Change job or not? Advice needed
Discussion
Hello all,
Having read this forum for a while, I thought it might be a good place to ask this as time is of the essence with this one, and I'm not 100% sure what to do.
I will be totally frank here, so please excuse the way I write about my current role. You can add any comments you like. I won't be offended
I have just been offered a new job, at a different place of work. I went for an interview a week or so ago, and to my surprise, they have called and offered. I have asked if I can consider their offer for a couple of days as I am really not sure what to do. They said no problem, take your time, as they want me to be sure it is right, presumably so I don't take it, then just leave 12 months later.
My current job is a bit unusual:
I have a fairly meaningless job title of 'Business transformation and development' and I am paid £74k. I have worked here for 4 years. The job really isn't difficult at all. I spend most of my time working from home, and 1-2 days per week in our London office. We do not have working hours, and my boss does not care where I am or what I'm doing as long as I meet my objectives. I can just randomly have the morning off if I feel like it, and catch up via a couple of hours later in the day. That sort of thing.
Most of my work revolves around being an advisor for my boss, who is a Director. I suggest improvements and things we could change to make the business run better, I write reports for him, I attend Executive meetings and Board meetings, and put forward proposals, assist with the management of the 220 staff below us, and so on.
I kid you not, some weeks I have very little to do, by that I mean almost nothing. Some weeks there is a flurry of activity and we get a load of big things done and signed off, but other than that, it is just reacting to things that crop up.
My boss is absolutely brilliant. Me and him get on like a house on fire, and he is very easy to work with. We love going for a pint after work and have a proper laugh. He often suggests we simply bunk off work in an afternoon to go for food and drinks and chat about stuff. Some days we go and play crazy golf or something silly like that.
Don't get me wrong, we do some great work, and the Board is happy with our division of the business, and we have made loads of improvements and good investments over the last few years, but a lot of the time it feels more like a bunch of mates mucking about. To get into this position, I really had to work hard and prove myself, but now that I'm here, it feels like I'm part of the Directors/Execs as they treat me like one of their own, and it's more of a case of just deciding what to do, and asking those below me to carry out the tasks.
I get a really great pension scheme, and various other benefits.
Bad points about my current work: The meaningless job title, and I can't see myself progressing unless my boss leaves which he won't.
The new job:
A chunky step up in money to £89k which would be nice to have, and the title is a clear cut one of Assistant Director. Similar sector but looking at a the structure, and how the interview discussion went, there is more scope to move up or around to different positions. The title of AD is also easily recognised, will look good on my CV, and may lead me to progressing to a higher position elsewhere if I want to push on.
My worries are that from reading the job description, and from the interview, they want their pound of flesh as you would expect for £89k. The list of responsibilities and targets is quite daunting. My number of direct reports would increase significantly as well. They seemed nice people at interview, and they offer hybrid working, but it seems a bit less flexible than what I'm used to.
I'm really not sure what to do. I would like more money, a better title for my CV, and I also would enjoy more responsibility, but I worry that I'm on a good thing at the moment and will regret the move to something where they really expect me to deliver strongly or GTFO.
Anyone been in this position?
Edited to add - on paper the actual job description is very very similar to what I do now. But just felt it seems a lot more strict and demanding of that makes sense? But nothing the new role would be asking is outside my comfort zone in terms of experience.
Having read this forum for a while, I thought it might be a good place to ask this as time is of the essence with this one, and I'm not 100% sure what to do.
I will be totally frank here, so please excuse the way I write about my current role. You can add any comments you like. I won't be offended
I have just been offered a new job, at a different place of work. I went for an interview a week or so ago, and to my surprise, they have called and offered. I have asked if I can consider their offer for a couple of days as I am really not sure what to do. They said no problem, take your time, as they want me to be sure it is right, presumably so I don't take it, then just leave 12 months later.
My current job is a bit unusual:
I have a fairly meaningless job title of 'Business transformation and development' and I am paid £74k. I have worked here for 4 years. The job really isn't difficult at all. I spend most of my time working from home, and 1-2 days per week in our London office. We do not have working hours, and my boss does not care where I am or what I'm doing as long as I meet my objectives. I can just randomly have the morning off if I feel like it, and catch up via a couple of hours later in the day. That sort of thing.
Most of my work revolves around being an advisor for my boss, who is a Director. I suggest improvements and things we could change to make the business run better, I write reports for him, I attend Executive meetings and Board meetings, and put forward proposals, assist with the management of the 220 staff below us, and so on.
I kid you not, some weeks I have very little to do, by that I mean almost nothing. Some weeks there is a flurry of activity and we get a load of big things done and signed off, but other than that, it is just reacting to things that crop up.
My boss is absolutely brilliant. Me and him get on like a house on fire, and he is very easy to work with. We love going for a pint after work and have a proper laugh. He often suggests we simply bunk off work in an afternoon to go for food and drinks and chat about stuff. Some days we go and play crazy golf or something silly like that.
Don't get me wrong, we do some great work, and the Board is happy with our division of the business, and we have made loads of improvements and good investments over the last few years, but a lot of the time it feels more like a bunch of mates mucking about. To get into this position, I really had to work hard and prove myself, but now that I'm here, it feels like I'm part of the Directors/Execs as they treat me like one of their own, and it's more of a case of just deciding what to do, and asking those below me to carry out the tasks.
I get a really great pension scheme, and various other benefits.
Bad points about my current work: The meaningless job title, and I can't see myself progressing unless my boss leaves which he won't.
The new job:
A chunky step up in money to £89k which would be nice to have, and the title is a clear cut one of Assistant Director. Similar sector but looking at a the structure, and how the interview discussion went, there is more scope to move up or around to different positions. The title of AD is also easily recognised, will look good on my CV, and may lead me to progressing to a higher position elsewhere if I want to push on.
My worries are that from reading the job description, and from the interview, they want their pound of flesh as you would expect for £89k. The list of responsibilities and targets is quite daunting. My number of direct reports would increase significantly as well. They seemed nice people at interview, and they offer hybrid working, but it seems a bit less flexible than what I'm used to.
I'm really not sure what to do. I would like more money, a better title for my CV, and I also would enjoy more responsibility, but I worry that I'm on a good thing at the moment and will regret the move to something where they really expect me to deliver strongly or GTFO.
Anyone been in this position?
Edited to add - on paper the actual job description is very very similar to what I do now. But just felt it seems a lot more strict and demanding of that makes sense? But nothing the new role would be asking is outside my comfort zone in terms of experience.
Edited by Goldman Sachs on Wednesday 10th April 10:52
essayer said:
You don't get many opportunities like this in life. More money and a better title? Of course they'll want more from you. I'd take it.
No offence at all! I'm well aware this is what is happening. You are totally right, I got really comfortable. He looks after me really well as he doesn't want me to leave as he knows what difficulties it might mean for him in replacing me.Goldman Sachs said:
Most of my work revolves around being an advisor for my boss, who is a Director. I suggest improvements and things we could change to make the business run better, I write reports for him, I attend Executive meetings and Board meetings, and put forward proposals, assist with the management of the staff below us, and so on.
I read this as 'I'm doing my boss's job for him but not getting the salary or the recognition'. (No offence - I'm in the same position!). Easy to get comfortable doing this, but you won't be doing your career any favours...You are right again about it not doing my career any favours. Which is why I applied for this other job, just to see what might happen.
worsy said:
Age and plans for retirement?
If I was 55 and thinking 5 more years I'd stick, if I was 35 and looking to grow my career, I'd move.
I'm 40.If I was 55 and thinking 5 more years I'd stick, if I was 35 and looking to grow my career, I'd move.
No plans for retirement yet. Pension is just what I've built up over the years from working so far and isnt bad as I've always had reasonable to good pension schemes. It's nothing mind blowing though.
We live in a really nice 4 bed house and our mortgage is almost paid off. Probably be mortgage free in a couple of years as we are chucking money at it. This is mostly due to us making some smart property moves over the years, and doing a couple of big renovation projects ourselves to move up the ladder faster for less money.
Wife earns £54k.
This is partly why I'm not immediately jumping at the new job and more money. After tax our household income is around £8200 a month which feels a lot to us, and we generally have a couple of thousand, or more, spare each month, and save it all up then put into high interest accounts and/or throw it at the mortgage.
But, I do want to progress and more money is usually better.
loskie said:
Do you do any voluntary work?
Maybe keep your current job but add to your stimulation and feeling of worth by using your skills volunteering for stuff (Mentoring?). You may even find your current employer gives paid time off for this as it's good for the company too.
Nope, don't do any voluntary work. I have a young child that keeps me busy! ha ha!Maybe keep your current job but add to your stimulation and feeling of worth by using your skills volunteering for stuff (Mentoring?). You may even find your current employer gives paid time off for this as it's good for the company too.
I do quite a bit of mentoring at work, which I have really enjoyed.
borcy said:
Sounds you fancy a move but I don't think this one is right one.
I don't understand the thing about your job title? Is this some weird industry specific thing?
The job title was just made up as they couldn't think of anything else to call the position. When they hired me, they made the role up specially for me as the new AD (my boss) wanted an assistant that knew more about the sector than he did, so I could advise him and help improve the business. I don't understand the thing about your job title? Is this some weird industry specific thing?
I was already known to the business as I had worked with them whilst on a project at my last employer. They approached me and made me an offer.
The weird job title and slightly hard to define role is what worries me and what made me apply for something else just to test the water. If I had a recognised position like AD, then things would be clearer to others.
I feel a bit like George Clooney's character in Michael Clayton where no one really knows what he does, and the only way of describing him is as 'a fixer' where he just goes round the business getting deals done and helping with stuff.
Edited by Goldman Sachs on Wednesday 10th April 13:00
lizardbrain said:
I've never regretted getting a new job. (that you stick with)
Neither have I. But there is a first time for everything I suppose.
varsas said:
I would usually advise you to stay but when I was ina similar position to you and got the chance to move up I did. A few months later my boss left to form his own company and the department got split up and it's all changed. My point is, even if you stay where you are will the job/boss and structures remain the same? Especially if you don't have children (I do, which made the decision to stay in my safe/happy job even more biased towards staying) I would say go. Take the new job, put the money towards retiering earlier.
