Call out payments ?
Discussion
I have been asked if I would like to participate in a call out rota doing 4rd line Oracle DB support, day job is a SQL DBA but originally trained and certified on Oracle so should be fine with a bit of familiarisation.
Renumeration hasn't been mentioned but it will be paid, nobody does that for free or the joy of being woken up at 3am but not sure what the going rate is.
At the last place it was £100, so not worth the agro, remember years ago at another place it was £200 odd, just interested in what is typical if you dont mind saying.
I think it needs to be £250 to make it worth the restrictions on your spare time, as after tax/ni doesn't amount to much otherwise.
Renumeration hasn't been mentioned but it will be paid, nobody does that for free or the joy of being woken up at 3am but not sure what the going rate is.
At the last place it was £100, so not worth the agro, remember years ago at another place it was £200 odd, just interested in what is typical if you dont mind saying.
I think it needs to be £250 to make it worth the restrictions on your spare time, as after tax/ni doesn't amount to much otherwise.
£100 after tax isnt worth the agro and limitations, probably £58 for not being able to go anywhere and having to think about it.
I dont think will be called often but need to be drilled and ready, so a certain amount of time each week to do a dry run as its easy to get complacent on call out rotas and see it as money for nothing, but need to be able to respond quickly, connect without issue and sort the problem.
I think it will be a flat rate and if you get called no more money which I am ok with but it has to be half decent to make the inconvenience worth while, will see what they say.
I dont think will be called often but need to be drilled and ready, so a certain amount of time each week to do a dry run as its easy to get complacent on call out rotas and see it as money for nothing, but need to be able to respond quickly, connect without issue and sort the problem.
I think it will be a flat rate and if you get called no more money which I am ok with but it has to be half decent to make the inconvenience worth while, will see what they say.
RTaylor2208 said:
As a point of reference we get £300 (2 x 12 hour on call shifts) for a weekend but its more than oracle support including SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle, Athena, Redshift, EMR, DynamoDB and Elasticsearch being the tech we support and pretty much any processes linked to operations, maintenance or ETL\ELT processing.
Cheers, this is just one Oracle system, chance of being called is fairly low but if you are on call, you are on call I guess.Dont want to take the pee, but I want to make sure its worthwhile, but above all want to provide a good service.
Black_S3 said:
Where I used to work it was
£30 per weeknight
£150 per weekend (Friday night - Monday morning)
+ over time in hour blocks at applicable rate if called out... once the hour block had been paid a second call out in that hour was seen as already paid for.
The allowances don’t seem like much but it was a pretty easy way to earn 10k+ extra a year.
Yeah, it adds up and would take a hell of a pay rise to match it.£30 per weeknight
£150 per weekend (Friday night - Monday morning)
+ over time in hour blocks at applicable rate if called out... once the hour block had been paid a second call out in that hour was seen as already paid for.
The allowances don’t seem like much but it was a pretty easy way to earn 10k+ extra a year.
n3il123 said:
we had this a couple of years ago which may give you some idea... Link
Cheers, some good info there.Edited by J4CKO on Monday 10th June 22:42
Well, been doing the call out since the 27th of Sept, still no payment. bear in mind this is a large international company, not a tinpot operation.
I got a bit more insistent and seemed like something was going to be sorted prior to the 5th which is payroll cut off, the issues seemed to be around moving monies about internally and I said well, that isnt my issue but as it is separate departments apparently it is very complicated, my job is complicated as well but I manage, i am sure they have moved money between departments before.
I checked on it and got told "Very sorry but this is being held up at a senior management level", apparently they aren't happy with the rate and it should have been on the lower on, but I didn't agree to that, I agreed to the higher one, works out to £330 vs £170 per week before tax.
They asked me to do this, the other chap who participates in the rota is on the higher rate, which was apparently used as an incentive to get people to do it, which is why I joined ! its unrealistic for one person to do it, I started and he went on a belated holiday for two weeks. The lower rate is for keyholders and responders etc, this is for out of hours database support, not something you can just drop on and do.
