E46 M3, buyer questions
Discussion
Random thoughts based around maybe getting one.
I've got paddles on a 335d xd and am happy enough with automatic now I'm getting older.
I'd do 90% rural and fun driving, and very occasional town/city/motorway queues, so I assume SMG will be fun in this environment?
Or am I missing a trick not going manual?
I enjoy my manual Z4 but when I do hit traffic or get into cities I hate it now.
I kinda missed out on the robot manual generation so tempted to enjoy one before it's too late.
Now they're all old I'd likely do most work myself.
Are parts reasonable prices now, and jobs quite easy?
I own a similar vintage Z4 and enjoy working on it, but the M cars are obviously a bit more special and parts more specialist? The Z4 pretty much uses boggo e46 parts so super cheap.
I've been in a CSL and I thought it was ok from a ride perspective.
But I do find my 04 Z4 too hard now. And as a backup family car the Z4 is obviously useless.
So is a normal M3 going to be a more comfy and family ish friendly backup car?
Or are there major bloopers against it being ok for 1 to maybe 2 toddlers?
It looks like the Coupe had isofix in the back.
If I budget £12,000 ish for an 06 one on average miles and make sure it's not a bad one, will £4,000 be a decent safety net for one? Or are they likely to be absorbing a lot of cash even in parts?
Is the CS worth the money as a straight M3 experience goes?
Or is any other model still better bang for buck?
I don't want to waste my time looking if it won't be right, and part of me is thinking just get a diesel Peugeot 308 GT or something.
But then you only live once and I'll miss my Z4, so an E46 M3 seems like a good idea.
Oh last thing. Is phoneix yellow rare?
I'd be happy with anything I think, but Phoenix yellow seems to me to have been 'the' colour for one.
Or is it generally seen as the one to not get?
Cheers
Dave
I've got paddles on a 335d xd and am happy enough with automatic now I'm getting older.
I'd do 90% rural and fun driving, and very occasional town/city/motorway queues, so I assume SMG will be fun in this environment?
Or am I missing a trick not going manual?
I enjoy my manual Z4 but when I do hit traffic or get into cities I hate it now.
I kinda missed out on the robot manual generation so tempted to enjoy one before it's too late.
Now they're all old I'd likely do most work myself.
Are parts reasonable prices now, and jobs quite easy?
I own a similar vintage Z4 and enjoy working on it, but the M cars are obviously a bit more special and parts more specialist? The Z4 pretty much uses boggo e46 parts so super cheap.
I've been in a CSL and I thought it was ok from a ride perspective.
But I do find my 04 Z4 too hard now. And as a backup family car the Z4 is obviously useless.
So is a normal M3 going to be a more comfy and family ish friendly backup car?
Or are there major bloopers against it being ok for 1 to maybe 2 toddlers?
It looks like the Coupe had isofix in the back.
If I budget £12,000 ish for an 06 one on average miles and make sure it's not a bad one, will £4,000 be a decent safety net for one? Or are they likely to be absorbing a lot of cash even in parts?
Is the CS worth the money as a straight M3 experience goes?
Or is any other model still better bang for buck?
I don't want to waste my time looking if it won't be right, and part of me is thinking just get a diesel Peugeot 308 GT or something.
But then you only live once and I'll miss my Z4, so an E46 M3 seems like a good idea.
Oh last thing. Is phoneix yellow rare?
I'd be happy with anything I think, but Phoenix yellow seems to me to have been 'the' colour for one.
Or is it generally seen as the one to not get?
Cheers
Dave
Thanks for all the helpful replies!
I think I'd like SMG but I do think it's a thing you'd have to get used to too.
That said I love driving my Z4 and just rev matching perfectly myself.
This will probably be the toughest choice to make.
CS, do they all have that grey interior? Even some normal M3s have it.
Is it just me or does it look a bit cheap? Is it better in the skin?
I think on age I'm happy with facelift, and it seems earlier facelift models fall into the cheaper tax brackets?
And mileage, a bit under average for age assuming it's been looked after seems to have been ok for my Z4.
Colours, ok Phoenix yellow is a bit marmite if it's got those yellow seats too haha.
I like the EB, red, techno, or silvers. I'm not keen on blacks just because they look crap unless you're a cleaning slave haha!
Wheels would have to be 19" as I'm a tart. The 18" look ok on some colours like red and blue.
I'll admit I've not done basic research on this, so sorry to ask, but this chassis issue. A friend had it on a 330Ci years back but I've forgotten the details.
Is this the same on all E46 inc M3?
Can I do a visual inspection under boot liner etc? Or is it under the car proper?
