Immediately Working for a Competitor?

[C.A.R.]

As some of you may have read on my other recent thread in this section; Working with Employees and Family Members - the very basic shorthand of that is that I am a 'victim' (for want of a better term) of Nepotism in the workplace. Basically, I'm being squeezed out and expected to train the MD's son to do my duty - albeit his is of school age and totally incapable.

Anyways, there I was minding my own business and cracking on with things when I received a phonecall from an unrecognised number.

A competitor just up the road from here (where I have been interviewed in the past) has got hold of my details and has an opening for a salesman just opened up.

Now, to quickly raise a few points-
- I don't like it where I am
- I have a second child due mid-June this year
- I need job security (as above)
- I have been looking for other employment
- This would be the same role in the same industry, but for a competitor.

The firm is based a little further away than I would like - ideally I want to work closer to home, not further away! But they want someone experienced and I have a good history with one of their current employees. They are not yet advertising the position, but have offered me an interview first.

At the time, I declined, as the company has a reputation for a fast turnover of staff. However, since the recent debacle of being treated like excriment by the MD at my current place it has dawned on me that the customer base I uphold could cause this company a lot of trouble if I suddenly left - it is true that I feel almost excited by the prospect of denying my current company the business they rely on.

Now that may sound harsh, but the situation has dictated I feel this way.

On another note; I recently applied way in advance for some leave so I could attend a dating scan with my partner who is now 20 weeks pregnant. So hap-hazard is the holiday situation here it was revealed just a few days before I was due to be off that I had in fact used my holiday allowance up (due to moving out last year). Anyway, it was a bit up in the air as to whether I would be paid or not etc. The reason this has caused an upset is that we are expected to be treated equally (obviously) and yet the Directors' son has all the time off he could possibly want - so much so that the company has given up recording his holiday days. I have been with the firm for nearly 4 years and it took a lot more effort to try and get the holiday (Paid) leave for 1 day removed from my allowance for the following year. Anyone with an ounce of respect would have just allowed me to take it - I typically receive / reply to phone calls and emails even on my days off!

So back to the live situation. The above prompted me to ask our administrator for a copy of my Contract of Employment since I can't find a copy (could have been lost in the recent move perhaps). Anyway... it transpires that the company forgot to draw up a formal contract for me.

Now I'm thinking; I could use this to my advantage, so I have kept quiet about it.

What I'm asking the readers of PH is, whether it would be legally correct for me to just up and leave - without any notice? Or is there a mandatory period which has to be offered, if you have been working with a company for a certain amount of time?

I'm also interested to hear whether you think it is morally correct too. I'm furious with the company and the way they have treated me over the last few weeks, that it has lead me to this feeling of wanting to get my own back.

In the past I have had a contract (again for a similar company) which stated that I could not leave to work for a competitor within 3 months of my contract terminating - how much water that holds I don't know.

The way I read it now is; I could leave and be working elsewhere as early as tomorrow. That would really upset the people here - whom I have ran out of respect for - and it could bag me a comfortable payrise too, with the only cost being a longer commute.

I'm keen to know what everyone else thinks?
Have you ever left to work for a competitor?
How real is the saying The Grass is Always Greener?

There would be no coming back from doing something like this either, but I can't see what negative implications that might have?

[C.A.R.]

Interesting points - thanks all. Apologies in advance for any poor spelling as.I'm now using my mobile...

I've done a little more investigating tonight - contacted a former employee who used to work at this new company to try and get a better idea of this revolving door situation. The news is positive - he left because he was head-hunted by another company who offered him a better salary. The other person I was aware had left apparently left to work for the market leader too - so definitely not as bad as it looked originally. It's very handy knowing these people and staying connected through social media!

I agree heavily with one of the posts above - I owe these guys nothing. I've tried time and time again to boost our company image and nobody seems the least bit interested in my efforts. I want to work for a company that has a modicum of ambition.

Luckily I'm close with my immediate boss - he too has the same issues with the current working situation / ethic but is much more lassias-fayre about it, something which can probably be attributed to his higher salary (therefore giving him a greater tolerance of the bullsh*t). I have deliberately made him aware of my intentions to leave because whilst I'm positive he won't divulge this information with the Managing Director he will with his superior (hope that makes sense).

Furthermore I have organised to meet with this company informally later this week to see if I would be compatible. Even the intrigue of meeting this company has made me.realise how much I need to stop whinging and moaning (such as my other thread!) and actually DO SOMETHING about it.

[C.A.R.]

I respect the comments recommending that I don't burn bridges etc. but I feel that I will never have a place in this company again (it's only small, about 8 office-based staff). The company is not in a strong place in the market, losing jobs left right and centre due to quality issues etc. and they are looking to implement a new software / quotation system - something which killed off my previous company because nobody could get it to work and the customers didn't like it!!

So, I can't see this going anywhere and I certainly can't see me coming back. If I needed a reference I would turn to my immediate boss (sales director) who I car-share with and we get along very well - so I don't need the help of the directors here. The sales director actually appreciates why I'm doing what I'm doing.