So now, on call this week, still not been paid and no idea when I will get paid, deadline for Christmas will go tomorrow so I wont see it this year.
I had to get up to speed in my own time, I cleared it with my manager as its a separate dept, I did everything above board and am now feeling pretty pissed off as could have done with that money as have had a very expensive few months with one thing and another.
Not going to mention it to them now until the new year and just see what happens, I have told them what I expect and I am not going to spit my dummy out, all very well making a grand gesture and telling them to stick it but would like the money on an ongoing basis !
How would you proceed ?
I got a bit more insistent and seemed like something was going to be sorted prior to the 5th which is payroll cut off, the issues seemed to be around moving monies about internally and I said well, that isnt my issue but as it is separate departments apparently it is very complicated, my job is complicated as well but I manage, i am sure they have moved money between departments before.
I checked on it and got told "Very sorry but this is being held up at a senior management level", apparently they aren't happy with the rate and it should have been on the lower on, but I didn't agree to that, I agreed to the higher one, works out to £330 vs £170 per week before tax.
They asked me to do this, the other chap who participates in the rota is on the higher rate, which was apparently used as an incentive to get people to do it, which is why I joined ! its unrealistic for one person to do it, I started and he went on a belated holiday for two weeks. The lower rate is for keyholders and responders etc, this is for out of hours database support, not something you can just drop on and do.
So now, on call this week, still not been paid and no idea when I will get paid, deadline for Christmas will go tomorrow so I wont see it this year.
I had to get up to speed in my own time, I cleared it with my manager as its a separate dept, I did everything above board and am now feeling pretty pissed off as could have done with that money as have had a very expensive few months with one thing and another.
Not going to mention it to them now until the new year and just see what happens, I have told them what I expect and I am not going to spit my dummy out, all very well making a grand gesture and telling them to stick it but would like the money on an ongoing basis !
How would you proceed ?
BrabusMog said:
Sounds like a very hard position to be in if you aren't the kind of person that is happy to badger others to get what you should be getting. Very poor form from your employers and I would be looking for a new job ASAP. You work to live, not the other way around at the end of the day, so if you've been giving up your spare time for monies that haven't been paid then I am afraid it sounds like your employers are just taking the piss out of you.
Generally they are pretty good to work for to be fair, this is dropping between the cracks as it is between departments/divisions, I am funded and paid by one function and this call out is for another. They had two guys providing call out for a key system, one moved into yet another division and no longer wanted to be in the call out rota, he was aware of my skillset so put me forward, it was accepted, I was set up with a laptop, logins and all the required info and have been doing alternate weeks, I switch the phone divert over, do a connectivity check, have a look round and also keep in touch with the other chap about what's going on.
So, its difficult to rant at someone as my line manager has just change, new guy being helpful and doing what he can, the other guy in the call out rota is sympathetic, his boss who ok'd it is at the mercy of HR/Senior management and I dont have any names, otherwise its total ambivalence from our HR.
Otherwise, cant complain as its close to home, pays ok, can work from home and they arent usually a problem and dont get mithered to death, plus we dont work Friday afternoons, so am aware of which side my bread is buttered and not going to jeopardize that.
BrabusMog said:
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind b
ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
My thoughts entirely, appreciate the solidarity, its like trying to get something sorted between bits of BT, ring Openwhatsit and they say you need to call Wholesale or something, then vice versa ! Basically in that situaiton I don't give a flying toss, which bit, to my mind its all part of the same whole.ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.Nobody is going to starve, I am quite a placid kind of chap but I will never let things lie over financial matters. I have, to my knowledge never taken advantage of anyone in that manner and I really don't take kindly to having it done to me.
