Help me make my mind up...
Discussion
One of those times I wish I could just chat to my dad about this, but the internet is the next best thing.
- Have been in my current role for 3 years next month
- Have made good progression but reached a ceiling where the next step requires either (a) company expansion or (b) someone else leaving
- Have been recognised at the company as over-achieving and been assigned a board-level "mentor" to help my career. As part of this I've been made aware that should (a) or (b) above occur, I'm first in line.
However, I have a lengthy commute (35 miles each way) and have been itching for a job nearer home as travel costs are high. Flexi-working sadly not an option. I'm frustrated at the wait for a promotion which could be 6 weeks or 6 years.
I was approached by a recruiter a few weeks ago and invited to interview for a similar role at a competitor. I went along with the 'nothing to lose' mindset and as things fell, was offered the role.
- Very similar role to present, but with increased responsibility and potential to learn a few new skills.
- More senior sounding job title (good for CV...)
- Down the road from my current office (so no change to commute)
- Huge pay rise. They're matching my basic salary but adding a commission structure which realistically could provide me upwards of 30% of my basic pay in bonus (they said closer to 45%, but I know the industry and this was optimistic). Currently, my bonus is under 7% even when exceeding targets.
I'm torn. Do I stay with the company I know and who offer great "office culture", pension scheme, additional annual leave. Or take the jump and consider 5 days annual leave to be worth far less than a 30% pay jump, and enjoy the new experiences?
I have a meeting about something else this afternoon with my line manager and not sure if it's worth trying to mention this to him and getting a counter-offer. Always a controversial move.
Help?
- Have been in my current role for 3 years next month
- Have made good progression but reached a ceiling where the next step requires either (a) company expansion or (b) someone else leaving
- Have been recognised at the company as over-achieving and been assigned a board-level "mentor" to help my career. As part of this I've been made aware that should (a) or (b) above occur, I'm first in line.
However, I have a lengthy commute (35 miles each way) and have been itching for a job nearer home as travel costs are high. Flexi-working sadly not an option. I'm frustrated at the wait for a promotion which could be 6 weeks or 6 years.
I was approached by a recruiter a few weeks ago and invited to interview for a similar role at a competitor. I went along with the 'nothing to lose' mindset and as things fell, was offered the role.
- Very similar role to present, but with increased responsibility and potential to learn a few new skills.
- More senior sounding job title (good for CV...)
- Down the road from my current office (so no change to commute)
- Huge pay rise. They're matching my basic salary but adding a commission structure which realistically could provide me upwards of 30% of my basic pay in bonus (they said closer to 45%, but I know the industry and this was optimistic). Currently, my bonus is under 7% even when exceeding targets.
I'm torn. Do I stay with the company I know and who offer great "office culture", pension scheme, additional annual leave. Or take the jump and consider 5 days annual leave to be worth far less than a 30% pay jump, and enjoy the new experiences?
I have a meeting about something else this afternoon with my line manager and not sure if it's worth trying to mention this to him and getting a counter-offer. Always a controversial move.
Help?
So I had the meeting with my manager and as part of it asked what his view was on my future at the company I currently work for. Essentially I asked if there was anything happening with new sites and I also asked if this year's bonus program had been agreed as it's now May and we've not heard a peep.
We discussed it and the new scheme (although not confirmed) wasn't much of an improvement, so I told him that I'd been offered the role elsewhere and while I love my current job - Great employer, great team, good manager, etc - there comes a point where someone dangles a very large carrot and you have to ask yourself whether you should be taking it. I said that this was why I needed to know progression options - Respectfully, is it worth me sticking around, or will I be waiting forever?
He told me he thought I should stay, but could understand the reasons I'd consider leaving. He told me that if I left, they'd be calling me back the moment a new site opens because they'd want me to work it. But he also said he was going to "have a conversation" with one of our directors to see what could be done on my current package. "No promises" he added.
The new employer call me an hour after that meeting and asked if I'd decided. He could probably tell by my tone that my decision was to stay where I am so before I gave an answer he also said "since we spoke, I've confirmed that we can match your current holiday allowance [+ 5 days] and we'll up the salary offer to [+2%]. We'll also contribute 5% to a pension if you match it."
I thanked him for this, but said that I would be declining the offer on the basis that my "main goal" for moving would, in fact, be to take a role closer to home and that if I took this position I couldn't guarantee that in a year's time I'd be having the same concerns over my commute. We ended on a good note. He thanked me for my honesty and I told him that should they open any sites nearer my home I'd be interested in coming back to speak to them. He agreed and said they'd want that, too.