When I started here 4 years ago there was a natural path of progression; I was a sales manager at a company which had just gone bust and this company wanted an experienced estimator. Eventually, I would take up the role of Sales director as he progressed into the manufacturing side of things. This natural path has been 'intersected' by the MD's inexperienced son who has this overwhelming arrogance because he knows that some day he will take over the company from his father. It is this constant undermining of my position which has made me feel pretty worthless in the company, despite all that I do for it - I re-wrote the entire company website from nothing, have produced marketing flyers, tried to promote the company in the best possible light, used my CAD skills to produce working drawings - way outside of what is expected of me in this role, yet all the focus is on whether sales are being successful. They will miss the 'extra curricular' things which I do for them and the sales director has already pointed out that they will really struggle without anybody technical to produce drawings. Good luck to them.

My meeting is at 5:30 this evening, after work. I'll report back on how things go...

[C.A.R.]

Pit Pony said:

Imagine if the place you are wanted to get rid of you, and the boss happened to be drinking buddies / members at the masons / golf partners / brothers in all but name, and they colluded to get you to resign, and once into the new job, fire you for it "not working out"

I'm a master with conspiracy theories. Anyway, just be cautious, as nobody gets to be the boss without being a little bit of a tt.

You are assuming far too much of my MD! He's really not that professional and doesn't have any mates in the trade (which probably goes to show what kind of bloke he is too).

The 'competitor' low-balled me anyway, made me an offer for basic salary which was so far below what I'm currently on (-£5k) that I would literally not pass the affordability test on my current rented accommodation! The 'teaser' was that there was an opportunity to earn potential commission of a healthy 5% on new business. Unfortunately, it's not enough to warrant the extra travel time (over half an hour a day more ~ 20 miles further) for less money with less job security.

The interviewer also seemed more interested in talking about what he does and how long he has been in the trade rather than what my responsibilities / expectations would be. Instantly this turned me off the idea.

I'm not sure that's how 'headhunting' works, making someone an offer to move where they will (at least to start with) be earning considerably less money at a greater cost to them!

I let them know I wasn't interested at the end of the interview and they turned around and said that the highest they would go would be to match my salary - but the caveat being that I would lose out on the first £xxxx of any commission earned to make up the difference. I left the job spec there and didn't even take away any paperwork - hopefully making it blindingly obvious that I was not interested.

I'm still looking to move, but I think I will need to look to a newer industry if I'm to work any closer to home.

[C.A.R.]

Things have moved on a bit since my last post.

I'm now looking at an external sales role for another competitor - much bigger company. The role includes the supply of a company car as well as a pretty substantial increase in pay (think 25%) with an uncapped bonus on top of that. I'm attending a second-stage interview this week and whilst I'm trying not to get my hopes up I am quietly confident.

Which leads me on to my current employer.

I have established that the sh*t will truly hit the fan if I hand in my notice (I have done a good job of making myself indespensable). However, I still have no written contract with this company.

The new company will want a fast-starter, so were very keen to hear that I could start in as little as 2 weeks. This is me being 'generous' as legally I am only obliged to give the company 1 week (30 days continuous employment minimum). Because no contract is in place for what would typically be 1 months' notice, I am going to offer them 2 weeks. If they grumble I can always put it back to 1 week.

I plan to time this with a payday - so my last day lands on the day which money is usually in my account. This is purely because of a conversation I had with another ex-employee who told a sorry tale of how he was messed about with pay.

Fingers crossed I will now have a second interview as successful as the first.

[C.A.R.]

Well, finally gone and done it - got the official offer of employment through today. At last, I can jump this sinking ship.

I'm going to offer to work until the end of the month and see how that sits. Likely to be an awkward discussion, but it's important my employer understands why I'm leaving so hopefully they can ensure that other people don't feel the same in the future.

Nepotism ruins business and it is the primary reason I am moving on. I've considered writing my reasons in my resignation letter, but I'm more interested to find out if the director will have the backbone to actually ask me...

[C.A.R.]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Fortunately the new company is in a different area of the market - so not a direct competitor anyway. They are 10 times the size of the company I am leaving.

I'm leaving on good terms - I never made it a big secret that I was unhappy and looking to move on. Sadly, it doesn't look like they will be interested in holding an exit meeting or asking me why I want to leave - so they will carry on blind to their ways. Oh well.

The other thing which p*ssed me off is that as soon as I announced my resignation the MD made a smart remark about me needing a 'smarter car than what I've got' (which is admittedly a shed) - like it was any of his business?! He soon shut up when I pointed out that I would be getting a company car, all expenses paid. So ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!

[C.A.R.]

Just 2 days left now, Monday and Tuesday and then I'm done!

I have been sent an email with an attachment that the Managing Director has sent to me - it's a generic questionaire about leaving a company.

My initial thought was; how impersonal! I've been here 4 years and I'm on first-name terms with everyone here, my desk is even directly next to the MD's.

I have no intention of filling out the form, but I feel like I need to word a letter to my MD to explain why I left, something along the grounds of "I have not completed your questionaire but I felt you should know that..."

I don't intend to burn any bridges, or cause offence, so I will have to word it carefully. I don't want any confrontation in the office, juet because I don't want my last days here to be awkward.

Would you do the same, or would you just move on and not correspond at all?