Been an expensive few months, youngest has gone to China with Uni (ker-ching) eldest got made redndant from TC so sorted him out, Christmas etc so would have been nice to get the money in, but not living hand to mouth, can wait but I like to have the cash before I spend it,
BrabusMog said:
Tough situation for you, it will eventually be sorted out but it's very frustrating no doubt. Still, at least you've got a kid off to China and are willing to help the other who has fallen on hard times, sounds like a good family unit, fair play 
Just a bit annoying, nothing more, will always help the kids out if I can, the youngest can sod off now, he has been to Tokyo, New York, Milan and Shanghai as part of his course, not to mention his rent of £550 each month, plus all the other stuff he needs to pay for, finishes in June 
and we finish five years of paying for Uni accomodation for middle and youngest. Paying the eldests car loan until he gets his next pay grade, I will be quids in, with or without call out come June !xjay1337 said:
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind bks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
My thoughts entirely, appreciate the solidarity, its like trying to get something sorted between bits of BT, ring Openwhatsit and they say you need to call Wholesale or something, then vice versa ! Basically in that situaiton I don't give a flying toss, which bit, to my mind its all part of the same whole.ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.Nobody is going to starve, I am quite a placid kind of chap but I will never let things lie over financial matters. I have, to my knowledge never taken advantage of anyone in that manner and I really don't take kindly to having it done to me.
Been an expensive few months, youngest has gone to China with Uni (ker-ching) eldest got made redndant from TC so sorted him out, Christmas etc so would have been nice to get the money in, but not living hand to mouth, can wait but I like to have the cash before I spend it,
Its seen as money for old rope but its our Christmas do on Friday, cant drink, cant go anywhere more than thirty mins away, phone is on, need to have the laptop with me, its like insurance.
I treat it seriously as have seen people take, take, take and then not avail themselves when required, thats not on, take the money you need to be ready and able to do what is required.
BrabusMog said:
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Tough situation for you, it will eventually be sorted out but it's very frustrating no doubt. Still, at least you've got a kid off to China and are willing to help the other who has fallen on hard times, sounds like a good family unit, fair play
Just a bit annoying, nothing more, will always help the kids out if I can, the youngest can sod off now, he has been to Tokyo, New York, Milan and Shanghai as part of his course, not to mention his rent of £550 each month, plus all the other stuff he needs to pay for, finishes in June and we finish five years of paying for Uni accomodation for middle and youngest. Paying the eldests car loan until he gets his next pay grade, I will be quids in, with or without call out come June !
And once you're off the hook for the kids, you can have a couple extra holidays a year haha
Not heard a peep since, just not going to mention it this year then, if nothing transpires, deal with it in the New Year, a little more insistently...
llewop said:
J4CKO said:
Generally they are pretty good to work for to be fair, this is dropping between the cracks as it is between departments/divisions, I am funded and paid by one function and this call out is for another.
They had two guys providing call out for a key system, one moved into yet another division and no longer wanted to be in the call out rota, he was aware of my skillset so put me forward, it was accepted, I was set up with a laptop, logins and all the required info and have been doing alternate weeks, I switch the phone divert over, do a connectivity check, have a look round and also keep in touch with the other chap about what's going on.
So, its difficult to rant at someone as my line manager has just change, new guy being helpful and doing what he can, the other guy in the call out rota is sympathetic, his boss who ok'd it is at the mercy of HR/Senior management and I dont have any names, otherwise its total ambivalence from our HR.
Otherwise, cant complain as its close to home, pays ok, can work from home and they arent usually a problem and dont get mithered to death, plus we dont work Friday afternoons, so am aware of which side my bread is buttered and not going to jeopardize that.
a 1 in 2 rota is a bit rubbish, especially at this time of year; as it seems to have scheduled you for your Christmas do and NY - I presume the other guy 'gets' Christmas! I think you need to keep nudging the other guy and his boss.... otherwise he/they'll be needing to cover full time! that might focus their minds....They had two guys providing call out for a key system, one moved into yet another division and no longer wanted to be in the call out rota, he was aware of my skillset so put me forward, it was accepted, I was set up with a laptop, logins and all the required info and have been doing alternate weeks, I switch the phone divert over, do a connectivity check, have a look round and also keep in touch with the other chap about what's going on.