Or should I be looking for some official ish evidence?
I'm kinda looking at spending £12,000-£16,000, and say £1,500 reserve on top for issues (assuming no catastrophic failures which I'd just have to live with)
So spending less is better as I have more in reserve.
Then again more is better if it'll pay dividends on residuals and less things to fix.
I'll do maybe 4k-6k a year, but I'm not going to spend my life washing it, or start only driving it in summer when it doesn't rain.
It'll hopefully be garaged. It should get a good couple of runs a week that get it warmed right through.
I'll avoid using it at salty times in winter.
I'm not expecting to see it's value go up, but I assume a well kept one that's kept tidy and in full working order will do ok on residuals from this point on? Ie, not halve in 3yrs?
Is now a good time of year to be buying one?
Thanks again
Dave
I think I'd like SMG but I do think it's a thing you'd have to get used to too.
That said I love driving my Z4 and just rev matching perfectly myself.
This will probably be the toughest choice to make.
CS, do they all have that grey interior? Even some normal M3s have it.
Is it just me or does it look a bit cheap? Is it better in the skin?
I think on age I'm happy with facelift, and it seems earlier facelift models fall into the cheaper tax brackets?
And mileage, a bit under average for age assuming it's been looked after seems to have been ok for my Z4.
Colours, ok Phoenix yellow is a bit marmite if it's got those yellow seats too haha.
I like the EB, red, techno, or silvers. I'm not keen on blacks just because they look crap unless you're a cleaning slave haha!
Wheels would have to be 19" as I'm a tart. The 18" look ok on some colours like red and blue.
I'll admit I've not done basic research on this, so sorry to ask, but this chassis issue. A friend had it on a 330Ci years back but I've forgotten the details.
Is this the same on all E46 inc M3?
Can I do a visual inspection under boot liner etc? Or is it under the car proper?
Or should I be looking for some official ish evidence?
I'm kinda looking at spending £12,000-£16,000, and say £1,500 reserve on top for issues (assuming no catastrophic failures which I'd just have to live with)
So spending less is better as I have more in reserve.
Then again more is better if it'll pay dividends on residuals and less things to fix.
I'll do maybe 4k-6k a year, but I'm not going to spend my life washing it, or start only driving it in summer when it doesn't rain.
It'll hopefully be garaged. It should get a good couple of runs a week that get it warmed right through.
I'll avoid using it at salty times in winter.
I'm not expecting to see it's value go up, but I assume a well kept one that's kept tidy and in full working order will do ok on residuals from this point on? Ie, not halve in 3yrs?
Is now a good time of year to be buying one?
Thanks again
Dave
There are two good garages nearby ish, one with a CS at £17, another a manual facelift for similar money (must be mint)
So I can at least start looking.
And they seem to hang around a while so I won't worry about one I see and like instantly disappearing, if there are others to go see.
Now the process of cashing out some bitcoin haha. Let's see how this goes
So I can at least start looking.
And they seem to hang around a while so I won't worry about one I see and like instantly disappearing, if there are others to go see.
Now the process of cashing out some bitcoin haha. Let's see how this goes
I was watching a chap on YouTube who was tinkering with SMG data and engine data, and going for a run down some country lanes.
It made me realise I'd missed the joy of this engine type and gearbox combo.
Now everything is going 'smooth' zf8 or is turbo, the joys of instant NA power in combo with a robot doing your clutch and gear selector as fast as possible is a thing that's just gonna disappear unless you get one of the classic and arguably better implementations of it in a good car!
It only really appeared with the E36 M3 and F355 F1, and was kinda gone a decade later with DCT/DSG/ZF autos and turbos.
I think only the Aventador has stuck with a robot manual and high rev NA.
So from a driving history POV those SMG M3s to me at least seem a fleeting and quite unique time.
I think I'll go look at that CS with grey interior tomorrow maybe.
Just sit in it and decide if I could live with it, see how big it is in the back/boot etc.
It made me realise I'd missed the joy of this engine type and gearbox combo.
Now everything is going 'smooth' zf8 or is turbo, the joys of instant NA power in combo with a robot doing your clutch and gear selector as fast as possible is a thing that's just gonna disappear unless you get one of the classic and arguably better implementations of it in a good car!
It only really appeared with the E36 M3 and F355 F1, and was kinda gone a decade later with DCT/DSG/ZF autos and turbos.
I think only the Aventador has stuck with a robot manual and high rev NA.
So from a driving history POV those SMG M3s to me at least seem a fleeting and quite unique time.
I think I'll go look at that CS with grey interior tomorrow maybe.
Just sit in it and decide if I could live with it, see how big it is in the back/boot etc.
