Can my employer Do this?

[usn90]

Hi

I’ve worked for my current employer since October 2017, on full time contracted hours 07:30-17:30

After a conference cal today they are changing this to 17:00- 02:30, no additional pay, not that I would accept it anyway as those hours aren’t possible for me due to the fact my partner works nights which would leave my 4 and 8 year old alone.

The purpose of the change they said is business productivity, which in my circumstance is complete B.S, the department I work for has a few different make ups, I am the only one in the company for my role, a lot of people are staying on the normal hours.

So I cannot work the new hours, where does that leave me, can they just remove me?

[usn90]

My contract states my current hours, however it also says “your amount of hours or times may be changed to suit business demands”, or to that effect

straight after the conference I emailed those concerned detailing why I cannot do the new times, and why it makes no sense for my role.
I also spoke to my boss who said he was surprised I was part of the reshuffle and wholeheartedly agrees with everything I said.

So hope I get to remain in my hours, there’s zero chance of me moving to a nightshift

[usn90]

Jasandjules said:

For the avoidance of doubt you have effectively gone from working during the day to working at night?

The key question is what are you willing to do about it?

That’s what they are telling me yes, this comes into affect 2 weeks from the 1/7

Well I am not doing it, I simply can’t.

I have written an email to them stating why I can’t, and also why it is detrimental to my role working such hours, which is all factual, I copied my manager into the email and he replied back saying he agrees with everything I have said.

So basically come the 15th I will be coming in at my normal hours regardless

[usn90]

I understand the cutting nose of side of things, but the simple matter is I’d need to leave my kids home alone to make the shifts, which obviously isn’t happening.

by the sounds of things everyone is refusing, if they stick to their guns or not is another matter but in my case I have to.

[usn90]

Had a call today and reading between the lines it’s looking more likely that they won’t be accommodating me, although will know more over the next week or so.

Does anyone have any further info on the unfair/ constructive dismissal and the likelihood this would work out for me in my case, obviously if it gets that far then my days are numbered anyway, although any financial compensation at the present time would be life saving

[usn90]

edc said:

Have you made a formal request for flexible working? It night be moot now but at least it will be on record.

When it comes to constructive unfair dismissal, you have to leave as the breach is so fundamental. That then leaves you in the scenario of no job of course. You could also wait to be pushed and potentially claim unfair dismissal. Whether you do either will depend on the prospect of success and the potential value of a claim. Don't underestimate the time emotion and effort that goes into such a claim. Your effort might be better spent securing a new role. By the time your case comes around you would hope to be in a new role as it will be months until it is heard and even then no guarantee of a hearing. The company could attempt to settle, but again any settlement payment will be measured against their view of how successfully they can defend the case and how tight they have been in the execution of the procedures.

I haven’t,

Obviously I was/am hoping that they allow me to remain on my current hours, considering I can’t work the new hours their decision is more in the lines of Whether I have a job with them or not.

So in the event they do not accommodate me, I should leave on the spot for constructive dismissal, but if I was to refuse the change and continue to work my normal hours I could claim unfair dismissal if I’m pushed out?

I was having a look before and the claim for constructive dismissal is up-to 52 weeks wages

[usn90]

I’m male

My partner already works nights, So your implying I pay for a sitter between 18:30-03:00 5 days a week with no additional pay?

Nearest relative is 90 minutes away and why would they want to commit to helping out during those hours every day?

[usn90]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I did. What part of his post prevents him arranging childcare?

My partner already works nights, So your implying I pay for a sitter between 18:30-03:00 5 days a week with no additional pay?

Nearest relative is 90 minutes away and why would they want to commit to helping out during those hours every day?

[usn90]

Monkeylegend said:

Just out of interest OP what happened to the new job you said you were offered early June, did you turn that down?

Is that a possible option for you?

I lost out on that job due to me gaining 3 points on my up until then clean licence

[usn90]

Ok so update

Had a change of contract document through which I need to agree to by Wednesday.

My hours haven’t changed, thankfully, so I’m unsure why I need to agree to this because as far as I know nothing’s changed.

I took advice from an employment specialist who basically said I would be able to take them to tribunal.

I’m a little wary of this document I have to sign, because at the bottom it states “please note, your shift pattern may have to change in future, the company will discuss this with you if this is a requirement”

I’m not sure if that statement is just a generic thing or whether or not i will be agreeing to that term if I sign??

I asked the solicitor but they want £500 + vat to give me the advice.

[usn90]

Not as of yet, I was only sent the docs just before finishing time Friday,Will be sending an email this weekend.

Im not sure what the consequence is if I don’t sign, I really don’t want to rock the boat incase they backtrack on the hour’s, but at the same time I’m cautious about that statement incase it’s a Trojans horse.

I may be overly paranoid and way of the mark but would like to cover myself at least, just need to do it without creating a big wave!

[usn90]

C4ME said:

To clarify, are you saying that the proposed change in hours to 17:00 - 02:30 have been dropped but they are asking you to sign a contract that gives them the right to change your shift hours in future if they wish?

Edited by C4ME on Saturday 18th July 22:23

Well this is what I’m unsure about, as far as I’m concerned my contract never changed to the night shift, so I don’t see why I’m being asked to “Sign and change” back to my original hours, the fact that statement is on the document I’m being asked to sign has me a little paranoid

[usn90]

C4ME said:

From your earlier posts I believe you have said your current contract specifies 07:30 - 17:00 (you posted - "My contract states my current hours, however it also says 'your amount of hours or times may be changed to suit business demands', or to that effect").

You really need to understand in detail what your current contract says on

1/ The times and hours you are expected to work.
2/ The terms under which they can be changed.

You will then need to compare it to what your new contract says on the same two things.

My current contract

Stated in offer letter:
Your hours of work will be based on a normal working week of 07:30-17:00, however due to the nature of this position you may be required to work additional hours to fulfil your responsibility’s, extra payments will be made at your normal hourly rate for this additional time

Stated in contract
“Your normal hours of work are set out in your offer letter (which I have and are the mentioned times) however, your normal hours of work may vary , depending on departmental or local requirements

Will check on the new terms

[usn90]

2gins said:

At the very least you want them to confirm in writing that you will have continuous service from the originsl start date in 2017 because if they want to reset the clock with this contract, you'll need another 2 years service before you get proper redundancy rights etc. You have thst now, keep it.

Good advice thanks

[usn90]

Ok so I emailed HR, along the lines of the following

1- why I need to sign considering there no change

2- is the statement about changing hours generic or a change of terms

3. Continuous service

Response

“Thanks for your email.

Although there is no change to your shift pattern we ask that you tick to agree that you have read this letter as confirmation of your shift pattern moving forwards. Your service will be continuous and there are no other changes to your terms and conditions.

If there are any further changes to shift patterns required in the future then we will discuss that with you at the time.”


It doesn’t exactly state if the statement was generic but it does say there are no other changes to your T&C’s. I don’t know why they felt the need to repeat the statement though.

So I think I’m ok to agree seen as I have the above in writing?

[usn90]

The document states “tick the box to agree to the changes”

Whereas in the email, it states

“tick to confirm you’ve read the letter”

I was thinking of replying with this

“Thank you for getting back to me, I really don’t feel comfortable ticking the letter as there is no changes to my shift pattern, but I can confirm that I have read the letter and understand that there is no change to my terms and conditions.”

What do you think?