Disciplinary letter advice
Discussion
Hopefully just a quick one.
A friend has received a disciplinary letter, it does not detail that the accusation is gross misconduct nor does it say that a possible outcome may be their dismissal from the job.
It is my understanding that if an employer fails to detail the above then they can't dismiss you and can only give you verbal, written, final warning. any advice appreciated.
Many thanks
A friend has received a disciplinary letter, it does not detail that the accusation is gross misconduct nor does it say that a possible outcome may be their dismissal from the job.
It is my understanding that if an employer fails to detail the above then they can't dismiss you and can only give you verbal, written, final warning. any advice appreciated.
Many thanks
Jasandjules said:
What DOES the letter say? Is it an investigation meeting?
What is he being accused of? Is it on the list of things which may be considered Gross Misconduct according to their Grievance policy?
it is a disciplinary meeting, the investigation has been carried out. The letter does specifically say misconduct or gross misconduct but the allegation is basically discussing confidential information with a non-employee . The confiscation was centred around him being made redundant and asking the non-employee about potential jobs as their work place. This conversation made its way via Chinese whispers to other staff and people under their care who were not fully informed of the redundancy. (To be clear all those being potential made redundant had been informed and the employer is basically alleging that people under their supervision may be upset by the news) What is he being accused of? Is it on the list of things which may be considered Gross Misconduct according to their Grievance policy?
Company handbook which contains disciplinary procedures is over 80 pages long. He was encouraged to discus the redundancy with family if he required support. And was not specifically told in redundancy meeting that the information was strictly confidential although employee hand book/contract would indicate that it shouldn't be discussed. Can he be expected to know the whole handbook? and wouldn't you expect employer to stress confidentiality and refer to policy when breaking the redundancy news if so worried about it leaking out?
we expect that as employer has realised they havent paid holiday pay since he's been employed that they are trying to recoup money by sacking him before his redundancy (in 6 weeks) He doesn't actually work those 6 weeks but gets paid anyway as per contract as it is a school term time role.
GT03ROB said:
I would really struggle with how an employee being made redundant who asks elsewhere for a job, which makes it's way back to his company, can be construed as in a disciplinary situation. Bonkers.
My thinking too, in the event it was taken to employment tribunal id have thought the judge would see it as a waste of his time. You can't seek alternate employment without stating why youre leaving your current job usually.and the allegation is basically that someone that works at his current company said that 'Dave' told them that 'sandra told him that my friend said he was being made redundant and was looking for other potential jobs.
Thesprucegoose said:
Half the story.
We’re not talking about a business where what was divulged is the equivalent of the official secrets act. It’s basically a care home for adults with learning difficulties, and the employer is trying to make out that the loss of staff would upset them. The employer has a high turn over of staff so it can’t be of that great a concern to them. I would have thought if you think it’s that big a worry you would explain in the redundancy meeting that it is strictly confidential and divulging info could be subject to a disciplinary? Pothole said:
Please edit this so it says what you actually mean or I may assume something incorrectly
The cost/risk of going to tribunal would likely be a lot higher than the money they would save by sacking my friend. Company have also breached their own contractual terms by not paying holiday pay so could be worth mentioning that? OP said:
it is a disciplinary meeting, the investigation has been carried out. The letter doesnt specifically say misconduct or gross misconduct but the allegation is basically discussing confidential information with a non-employee . The conversation was centred around him being made redundant and asking the non-employee about potential jobs as their work place.
The employer isn’t really that concerned about how the loss of staff will affect the volunteers as there is a pretty high turn over of staff. My friend is probably the longest serving employee below the manager concerned at about 8 months work.
They get made redundant in a months time, there is no redundancy payment but my friend would still get paid from now until them despite not having to work (only works during term time and it is in their contract that they still get paid)
Employer seems to be trying to get out of paying this as they’ve discovered they owe over £1k in holiday pay.
Company didn’t explicitly say do not communicate this as a matter of confidentiality when giving notice of redundancy but are implying that their contract and employee handbook covers this divulgence of confidential info. This is a business of about 5 employees and the handbook is over 80 pages long. I work for a large multinational and mine isn’t anywhere near that long. The only instruction was discus with family but don’t tell the volunteers as the company are looking at suitable way to break the news.
Friend didn’t discus with the volunteers, discussed with a friend about getting another job who then talked to someone else about it who then spoke to a couple of the volunteers and from there mentions of redundancy’s came up. The volunteers mentioned this to bosses as apparently concerned and named two employees they thought would be made redundant (2 employees not actually getting made redundant which is the confusing part as even if my friend had inadvertently mentioned redundancy to someone outside the business they’d have known who was being made redundant (just themselves) so some Chinese whispers at best seem to be the only evidence they have to go on and they haven’t even spoke to the person my friend allegedly told as part of the investigation.
Hope all that makes sense. To be clear the disciplinary letter didn’t mention any possible outcome including gross misconduct and simply refers to company handbook on disciplinary procedure.
They get made redundant in a months time, there is no redundancy payment but my friend would still get paid from now until them despite not having to work (only works during term time and it is in their contract that they still get paid)
Employer seems to be trying to get out of paying this as they’ve discovered they owe over £1k in holiday pay.
Company didn’t explicitly say do not communicate this as a matter of confidentiality when giving notice of redundancy but are implying that their contract and employee handbook covers this divulgence of confidential info. This is a business of about 5 employees and the handbook is over 80 pages long. I work for a large multinational and mine isn’t anywhere near that long. The only instruction was discus with family but don’t tell the volunteers as the company are looking at suitable way to break the news.
Friend didn’t discus with the volunteers, discussed with a friend about getting another job who then talked to someone else about it who then spoke to a couple of the volunteers and from there mentions of redundancy’s came up. The volunteers mentioned this to bosses as apparently concerned and named two employees they thought would be made redundant (2 employees not actually getting made redundant which is the confusing part as even if my friend had inadvertently mentioned redundancy to someone outside the business they’d have known who was being made redundant (just themselves) so some Chinese whispers at best seem to be the only evidence they have to go on and they haven’t even spoke to the person my friend allegedly told as part of the investigation.
Hope all that makes sense. To be clear the disciplinary letter didn’t mention any possible outcome including gross misconduct and simply refers to company handbook on disciplinary procedure.
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