An hour later he sent me a text message. "If we allowed home-working and shorter office hours, would this help?"
I was driving, but replied when I got home around 5.30pm to say could he email me details of what they might propose, and also could they confirm the details of how the bonus structure works around other KPIs (my concern here being it's a bit "too good to be true" and I wanted to see the catch. I told him I'm moving house this coming week (we're completing, not actually moving for 3 weeks) and so I've a lot on my plate and would appreciate a few days to think it over. I've not had a response yet, but I might here back on Monday. Fingers crossed.
We discussed it and the new scheme (although not confirmed) wasn't much of an improvement, so I told him that I'd been offered the role elsewhere and while I love my current job - Great employer, great team, good manager, etc - there comes a point where someone dangles a very large carrot and you have to ask yourself whether you should be taking it. I said that this was why I needed to know progression options - Respectfully, is it worth me sticking around, or will I be waiting forever?
He told me he thought I should stay, but could understand the reasons I'd consider leaving. He told me that if I left, they'd be calling me back the moment a new site opens because they'd want me to work it. But he also said he was going to "have a conversation" with one of our directors to see what could be done on my current package. "No promises" he added.
The new employer call me an hour after that meeting and asked if I'd decided. He could probably tell by my tone that my decision was to stay where I am so before I gave an answer he also said "since we spoke, I've confirmed that we can match your current holiday allowance [+ 5 days] and we'll up the salary offer to [+2%]. We'll also contribute 5% to a pension if you match it."
I thanked him for this, but said that I would be declining the offer on the basis that my "main goal" for moving would, in fact, be to take a role closer to home and that if I took this position I couldn't guarantee that in a year's time I'd be having the same concerns over my commute. We ended on a good note. He thanked me for my honesty and I told him that should they open any sites nearer my home I'd be interested in coming back to speak to them. He agreed and said they'd want that, too.
An hour later he sent me a text message. "If we allowed home-working and shorter office hours, would this help?"
I was driving, but replied when I got home around 5.30pm to say could he email me details of what they might propose, and also could they confirm the details of how the bonus structure works around other KPIs (my concern here being it's a bit "too good to be true" and I wanted to see the catch. I told him I'm moving house this coming week (we're completing, not actually moving for 3 weeks) and so I've a lot on my plate and would appreciate a few days to think it over. I've not had a response yet, but I might here back on Monday. Fingers crossed.
So they got back in touch regarding the flexible working arrangements. They'll allow me to start at any time so long as I'm there by 10am, and allow me to leave as early as 4.30 (assuming I start at 8am to make up the difference). They'll also allow me to work from home one day each week.
I've verbally accepted the role with them. I'll wait for it in writing before I hand my notice in.
I'm still not convinced in my gut though, which is worrying me. Hopefully it was the right choice.
I've verbally accepted the role with them. I'll wait for it in writing before I hand my notice in.
I'm still not convinced in my gut though, which is worrying me. Hopefully it was the right choice.
Further update
I've not received anything (yet) from the new employer in writing so have not yet handed my notice.
Today my manager in my current role contacted me to invite me to a meeting on 5th June with a senior director to "catch-up". I've also been told to expect a discretionary bonus in my pay this month. It's not a lot, it's about 0.6% of my salary.
I've not received anything (yet) from the new employer in writing so have not yet handed my notice.
Today my manager in my current role contacted me to invite me to a meeting on 5th June with a senior director to "catch-up". I've also been told to expect a discretionary bonus in my pay this month. It's not a lot, it's about 0.6% of my salary.
p1stonhead said:
Just 0.6% as presumably an incentive when they know you are on the verge of leaving? Talk about tight arses!
Yeah... We have a bonus structure which is paid quarterly. The "top tier" is 1.5% of my salary per quarter. The last quarter was frankly a bit s
t and I wouldn't have qualified for a bonus this quarter at all, but they've given me the 'mid-tier' bonus for my efforts in "challenging circumstances".But yes, bit tight.
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Without meaning to be rude op it sounds like you are a bit attached to your current employer so you are giving them too much slack. If the new firm wants you and will give you a significantly better deal then stop prevaricating and make the move before they withdraw the offer.
The current company sound like they might be stringing you along with vague promises of cake in the future at some point.
Also if you take the new job and in 18 months you want to be nearer home you will be a better placed to apply for an even better job.
Like I said no offence meant and its easier for me to say then for you to do; but make this new job yours asap, don't worry about the old company too much - be concerned with your future.