I'd actually been considering a 4dr V8 M3 a bit instead of the 335d Xd.
For me the E46 M3 just holds an appeal that the V8 one can't come close to.
And I really like my Z4 and my wife and I are sad it'll have to go. It feels very honest and simply engineered, and I'm so familiar with the E46 DNA that having an M car with that same feel just seems logical to me because I know it'll feel right.
I think as long as it doesn't have a tape player I'll be happy
Dave
For me the E46 M3 just holds an appeal that the V8 one can't come close to.
And I really like my Z4 and my wife and I are sad it'll have to go. It feels very honest and simply engineered, and I'm so familiar with the E46 DNA that having an M car with that same feel just seems logical to me because I know it'll feel right.
I think as long as it doesn't have a tape player I'll be happy
Dave
I know you can re-program the SMG and engines fairly cheaply and easily these days.
But will a CS have the best CSL SMG software?
And would a CS have had the rear sub mounts done/preventative fixed as they'd have been under BMW warranty till about 2008/9 ish, and I gather the issue was well known about by then...?
There is a CS fairly local to me. It has a grey interior but almost all CS I've seen are grey interior so I'd rather just go on quality than spec.
If it's a good one then the search is over haha.
My ideal would be a facelift coupe SMG titanium silver and coral red interior with CS/L wheels.
But will a CS have the best CSL SMG software?
And would a CS have had the rear sub mounts done/preventative fixed as they'd have been under BMW warranty till about 2008/9 ish, and I gather the issue was well known about by then...?
There is a CS fairly local to me. It has a grey interior but almost all CS I've seen are grey interior so I'd rather just go on quality than spec.
If it's a good one then the search is over haha.
My ideal would be a facelift coupe SMG titanium silver and coral red interior with CS/L wheels.
Boooo bitcoin has dropped. Too slow haha. Ah well. Will just have to use normal money.
I think I'll wait till the new year now anyhow but I'll report back with what I find when I start looking.
I definitely want to get one now though, it seems no one really has a bad thing to say, and the fact they absorb money hasn't tainted experiences too much!
I'm hoping to build a big garage and get a two post lift too, so want a car I can tinker with
I think I'll wait till the new year now anyhow but I'll report back with what I find when I start looking.
I definitely want to get one now though, it seems no one really has a bad thing to say, and the fact they absorb money hasn't tainted experiences too much!
I'm hoping to build a big garage and get a two post lift too, so want a car I can tinker with
I'm happy to wait for a good car locally I think.
Or if I do go a long way I'll be needing full history in detail so I can make sure there are no surprises.
I might even just use a buying agent?
Does anyone know any good M3 sellers?
I've seen a trader over West Midlands way iirc, with 4 or so, one is an EB with yellow CSL Cup calipers for £20,000 ish.
I'd buy the right one tomorrow if I knew it was right.
It's just finding out it's right haha!
So on headunits. I'm not hugely concerned with sat nav, or multichanger.
As long as it's a CD head unit or better I'm ok. Or aux-in for iPhone.
Are these headunits easily swappable and re-code-able?
Is base hifi good enough? My Z4 one was standard 3.0i one and it was fine for me.
For me I'm not really bothered about anything except no obvious poverty spec stuff that will hurt later resale.
Are there any things to make sure I avoid?
Only one I can spot is tape players!
Oh it looks like they're all memory seats, but heating is optional?
I suppose there is always the option of swapping an interior if you wanted. Red interiors don't seem so rare, so could just wait for a nice one.
Or get a rough interior car and retrim.
In for a penny in for a pound with these cars!
Or if I do go a long way I'll be needing full history in detail so I can make sure there are no surprises.
I might even just use a buying agent?
Does anyone know any good M3 sellers?
I've seen a trader over West Midlands way iirc, with 4 or so, one is an EB with yellow CSL Cup calipers for £20,000 ish.
I'd buy the right one tomorrow if I knew it was right.
It's just finding out it's right haha!
So on headunits. I'm not hugely concerned with sat nav, or multichanger.
As long as it's a CD head unit or better I'm ok. Or aux-in for iPhone.
Are these headunits easily swappable and re-code-able?
Is base hifi good enough? My Z4 one was standard 3.0i one and it was fine for me.
For me I'm not really bothered about anything except no obvious poverty spec stuff that will hurt later resale.
Are there any things to make sure I avoid?
Only one I can spot is tape players!
Oh it looks like they're all memory seats, but heating is optional?
I suppose there is always the option of swapping an interior if you wanted. Red interiors don't seem so rare, so could just wait for a nice one.
Or get a rough interior car and retrim.