This is a really good point about my boss leaving or structures changing. He sometimes has a moan about the pressure put on him as an AD to please the MD and the Board etc. He feels some of the heat due to being in the position he is in. So do I in my position, but not as much as him. I've head him complain a couple of times about wanting to leave when the going gets tough, but we've always come through it, improved, changed, moved on. So yes, he may well leave at some point. The company may also decide to change or restructure. It is all possible.
Big thank you to everyone who replied. You have all given me so much to think about.
Stay:
Pros:
I enjoy my job and know what is expected of me.
I enjoy the flexibility
Get on well with those above me.
Cons:
Potentially stuck on the same salary apart from yearly CPI type rises.
Potentially stuck on the same job title.
Boss might leave, or department gets restructured - then it would be all change.
Might get bored.
Change:
Pros:
More money
New challenge
Better title (with a slightly bigger and more respected organisation)
Cons:
Probably less flexibility
Higher workload and demands
Stay:
Pros:
I enjoy my job and know what is expected of me.
I enjoy the flexibility
Get on well with those above me.
Cons:
Potentially stuck on the same salary apart from yearly CPI type rises.
Potentially stuck on the same job title.
Boss might leave, or department gets restructured - then it would be all change.
Might get bored.
Change:
Pros:
More money
New challenge
Better title (with a slightly bigger and more respected organisation)
Cons:
Probably less flexibility
Higher workload and demands
Pistom said:
Seems to me that deep down you want to stay.
Is there no option to negotiate a rise and change job title?
It's not the title or the money that would make me move - it's the fact that you're not actually doing anything worthwhile other than filling your day and taking the pay.
If you're happy with that then stay but personally, I don't think either of the 2 jobs are what I'd want to be spending my days doing.
I think the decision is so hard for you as inside, you know you're wasting your life away with either option.
I'd be looking for a 3rd option and carry on treading water whilst doing so.
Yes, possibly could negotiate a rise, but the business has tried to cut back on various things over the last 12 months due to increased costs and so on. This leads me to believe I may get knocked back. I can only try.Is there no option to negotiate a rise and change job title?
It's not the title or the money that would make me move - it's the fact that you're not actually doing anything worthwhile other than filling your day and taking the pay.
If you're happy with that then stay but personally, I don't think either of the 2 jobs are what I'd want to be spending my days doing.
I think the decision is so hard for you as inside, you know you're wasting your life away with either option.
I'd be looking for a 3rd option and carry on treading water whilst doing so.
On the point about wasting my life away, I think you have kind of hit the nail on the head. I know deep down this current role is just temporary, and will probably only last as long as my boss stays in place and keeps needing me to assist him. After that, I suspect it's all over as there isn't that many other positions in the business I fancy, or if they fancy me for them.
I also know this next role is probably just temporary or stepping stone to something else. It feels like that already, even though I haven't accepted it.
I don't feel any kind of permanent attraction to either role, and just keep wondering where things will finally end up in my career.
I suppose 'wasting your life' is quite a strong phase to use. I mean, I enjoy my job and I think I'm fairly well paid compared to the vast majority of people out there. I just did an online calculator and our after-tax household income puts us in the top 5% of the UK population which is a hugely sobering thought, and not something I had thought about. Try to be grateful I guess.
But yeah wasting my life on jobs I have no idea where they might go is an interesting thought.
loskie said:
I'm always quite critical of folks wowed by a "job title" we have several where I work
The thing is, I don't really give as stuff what I'm called, from my perspective, and when this weird title was made up for me, I just laughed about it and said they could call me whatever they wanted.The only reason I now consider it to be a slight issue is how other employers might view it. Like many on this thread, others in the industry have already jokingly commented on my titled as in 'WTF does that mean?' and I'm just trying to protect my CV slightly, however odd that sounds.
Someotherusername said:
Just wanted to say there’s a lot of similarities in our situations, except I’m now unemployed. Be careful, whilst your boss might value the fact you’re carrying a lot of their job for them, if times get tough your role is the one at risk in my view.
If I was you I’d take the new job, be happy you had a good run and a relatively easy ride, and crack on.
A couple of people have made similar points, and I completely get where they are coming from. When people start to seek cost cuttings, my role would be very carefully examined, and I guess there would be pushback onto my boss for having me as what is basically an advisor and assistant, despite the fact that I do personally deliver some quite big projects for the business. If I was you I’d take the new job, be happy you had a good run and a relatively easy ride, and crack on.
Update:
I have decided to not accept the offer of the new job.
I have politely declined it. They were a bit disappointed but understood my reasons why I wanted to stay where I was at - flexibility, working hours, enjoy the current job, etc.
As posters have said, it’s less than £145 a week increase after tax, and I do have a really good arrangement at the moment which works very well given that I have a young kid.
I have decided to not accept the offer of the new job.
I have politely declined it. They were a bit disappointed but understood my reasons why I wanted to stay where I was at - flexibility, working hours, enjoy the current job, etc.
As posters have said, it’s less than £145 a week increase after tax, and I do have a really good arrangement at the moment which works very well given that I have a young kid.
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