So, its difficult to rant at someone as my line manager has just change, new guy being helpful and doing what he can, the other guy in the call out rota is sympathetic, his boss who ok'd it is at the mercy of HR/Senior management and I dont have any names, otherwise its total ambivalence from our HR.
Otherwise, cant complain as its close to home, pays ok, can work from home and they arent usually a problem and dont get mithered to death, plus we dont work Friday afternoons, so am aware of which side my bread is buttered and not going to jeopardize that.
but more seriously not paying it for a few months is taking the piss - when I looked after a rota, we got stick for not getting the call out payments in the following month! Depending on the level of calls you could get, at least a one in 3 or 4 would be more civilised. For the last rota I looked after (which was very high demand) I would have got grumpy about it if we had less than 6, even 8 was stretching it at times as some of our calls could take you away from the office for a day or two, so someone else often had to step up to cover.
Am off today but going to broach it in the morning, was going to leave it until after NY but I think it needs sorting, or at least they need reminding to sort it out.
xjay1337 said:
That's why I'd be saying without being backdated your pay immediately you will not be doing on-call any more.
Life is too short, and I would never work for free.
Well, at the moment, they owe me around 2 grand before tax, so maybe 11/1200 after, its a little savings plan and one way or another I will be getting that. I have never wronged anyone financially and I don't expect it done to me and will quite happily take legal advice.Life is too short, and I would never work for free.
That said, not panicking for £1200, nobody will starve, all the bills are paid, am in credit so can afford to let it roll on a little bit.
Also, I am keen not to jeopardize it or burn any bridges going forward if I can avoid it, would be a decent extra wedge each month to spend on fun stuff.
Taita said:
The business struggling to fill the rota because of various issues is of little importance to you - that's their problem.
You need to put your foot down, they are taking the piss
Yeah, going to do that tomorrow, thought it was just usual big company inertia and the systems not fitting whan they need to do so run out of ideas but they started moaning about the rate.You need to put your foot down, they are taking the piss
I made a polite inquiry regarding this today and there is a meeting about the situation tomorrow so apparently it should be resolved then, I have been sort of a test case for the process it seems.
My ongoing patience was appreciated, their ongoing cash will be appreciated when it arrives and I intend to provide a good service, as I have been doing so far.
My ongoing patience was appreciated, their ongoing cash will be appreciated when it arrives and I intend to provide a good service, as I have been doing so far.
I have the name of the HR person now, they have a reputation for being a little difficult about such matters, but they are at the same site as I am so I will go in the office Monday and have a polite word. My predecessor ended up waiting nine months for his payment, he covered it (and got paid) whilst working in the same department, then covered when he moved to another division, thats what took nine months, so they have previous.
I dont want to do anything that would jeopradise the cover for the system in question or leave the other chap in the rota having to cover it. I take this seriously.
I am generally fairly chilled about it, I have had moments where its really annoyed me and been prepared to tell them to stick it, and possibly hand my notice in but that would be daft, I just keep that for at home, have a rant then move on. I get offers of DBA work once or twice a week so would be fairly easy to move on but having done it recently (got made redundant) I dont fancy doing that again, not yet anyway.
I am nobodys fool, I can wait and the longer it rattles on, the more money I am accruing, I will be paid for this and I want to keep it going, I do ok but have a few outgoings that cease middle of next year, so will be quids in, this will be the icing on the cake, even after tax its a nice chunk on top.
Christmas is hoving in to view, doubt anything will get sorted now so will just enjoy my time off.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a soft arse, I am quite capable of playing hardball, just not got there yet, almost partly just bemused that they are fannying about so long, its very easy to work yourself into a frenzy about something and then totally overshoot the level of aggression required.