In for a penny in for a pound with these cars!
Edited by Mr Whippy on Saturday 23 December 15:34
Just reading eBay adverts.
Plenty of people selling them after sub-frame checks turned out 'ok' so nothing done.
Hmmm.
Including iirc a Silverstone special. Despite having loads of bodywork done under warranty.
Then another saying it was reinforced under warranty.
I can see this is going to be a fun exercise dragging the truth out of sellers before a visit haha!
Plenty of people selling them after sub-frame checks turned out 'ok' so nothing done.
Hmmm.
Including iirc a Silverstone special. Despite having loads of bodywork done under warranty.
Then another saying it was reinforced under warranty.
I can see this is going to be a fun exercise dragging the truth out of sellers before a visit haha!
I've still not gone to look at any cars yet, but I've been ringing around and trying to get a picture of some nearby cars.
Why owners and traders can't write really comprehensive ads is beyond me.
So far one private seller has what looks like a straight car.
He's said he'll take less for it, he has his new car already (second/third car for weekend), so just needs to get this one moved on but trying private first vs trade in, so good on him.
Only downside is really that the service history seems to have been done by non BMW and non-specialist since he bought it, so it now needs me to ring these guys and ask what they did (ie, did they do a proper INSP 2 or not)
Also because he's had it 4yrs and only done about 12k miles, I'm not entirely sure how the numbers stack up.
Ie, if it's had the right oil and the engine didn't need shim adjustment any way (maybe it had an INSP2 just before he got it), maybe an independent service will be ok.
Just needs lots of checking and rining around and basically making sure I'm happy. I'd say I'm pretty damn good at doing it, but I'm so annoyed when there are clear faults/issues that are material and haven't been disclosed and make the entire day a waste... it does happen and it puts me off.
THEN it's all the checking the car when I go see it etc. How do people go on with insurance and test drives these days for a private seller/buyer?
Nothing against the seller, but it surprises me when people skimp on FBMWSH on a car like this when that M engine deserves the job doing 100% right, especially from a resale reassurance POV.
Had it been FBMWSH I'd have probably been rushing to go see it... instead I'm sat here indifferent because I know if it is a good deal, it's also a lot of time/risk to go check it out, and THEN also reassure the next person who it's sold to (you never know) that it's 'all ok'
So I ran a trader selling a top money M3 CS (top money imo, the prices some traders are asking is bonkers given I could 'mintify' a cheap M3 for less and know it's 100% right!)
All great, but no service in the book since summer 2013! Last one was an INSP2 at BMW. BMW SH all through though.
But apparently just before it was traded in it had £3,000 ish spent at BMW and mention of oil/diff seals etc. So maybe it did have an INSP2 but it's simply not been added to the book?
So another job for me to ring BMW to find out this info... you'd think a dealer selling such a car would get this clarified... 4.5yrs and about 15k mile gap in service is seriously 'out' for such a car?
I have this feeling it's been serviced but the book is blank. I'm gonna try go see the car next week and have a drive and do digging to make sure it's 100% straight and then if I really like it I can haggle and try get it into the range of what I'd be happy paying.
It's also made me realise that my 04 Z4 on 3 owners (1st was BMW) and me for the last 9 years is pretty 'good' all considered. It's got all the paperwork from me and the last guy. I bought all new keys. It's got a FBMWSH.
I need to find a person like me selling an M3 haha
PS, does anyone else use Cazana? Does anyone know if an owner change entry is made when traders get cars sometimes?
Just I've seen some very odd entries with changes of owners and then re-advertised by the same dealer soon after. It's hard to draw a full picture but I'm baffled by the history of some cars.
There is a Phoenix Yellow facelift over Preston way on AutoTrader with a weird timeline.
At first it appealed to me but then these timelines put me off. Not entirely, but the idea of driving 2 hrs each way to have my worries justified isn't my idea of fun.
Why owners and traders can't write really comprehensive ads is beyond me.
So far one private seller has what looks like a straight car.
He's said he'll take less for it, he has his new car already (second/third car for weekend), so just needs to get this one moved on but trying private first vs trade in, so good on him.
Only downside is really that the service history seems to have been done by non BMW and non-specialist since he bought it, so it now needs me to ring these guys and ask what they did (ie, did they do a proper INSP 2 or not)
Also because he's had it 4yrs and only done about 12k miles, I'm not entirely sure how the numbers stack up.
Ie, if it's had the right oil and the engine didn't need shim adjustment any way (maybe it had an INSP2 just before he got it), maybe an independent service will be ok.
