E60 M5 swap for an E46 M3? Madness??
Discussion
So, I've got a tidy well spec’d 2003 e46 M3. Its got 70k miles, good history and some nice mods to make it into a very capable fast road car/track car. I’d say its worth about £14-15k going by todays marketed prices, and they seem to be rising too. Its also had all the big jobs done bar the RACP bracing, which currently has no visible signs of requiring immediate attention, it was thoroughly inspected with photos when the GPS was replaced a month ago.
I’ve come across a 55plate E60 M5 with 105k on the clock (new engine fitted @40k for some reason), recent clutch, slave and DMF done, and looks quite tidy. No mention of big end shells being replaced though. Current owner thinks it's worth £14k.
From people who have experience of running both, or of selling both, I’d like to find out if doing a straight swap with the M5 owner is a good deal or one I’d regret. I would have thought the M5 was worth less than the M3, even if it is a better car. But I can only assume the values are lower due to the higher running costs.
I know what all the usual faults and cost are on the M3 but know nothing about the M5’s other than they can also suffer with vanos failure but 2off, also bid end failure and actuator failure. Are these all common?
The M5’s seem to be at their rock bottom, or perhaps have already been there and are on their way up like the M3’s. I only do about 5k a year so fuel economy isn’t a major concern for me.
What questions should I be armed with??
Thanks.
I’ve come across a 55plate E60 M5 with 105k on the clock (new engine fitted @40k for some reason), recent clutch, slave and DMF done, and looks quite tidy. No mention of big end shells being replaced though. Current owner thinks it's worth £14k.
From people who have experience of running both, or of selling both, I’d like to find out if doing a straight swap with the M5 owner is a good deal or one I’d regret. I would have thought the M5 was worth less than the M3, even if it is a better car. But I can only assume the values are lower due to the higher running costs.
I know what all the usual faults and cost are on the M3 but know nothing about the M5’s other than they can also suffer with vanos failure but 2off, also bid end failure and actuator failure. Are these all common?
The M5’s seem to be at their rock bottom, or perhaps have already been there and are on their way up like the M3’s. I only do about 5k a year so fuel economy isn’t a major concern for me.
What questions should I be armed with??
Thanks.
Thanks for the replies chaps, interesting to see an actual M5 owner also suggesting to keep the M3! I do think the M3 would be sorely missed if I were to let it go, especially with the low miles and spec.
My only problem for me is I have 3 small kids, and they don't all fit in the M3, so we can't use it for weekend trips etc. Which is a good thing I suppose as it doesn't get ruined by sticky fingers etc!!!
Being a true petrolhead the M5 has always had admiration from me, but the cost of running one has always deterred me.
Are they really no quicker than the M3 to 80mph? I'd have thought they'd leave the M3 standing?
My only problem for me is I have 3 small kids, and they don't all fit in the M3, so we can't use it for weekend trips etc. Which is a good thing I suppose as it doesn't get ruined by sticky fingers etc!!!
Being a true petrolhead the M5 has always had admiration from me, but the cost of running one has always deterred me.
Are they really no quicker than the M3 to 80mph? I'd have thought they'd leave the M3 standing?
TheAngryDog said:
Toady, you're not far from me, im in bucks. If you're in no rush then you are welcome to come and try my M5 once I get back it back from having the rod bearings done.
Thanks for the offer. I'd like to do that. Who is doing the rod bearings for you as if I do go for it then it may be wise to have them done on this car as its done 65k now. The chap proposing to swap is not far from me either, but it'd be great to see another one to compare it to. Jazzer said:
The E60 is in a completely different league to the E46.....and most other things on the road.....virtually unbeatable when three digits start.
Given what you say, the E46 is the one for you.....they’re great all rounders, but different from the stunning E60!
Jazzer - what makes you think the M3 is the one for me? I mainly concerned about getting another one like mine if the M5 doesn't do it for me. Good M3's are now very hard to find, and values are doing well. M5's I think are still depreciating and the running costs have always limited their market. For me being able to fit the family in the M5 is a massive bonus!Given what you say, the E46 is the one for you.....they’re great all rounders, but different from the stunning E60!
