Getting a cscs card

[scottyp123]

Whats the best way of going about this? for years I've avoided site work and to be fair I'm still not interested in doing it, there are far too many rules and regulations to be bothered with and too many little hitlers running around for me. However we have started doing work for an electrician we know but in order to get on the type of sites he works on apparently we need one of these cards. We have always blagged it to get on before and when its to repair something urgent the question "look do you wan't it fixing or not?" usually get the right response.

I know as electricians we should have an ECS card but that seems like far too much trouble to be going to for the reward involved and I'd rather not bother if that's the case but apparently because we are working with him as helpers we just need the labourers one to get on.

So in short what we need is the least amount of hassle to be able to get on the site, whether its a blag or not I'm not really bothered. I've looked at various sites and its all rather confusing really. You need to apply for a green card that costs £35 but to do that you need a health and safety environment cert which costs £21, I take it this is an exam that you have to pass but for £21 you won't get any training I suppose. There are other sites that offer training for £100 or so but they are unclear whether you get the necessary cert at the end of it and may still have to take the test independently.

My next question is is a training course necessary? or are the questions multiple choice type ones where the wrong answers are so idiotically stupid its practically impossible to fail. I class myself as fairly intelligent but this seems far from straight forward to work out but that can't be because some of the people who are actually working on site don't have a collective brain cell between the lot of them sometimes, it would be a miracle if anyone knew what day it was half the time.

• I know I might come across as a bit of an arse about all this H&S bks but I really don't like intrusion into my life, especially not when its state sponsored intrusion, I'm practically 50 years old and I've managed to get this far in life without any disasters.

[scottyp123]

I think I may have answered one of my own questions. From a mock test:-

15. What should you do if you find pigeon droppings and nests in an area where you are required to work? Give one answer
A Carry on with your work carefully, so you don't disturb them
B Stop work and seek advice
C Try to catch the pigeons
D Wait for the pigeons to fly away before carrying on with your work

Try to catch the pigeons, WTF, that's the most stupid possible answer you could possibly have, what pray tell do you do with the pigeons once you have caught them. How can I not be allowed on site when someone who might give this answer is?

[scottyp123]

All I've got is the 17th and the 2391 inspection and testing. I've never gone the apprentice route with college and all that, I started to be interested in electrics as a kid and apparently could put a plug on perfectly when I was 5, I re-wired my first house when I was about 22 and thought that was really easy to do so got a job as an electrician with a small firm shortly afterwards and winged it until I was up to speed with all the latest regs.

Within a year the QM had left and the company needed a new one so due to the fact that I was the only one that worked there that had enough intelligence to pass any exams my boss sent me on the 16th and 2391 courses which I passed first time and was then the QM for about 5 years before leaving to go self employed.

I've only bothered passing the 17th as it was a requirement to be in ELECSA and now we are in STROMA they are pushing for the 18th so I suppose I've got to do that next.

[scottyp123]

Robb F said:

scottyp123 said:

• I know I might come across as a bit of an arse about all this H&S bks but I really don't like intrusion into my life, especially not when its state sponsored intrusion, I'm practically 50 years old and I've managed to get this far in life without any disasters.

Looks like the CSCS scheme is working exactly as intended then

I don't follow, I've never had any sort of training on anything about how to not kill or injure myself just used common sense, although plenty of people that do work on sites that have sat training courses and exams have managed to wipe themselves out, youtube is full of darwin candidates on building sites.

[scottyp123]

Mr Pointy said:

Do you have one of the relevant qualifications listed here:

https://www.ecscard.org.uk/card-types/Electrotechn...
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/getmedia/658dc0f5-3bfa-...

If so all you need is to pass the ECS H&S test:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Health,-Safety-...

Which should be free if you use their reccommended companies:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Venues
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Open-Assessment...

Then just do a bit of reading:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Preparation-and...

This is the guide & the questions you can be asked:
https://ecsprodstorkentico.blob.core.windows.net/e...

