Gross Misconduct?
Discussion
First off, it's not me. I'm wise enough to not open my mouth on "private" whatsapp groups.
On a WhatsApp group with a fair few people from work and a few guys have slagged off the top manager that runs the site. Stuff like "hope he gets knob rot".
Someone took screenshots and sent them to him.
First one got suspended and has now been sacked. The second one got suspended last night and going by that precedence he could be looking at getting sacked too.
My question, if it is one, is that enough for a sackable offence and not just a written warning? Feels like alot to go straight to sacking.
On a WhatsApp group with a fair few people from work and a few guys have slagged off the top manager that runs the site. Stuff like "hope he gets knob rot".
Someone took screenshots and sent them to him.
First one got suspended and has now been sacked. The second one got suspended last night and going by that precedence he could be looking at getting sacked too.
My question, if it is one, is that enough for a sackable offence and not just a written warning? Feels like alot to go straight to sacking.
Mr Penguin said:
If they have been there for less than two years then they can be dismissed for any reason that isn't a protected one (race, sex, union etc).
It probably also depends on the context and whether "I hope he gets knob rot" is one of the better messages or one of the worst.
He may also have been on a warning already which could tip it over.
Both over 2 years. I don't know about the first one warning wise but the second one isn't on anything.It probably also depends on the context and whether "I hope he gets knob rot" is one of the better messages or one of the worst.
He may also have been on a warning already which could tip it over.
The one that got suspended last night went like this, slightly different to what I remembered.
3rd person "f
k em and hope they get knob rot" (this is talking about another random person not the top manager).Guy that got suspended replied "gob rot from John's cock" ("John" being the top manager).
At the minute he only seems bothered when it's a personal attack, as nothing has happened to that 3rd person (although that 3rd person is only the level below the top manager and not a general dogs body like the rest of us).
Yes it's all a bit childish and yes this is a billion £ global company.
Car bon said:
I'd be seeking legal advice. You don't have to like your manager, so depends exactly what was written....
Exactly what was written is in my post above. When they pulled him in a few nights ago it was just the screen shot of that they showed him and grilled him over and he just said no comment for the whole thing. They didn't allow him to get a union rep there, just 10 mins to find a witness to have in with him._DJ_ said:
Were the comments made using a corporate mobile phone? Do the company have a policy on using WhatsApp? Were they made inside or outside of working hours.
WhatsApp is really difficult to police as an employer. I guess they probably haven't adequately covered themselves here, and this will be very difficult to enforce legally.
Private phone and not an official WhatsApp group but work related as it only has work people in it. Outside office hours.WhatsApp is really difficult to police as an employer. I guess they probably haven't adequately covered themselves here, and this will be very difficult to enforce legally.
I don't know if there's a WhatsApp policy but I imagine our company has a social media policy which they may have WhatsApp come under.
Jasandjules said:
You noted one example, from that I presume there are multiple examples?
I presume they have deemed this Gross Misconduct? Rather than a dismissal following other issues/warnings etc on record?
I don't know the first ones record but the guy the other night has a good record and this one comment has been singled out. He's currently just suspended pending investigation.I presume they have deemed this Gross Misconduct? Rather than a dismissal following other issues/warnings etc on record?
Edited by Jasandjules on Saturday 13th April 12:05
paddy1970 said:
Disparaging comments about management, especially those shared publicly or among colleagues, is usually considered serious misconduct, justifying dismissal.
If that's the norm then so be it! Thankfully I have a bit more sense than to write thoughts down onto groups with about 40 people on!paulrockliffe said:
paddy1970 said:
Disparaging comments about management, especially those shared publicly or among colleagues, is usually considered serious misconduct, justifying dismissal.
I ran the OP past my wife, who is a very experienced employment lawyer, and her advice was the opposite of this. High risk that the dismissal would be found to be unfair.
The first ones Appeal is next week and obviously a waiting game for the second.
I'll update the thread when more riveting information appears.
Mr Penguin said:
Hondashark said:
Exactly what was written is in my post above. When they pulled him in a few nights ago it was just the screen shot of that they showed him and grilled him over and he just said no comment for the whole thing. They didn't allow him to get a union rep there, just 10 mins to find a witness to have in with him.
He has a legal right to a union rep but you haven't said what the context is or what led to them saying this or what other similar messages were sent or how many others were piling in.Hondashark said:
I don't know the first ones record but the guy the other night has a good record and this one comment has been singled out. He's currently just suspended pending investigation.
How do you know he has a good record and hasn't done something that has got him into trouble without you hearing about it?The whatsapp groups doesn't have all employees in, it's a union group so only those in the union. They are talking about someone else, not a manager but the only comment that has been highlighted is the one that references the top manager. It's the only screenshot brought up in the meeting and the only thing he was trying to get him to admit to saying.
I know this guy very well, also know the witness well as I started on the same day as him. And I also know the union reps and his direct manager well.
Secrets don't get kept in this place!
If there was more risky stuff that had gone off I wouldn't really be questioning anything! It just the fact they called the boss a bad name that's gone straight to sacking that's amazed me, I thought there were other steps that had to be gone through. It'll all come out in the wash though, or they'll get their jobs back/compensation.
Mr Penguin said:
So what was said in the 10-20 messages before this was said or the justification for saying it at that time? I struggle to believe that someone would say that out of the blue without any immediate reason. More likely it was a long conversation with people complaining or the manager said or did something to him that day.
There was suspicions that there was someone within the union whatsapp group passing information back to the company.After a discussion about pay talks on the group someone said "the mole will be loving it today"
A manager 1 level below the top manager then said "f
k em and I hope they get knob rot"The guy suspended then replied "gob rot from John's Cock".
The only issue that is being highlighted is that he named the top manager directly. They've classed it as harassment and that's what he's been suspended for.
If anything its proved there's a mole.
Edited by Hondashark on Sunday 14th April 00:28
dundarach said:
Hondashark said:
dundarach said:
I can't imagine calling your boss a cock to their face would be an instant dismissal, I'm calling either BS or much more going on.
There's always one on a thread, today it's you.NuckyThompson said:
As for that union whatsapp group. We used to just keep the shop stewards as admins and only we could post in the group, if you had anything important to say then you’d message us privately. Calling the boss a dick doesn’t really enter any public domain then
Yeah after the first guy got suspended it got changed to admin post only. This is now over 2 months later they are still trawling through old messagesGassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff