to expenses. I will certainly be raising the issue once again but hopefully once we know the general consensus, something will be done. Even those who can manage the expenses surely aren't really happy they have to go into their own pockets??!!
UPDATE:
We had a conference call last Wednesday which anyone could connect to in order to ask questions or bring up concerns regarding expenses.
I was really pleased to hear a few others mentioning they did sometimes struggle to find the money to cover an expense upfront, though non quite as bad as me.
Some engineers who comfortably afford to cover expenses themselves still admitted they got annoyed they were expected to pay.
Thursday, an email was sent out to us all that they were looking into a solution.
Today we had another email saying we will all be issued with company credit cards in September with an initial credit limit set to our average monthly total, we can contact the finance office to have the limit increased should we reach it before the end of the month.
We can use these for all expenses, then complete an expense sheet and hand in all receipts to confirm it was a business expense.
This means my cash expenses will only be the odd bit of parking where they don't take card etc.
I guess one man can easily be ignored but once the whole team are on board it's hard to shove under the carpet!
We had a conference call last Wednesday which anyone could connect to in order to ask questions or bring up concerns regarding expenses.
I was really pleased to hear a few others mentioning they did sometimes struggle to find the money to cover an expense upfront, though non quite as bad as me.
Some engineers who comfortably afford to cover expenses themselves still admitted they got annoyed they were expected to pay.
Thursday, an email was sent out to us all that they were looking into a solution.
Today we had another email saying we will all be issued with company credit cards in September with an initial credit limit set to our average monthly total, we can contact the finance office to have the limit increased should we reach it before the end of the month.
We can use these for all expenses, then complete an expense sheet and hand in all receipts to confirm it was a business expense.
This means my cash expenses will only be the odd bit of parking where they don't take card etc.
I guess one man can easily be ignored but once the whole team are on board it's hard to shove under the carpet!
marshalla said:
Good news indeed but, as others have mentioned, check the T&C for the company card carefully - you may still have a personal liability if the company fails to pay the bill.
This was brought up in the phone call by a colleague who has been stuck in this situation in the past. Still to receive T&Cs but we were assured the cards have no financial implications on ourselves. I'm not sure how it's going to work as of yet though. HereBeMonsters said:
Setting the LIMIT at the normal AVERAGE spend is utterly retarded.
Well the expenses each of us claim tend to always be a certain amount, we all look after our own jobs so the month is pretty routine. I for example rarely exceed £1200 so I will be getting a £1500 limit, any more (trips abroad usually) and i can request an increase. I don't see how that's retarded? My previous company had the same policy. The company as a whole has a credit limit on the account of £XXX, it has to be spit across the 20-30 cards which will be issued, some people only need a few hundred where a couple of others need closer to £3k.
HereBeMonsters said:
So then that's not the average then is it..?? 
Average for each individual employee, yes. If my expenses over 3 months were £900, £1200 and £1000 then thats an average of just over a grand, plus the added few hundred quid to account for higher than usual months.That will be done for each card.
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