Thank you, and no offence taken. You're hitting the nail on the head really. I like my current employer. They're good to work for, generous with benefits like healthcare, death in service cover, pension, holiday etc. And my manager is great, so is his manager who I report to for certain projects. But as you say, this new role offers a good salary bump, they want me, and it puts me in a better position if I move on in the future. It's just the gut instinct which says 'better the devil you know' which I need to fight.The current company sound like they might be stringing you along with vague promises of cake in the future at some point.
Also if you take the new job and in 18 months you want to be nearer home you will be a better placed to apply for an even better job.
Like I said no offence meant and its easier for me to say then for you to do; but make this new job yours asap, don't worry about the old company too much - be concerned with your future.
I'm really just waiting for the formal offer to arrive in the post so I can hand in my (3-month...) notice.
p1stonhead said:
0.6% out of no where if they didnt know you were thinking of leaving would be a nice little gesture but its fairly insulting because of the fact they know you are probably on the verge of handing in your notice. If they actually want you (as it seems like they do), then they are idiots.
FWIW I stayed at my last company probably 3 years longer than I should have because I liked them. In the end I left because I couldnt get a pay rise of about £3k from them. Some 3 years after leaving I am on £50k more than I left there on.
Moving jobs is generally the only way to get big pay jumps.
Thanks, you're right. Studies always show that those on the highest pay 'job-hop' regularly to get it. FWIW I stayed at my last company probably 3 years longer than I should have because I liked them. In the end I left because I couldnt get a pay rise of about £3k from them. Some 3 years after leaving I am on £50k more than I left there on.
Moving jobs is generally the only way to get big pay jumps.
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 12th May 12:30
Final (?) update...
Went back to my manager last week. Told him new role had increased their offer slightly and that I was going to be taking it. He asked me what they were offering so I inflated it slightly and gave him some figures. Essentially he said that they wouldn't be able to match the new bonus structure, but if they matched the basic would I stay? I said yes and he said he'd let me know 'by Friday'.
Friday came and went with no news. So today, I emailed him and gave formal written notice back-dated to Wednesday. He called me shortly afterwards and told me that unfortunately those higher up have said they wouldn't be able to give the figure I'd requested, so he would have to accept my notice.
Honestly, it's a bit of a kick as I was actually feeling quite positive and that they would have done that following the previous conversation, but ultimately it only got to that point because I'd made a decision.
So I'm now working my 3 month notice period, feeling a bit sick/nervous today, but I'm sure that will lift. Thanks for the advice, and if anyone wants to throw good/positive messages this way please do so!
Went back to my manager last week. Told him new role had increased their offer slightly and that I was going to be taking it. He asked me what they were offering so I inflated it slightly and gave him some figures. Essentially he said that they wouldn't be able to match the new bonus structure, but if they matched the basic would I stay? I said yes and he said he'd let me know 'by Friday'.
Friday came and went with no news. So today, I emailed him and gave formal written notice back-dated to Wednesday. He called me shortly afterwards and told me that unfortunately those higher up have said they wouldn't be able to give the figure I'd requested, so he would have to accept my notice.
Honestly, it's a bit of a kick as I was actually feeling quite positive and that they would have done that following the previous conversation, but ultimately it only got to that point because I'd made a decision.
So I'm now working my 3 month notice period, feeling a bit sick/nervous today, but I'm sure that will lift. Thanks for the advice, and if anyone wants to throw good/positive messages this way please do so!
Trabi601 said:
Just be sure you haven't been swayed by an OTE that you think looks reasonable, but in reality has strings attached making it difficult to actually get it.
I've worked for a few businesses where the headline target looked achievable, but there were some hoops to jump through which meant I didn't know anyone who actually had it paid.
This was definitely part of my decision-making process. Ultimately, they're paying a higher basic than I have currently (2%, not much, but something) and that alone is comfortable for me to live on (indeed, my current bonus is so paltry that I hardly consider it a worthwhile incentive). Thier commission structure is very strong and I challenged them on it in a telephone call after the interview because it definitely sounded too good. They confirmed categorically that it is purely a percentage of one stream of revenue, and doesn't rely on any other KPIs to be earned. It's also in my contract as part of my remuneration and (most interestingly for me) doesn't say that it's discretionary just that it "forms part of your monthly remuneration".I've worked for a few businesses where the headline target looked achievable, but there were some hoops to jump through which meant I didn't know anyone who actually had it paid.
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