I dont want to do anything that would jeopradise the cover for the system in question or leave the other chap in the rota having to cover it. I take this seriously.
I am generally fairly chilled about it, I have had moments where its really annoyed me and been prepared to tell them to stick it, and possibly hand my notice in but that would be daft, I just keep that for at home, have a rant then move on. I get offers of DBA work once or twice a week so would be fairly easy to move on but having done it recently (got made redundant) I dont fancy doing that again, not yet anyway.
I am nobodys fool, I can wait and the longer it rattles on, the more money I am accruing, I will be paid for this and I want to keep it going, I do ok but have a few outgoings that cease middle of next year, so will be quids in, this will be the icing on the cake, even after tax its a nice chunk on top.
Christmas is hoving in to view, doubt anything will get sorted now so will just enjoy my time off.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a soft arse, I am quite capable of playing hardball, just not got there yet, almost partly just bemused that they are fannying about so long, its very easy to work yourself into a frenzy about something and then totally overshoot the level of aggression required.
xjay1337 said:
J4CKO said:
I dont want to do anything that would jeopradise the cover for the system in question or leave the other chap in the rota having to cover it. I take this seriously.
I am generally fairly chilled about it, I have had moments where its really annoyed me and been prepared to tell them to stick it, and possibly hand my notice in but that would be daft, I just keep that for at home, have a rant then move on. I get offers of DBA work once or twice a week so would be fairly easy to move on but having done it recently (got made redundant) I dont fancy doing that again, not yet anyway.
I am nobodys fool, I can wait and the longer it rattles on, the more money I am accruing, I will be paid for this and I want to keep it going, I do ok but have a few outgoings that cease middle of next year, so will be quids in, this will be the icing on the cake, even after tax its a nice chunk on top.
Christmas is hoving in to view, doubt anything will get sorted now so will just enjoy my time off.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a soft arse, I am quite capable of playing hardball, just not got there yet, almost partly just bemused that they are fannying about so long, its very easy to work yourself into a frenzy about something and then totally overshoot the level of aggression required.
You are a soft arse.I am generally fairly chilled about it, I have had moments where its really annoyed me and been prepared to tell them to stick it, and possibly hand my notice in but that would be daft, I just keep that for at home, have a rant then move on. I get offers of DBA work once or twice a week so would be fairly easy to move on but having done it recently (got made redundant) I dont fancy doing that again, not yet anyway.
I am nobodys fool, I can wait and the longer it rattles on, the more money I am accruing, I will be paid for this and I want to keep it going, I do ok but have a few outgoings that cease middle of next year, so will be quids in, this will be the icing on the cake, even after tax its a nice chunk on top.
Christmas is hoving in to view, doubt anything will get sorted now so will just enjoy my time off.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a soft arse, I am quite capable of playing hardball, just not got there yet, almost partly just bemused that they are fannying about so long, its very easy to work yourself into a frenzy about something and then totally overshoot the level of aggression required.
Sorry mate.
Imagine you're a builder and you put in a new patio for me.
Let's say the cost is £3000.
But then I'm not going to pay you for 6 months because my girlfriend can't be bothered to bank transfer you.
If you are a builder, please get in contact as I would like to take you up on those payment terms!
That is not acceptable by anyone's standards and exactly what is happening here.
The other chap on the rota is probably being paid!
For f
k sakes man you need to take a hard stance on this.The company is taking you for a mug and you are too kind-hearted to do the right thing by yourself.
It's not like this is the first occurance, and you mentioned it on Wednesday afternoon. This has been going on for months. I bet you if you refuse to do any on call from now then you will get payment within a week.
Its a trade off between getting paid and not screwing up the possibility of continued payments in the future, my normal salary gets paid on the dot.
It is annoying, especially if anyone does anything for me, they get paid straight away.
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