Just needs lots of checking and rining around and basically making sure I'm happy. I'd say I'm pretty damn good at doing it, but I'm so annoyed when there are clear faults/issues that are material and haven't been disclosed and make the entire day a waste... it does happen and it puts me off.
THEN it's all the checking the car when I go see it etc. How do people go on with insurance and test drives these days for a private seller/buyer?
Nothing against the seller, but it surprises me when people skimp on FBMWSH on a car like this when that M engine deserves the job doing 100% right, especially from a resale reassurance POV.
Had it been FBMWSH I'd have probably been rushing to go see it... instead I'm sat here indifferent because I know if it is a good deal, it's also a lot of time/risk to go check it out, and THEN also reassure the next person who it's sold to (you never know) that it's 'all ok'
So I ran a trader selling a top money M3 CS (top money imo, the prices some traders are asking is bonkers given I could 'mintify' a cheap M3 for less and know it's 100% right!)
All great, but no service in the book since summer 2013! Last one was an INSP2 at BMW. BMW SH all through though.
But apparently just before it was traded in it had £3,000 ish spent at BMW and mention of oil/diff seals etc. So maybe it did have an INSP2 but it's simply not been added to the book?
So another job for me to ring BMW to find out this info... you'd think a dealer selling such a car would get this clarified... 4.5yrs and about 15k mile gap in service is seriously 'out' for such a car?
I have this feeling it's been serviced but the book is blank. I'm gonna try go see the car next week and have a drive and do digging to make sure it's 100% straight and then if I really like it I can haggle and try get it into the range of what I'd be happy paying.
It's also made me realise that my 04 Z4 on 3 owners (1st was BMW) and me for the last 9 years is pretty 'good' all considered. It's got all the paperwork from me and the last guy. I bought all new keys. It's got a FBMWSH.
I need to find a person like me selling an M3 haha
PS, does anyone else use Cazana? Does anyone know if an owner change entry is made when traders get cars sometimes?
Just I've seen some very odd entries with changes of owners and then re-advertised by the same dealer soon after. It's hard to draw a full picture but I'm baffled by the history of some cars.
There is a Phoenix Yellow facelift over Preston way on AutoTrader with a weird timeline.
At first it appealed to me but then these timelines put me off. Not entirely, but the idea of driving 2 hrs each way to have my worries justified isn't my idea of fun.
For me a specialist is as good as it having missed everything except the right oil in the engine and an 'oil filter'
What makes a specialist? Just saying they are?
And then just saying they'll ignore BMW service guides haha. Hmmm.
But if BMW skimp the checks too, but charge as if they're not, that's pointless too.
A generic garage means it's had oil and a filter of some kind but maybe not even right consumables.
Even FBMWSH is meaningless, as is full specialist, or full random SH.
I'm very tempted to go for the £12,000 silver one near me on 06 and 68k miles... assuming nothing is obviously way off with the engine/SMG.
Get him down to £9,500.
Then do a £3,000 top to bottom on it DIY and OE bits.
Screw the history and do it all DIY with video footage of each job and all receipts etc.
At least you can trust that. Spam shots or daily newspaper as proof haha!
Given probably 95% of cars I see are patchy history now, I kinda think an enthusiast history with a good receipted folder and years of write-ups mostly proves the car is right over time.
At least then I know it's right myself, than trusting others to have both done stuff right in the past, and in the future too when I need work doing.
I'm still going to go see the CS near me and get a feel for a supposedly mint 90k mile car.
Also clarify the two gaps in history.
I think I'd have to eventually swap out the grey though haha!
What makes a specialist? Just saying they are?
And then just saying they'll ignore BMW service guides haha. Hmmm.
But if BMW skimp the checks too, but charge as if they're not, that's pointless too.
A generic garage means it's had oil and a filter of some kind but maybe not even right consumables.
Even FBMWSH is meaningless, as is full specialist, or full random SH.
I'm very tempted to go for the £12,000 silver one near me on 06 and 68k miles... assuming nothing is obviously way off with the engine/SMG.
Get him down to £9,500.
Then do a £3,000 top to bottom on it DIY and OE bits.
Screw the history and do it all DIY with video footage of each job and all receipts etc.
At least you can trust that. Spam shots or daily newspaper as proof haha!
Given probably 95% of cars I see are patchy history now, I kinda think an enthusiast history with a good receipted folder and years of write-ups mostly proves the car is right over time.
At least then I know it's right myself, than trusting others to have both done stuff right in the past, and in the future too when I need work doing.
I'm still going to go see the CS near me and get a feel for a supposedly mint 90k mile car.
Also clarify the two gaps in history.
I think I'd have to eventually swap out the grey though haha!
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