Judge for yourself how hard the test is. Frankly if you can't get 100% you shouldn't be allowed out alone.

In summary it's no more difficult to get the right ECS card than the wrong general labourer's CSCS one & you won't risk getting punted off site.

I'm not so sure about that, some of the questions have stupid answers, one was based on electrics, the question was along the lines of how do you make sure the RCD is working correctly, apart from 2 stupid possible answers the other two were press the test button or use a test meter. The correc answer according to the mock exam was use the test button, I'm sorry but that is total bks, the test button only shows that the mechanical trip is working properly, it won't show how fast it trips or at what current, it also won't show if the RCD has been bypassed inside, the in and out connections could both be bodged into one set of terminals, especially if the tool is indeed faulty.

What I have noticed about the questions is out of 4 possible answers, one has nothing at all to do with the question, another is so ridiculous you would have to be stupid to tick it, the third answer is the correct one that you write down to pass the test and the fourth answer is the thing you actually do in reality.

[scottyp123]

Yazza54 said:

If you're just going to get the basic CSCS it's very easy, even the managers one I have was a piece of piss. You need to do some online training or buy a book, although the questions on the multiple choice exam are mostly very obvious/bordering on stupid. Then just book in to visit a test centre and do the test, they're usually at the kind of places you'd do a driving theory test.

I would make sure you get the right card though, not just the cheapest or easiest to obtain. I don't know what main contractors you've been working for to get by all this time without one but all the proper outfits will flat out refuse you entry into site without one (the right one) from my experience.

Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 11th July 08:28

That's great though if you are a roofer, joiner, plumber, plasterer etc. etc. you just pop down to the nearest test centre, do a quick exam and get the card but for electricians and it only seems to be electricians you need to do several years in college, pas multiple exams, work for years with an approved firm, join the JIB and only then can you get the electricians version of the CSCS card which is called an ECS card and then there are different versions of it, gold card, technician etc.

And this is the reason I find it all so strange, the type of electrician who works on site is generally rough as fk, I've seen some right shoddy jobs on new build houses, they don't get paid enough to do a proper job so leave things out like clips or capping so you have cables snaking about behind the walls, badly or wrongly made off sockets and switches. A girl called Emma Shaw was killed just recently by bad electrics in a new build apartment. So it begs the question, if the electrician has spent years getting all those qualifications he must obviously be good at his job so why would he lower himself to do shoddy work like this?

As for the sites we go on, they aren't big site like a tower block going up or a site with 500 houses, I would never work on a site like that. They tend to be refurbs of say an old nursing home or a conversion of a big old house into apartments, sometimes we are the only ones on site, its just that they have changed their policy recently and now require a CSCS card to continue working for them, we did loads of jobs for them a couple of years ago but the interim firm we were working for managed to go bust so we didn't do anything for the main contractor for a year or so.

[scottyp123]

Mr Pointy said:

scottyp123 said:

That's great though if you are a roofer, joiner, plumber, plasterer etc. etc. you just pop down to the nearest test centre, do a quick exam and get the card but for electricians and it only seems to be electricians you need to do several years in college, pas multiple exams, work for years with an approved firm, join the JIB and only then can you get the electricians version of the CSCS card which is called an ECS card and then there are different versions of it, gold card, technician etc.

And this is the reason I find it all so strange, the type of electrician who works on site is generally rough as fk, I've seen some right shoddy jobs on new build houses, they don't get paid enough to do a proper job so leave things out like clips or capping so you have cables snaking about behind the walls, badly or wrongly made off sockets and switches. A girl called Emma Shaw was killed just recently by bad electrics in a new build apartment. So it begs the question, if the electrician has spent years getting all those qualifications he must obviously be good at his job so why would he lower himself to do shoddy work like this?

As for the sites we go on, they aren't big site like a tower block going up or a site with 500 houses, I would never work on a site like that. They tend to be refurbs of say an old nursing home or a conversion of a big old house into apartments, sometimes we are the only ones on site, its just that they have changed their policy recently and now require a CSCS card to continue working for them, we did loads of jobs for them a couple of years ago but the interim firm we were working for managed to go bust so we didn't do anything for the main contractor for a year or so.

There was a route via the Mature Candidate Assessment but it looks like that's been closed this summer. This page list a number of places you can contact who may be able to advise the best route for you to be able to get an ECS card:
https://www.ecscard.org.uk/content/Providers-Matur...

It's pretty clear you're going to have to do the 18th Edition though so maybe crack on with that first?

The whole idea though is to get back on site in the next couple of weeks, I'm not interested in any sort of long term thing, I hope to knock it all on the head and retire in 10 years maximum. That's if I last that long, can't see me crawling about in lofts for that much longer anyway with my back and knees. I could just as easily walk away now to be honest and buy another couple of run down houses to do up whilst I'm still able to so I definitely wont be sinking anything long term into an ECS card.

This is why I'm only interested in going for the cheapest and easiest route to get something that I can flash at the site manager to get back on. If anyone knows of someone that forges them then that would be even better.

[scottyp123]

megaphone said:

You can't just go and do the test and get a green 'labourer' card, you also need to have a couple of qualifications even for that. Here is a link for the list of cards and what is required.

https://www.cscs.uk.com/applying-for-cards/types-o...

Card Requirements
You can apply for this card if you have either:
Completed the RQF Level 1/SCQF Level 4 Award in Health and Safety in a Construction Environment
Completed the SCQF Level 5 REHIS Elementary Health and Safety Certificate.
To find out how to take these qualifications contact your local college of further education, training centre or Jobcentre Plus. You can see a full list of awarding bodies offering this qualification here. They will advise you about training and assessment availability, pricing and whether funding is available.
All applicants must pass the CITB Health, Safety and Environment test
This card is valid for five years.

Thanks,that's the info I've been after all along, so you cant just do the CITB test and then order a green card, you have to complete another course as well and that's about £150. It all seems like too much trouble to be honest, I'll talk to my business partner on Monday about it but for me its a no, its so much easier to do private work like re-wires in houses where you can turn up in shorts and trainers to work rather than all this nonsense. Thanks for all the help from everyone.

[scottyp123]

Just to add, that crane collapse was caused by a failed pad that it was sat on, AvE has done a video on it.

[scottyp123]

We are getting mithered to death to go back on site and have been offered 2 months work so we have finally relented and booked on an all in one course for sometime next week. Its only a 1 day course but I would imagine I'm going to find it really difficult to bite my lip when some of the safety "facts" are taught to us. On the plus side lunch is provided as part of the deal, its the only thing I'm looking forward to.

[scottyp123]

megaphone said:

Which card are you going for?

Just the labourer one, totally pointless but the sites we go on only wanted this one, its just a tick box exercise for them. We are only subbying for the main electrician so I suppose we are his labourers anyway, I doubt we will get the easy parts of the job to do.

[scottyp123]

fiju said:

Basic cscs card is a piece of piss to obtain. If you're struggling with that then you shouldn't be anywhere near a site.
There's a difference between electricians and house bashers. One's actually gone through an apprenticeship and gained qualifications, the other just claims to be an electrician

From what I've seen its a raft of qualifications, new snickers trousers and a belt of many screwdrivers but can't connect a 2-way up correctly or chop a box in neatly to save their life. On the other hand you have a 50 year old spark who is unqualified but can find a fault in 10 minutes where as the previous 5 sparks didn't have a scooby doo.

[scottyp123]

Zarco said:

Doesn't normally take a day course to get that card.

Clearly a special case

You need some sort of qualification in H&S before you can sit the multiple choice CITB exam and its the qualification that takes most of the day up, you have to listen to several hours of dross before you can pass. (and pay £206 each)

So there smart arse.