I'm meeting up with someone I know who has one in the next village this week, so I can really see what I think of them compared to the M3.
turboman786 said:
I've currently got an e46 m3 and have had an e60 m5
E46 is a much better car in terms of fun and driver satisfaction
M5 is nice .....but e46 m3 is far nicer
Well I went out in someone's M5 this week. It sure was a nice place to be, and quick!! But I see what you mean by the M3 being the more fun car. At 70mph it felt like we were doing 30mph! I think you can exploit the M3's chassis and power a lot better. Also when put next to each other the M3 just looked so good, but the M5 looked so.....normal executive car like, but then I guess the M5's have always been that sort of car which is part of their appeal. E46 is a much better car in terms of fun and driver satisfaction
M5 is nice .....but e46 m3 is far nicer
I'm still a little torn between the two. I know my cars is a good egg, low miles and great mods. I also know for peace of mind I'd have to shell out £1500 immediately on buying an M5 to get the big ends done!
Mr Whippy said:
Will a V8 M3 fit the family, as that’s gotta be the better compromise in a multitude of ways.
I do love the look of the e90 saloons, and they'd be far better than the e46 for me, but they're few and far between. I also don't think they'd fit 3 child car seats in the back. But if anyone on here knows better then I'm all ears!Hi, I knew it also suffered the rod bearing issues and actuators, but didn't know it was based on the M5 lump!
So an update anyway...The original car I started this thread about has actually covered 105k miles. The current owner thought it had had a new engine from BMW fitted at about 40k, so they told me it had only done 65k on this engine. I did some research and found out that the original engine had suffered injector failure bore washing the engine and killing it. The chap worked for BMW at the time (now owns his own business specialising in BMW) and bought the car cheap with the dead engine. He then bought a 2nd hand engine from ebay which had covered similar mileage, fitted it, and then flogged it on to make some money. I got in touch with him hence knowing this. He said the engine hasn't had new bearings so its now on over 100k on original shells. Although the car looks mint, and has had some great owners, it is on the orriginal actuators, shells, SMG pump etc. It has had clucth fly and slave within 10k which is a bonus. But again its done over 100k and could be a potential big bill coming up soon. So this has put me off going for it.
Since then I received an email from someone else wishing to do a swap deal with me, we exchanged emails and pictures and I (still not convinced the M5 was for me, even after going out in one last week) was set on going ahead with it as the wife liked it and thought the fact we could all fit in it was a bonus!
Unfortunately that fell through as the guy said he suffered back issues so didn't want to risk getting a M3 as it's lower etc, and may make matters worse. A bit gutted as I'd gotten used to the idea I was going to have an M5! ha!
So...I'm back to the drawing board. I've always wanted a B7 Audi RS4 avant (cough...I know this is the M forum), and said that this was the only car I'd swap the M3 for, but now the M5 seed has been planted so I'm looking at both. But again, I still look out my window at the M3 and admire its looks.
Little picture of my car...
So an update anyway...The original car I started this thread about has actually covered 105k miles. The current owner thought it had had a new engine from BMW fitted at about 40k, so they told me it had only done 65k on this engine. I did some research and found out that the original engine had suffered injector failure bore washing the engine and killing it. The chap worked for BMW at the time (now owns his own business specialising in BMW) and bought the car cheap with the dead engine. He then bought a 2nd hand engine from ebay which had covered similar mileage, fitted it, and then flogged it on to make some money. I got in touch with him hence knowing this. He said the engine hasn't had new bearings so its now on over 100k on original shells. Although the car looks mint, and has had some great owners, it is on the orriginal actuators, shells, SMG pump etc. It has had clucth fly and slave within 10k which is a bonus. But again its done over 100k and could be a potential big bill coming up soon. So this has put me off going for it.
Since then I received an email from someone else wishing to do a swap deal with me, we exchanged emails and pictures and I (still not convinced the M5 was for me, even after going out in one last week) was set on going ahead with it as the wife liked it and thought the fact we could all fit in it was a bonus!
Unfortunately that fell through as the guy said he suffered back issues so didn't want to risk getting a M3 as it's lower etc, and may make matters worse. A bit gutted as I'd gotten used to the idea I was going to have an M5! ha!
So...I'm back to the drawing board. I've always wanted a B7 Audi RS4 avant (cough...I know this is the M forum), and said that this was the only car I'd swap the M3 for, but now the M5 seed has been planted so I'm looking at both. But again, I still look out my window at the M3 and admire its looks.
Little picture of my car...
Edited by Toady1 on Friday 29th June 16:47
Khaki Suit said:
Ah but the chase for a new car is all part of the fun. It's kind of primal, like a hunt.
More exciting at times, maybe, than driving the car once you have it. Because once you have the car you tend to look for something else to chase..
You're talking about cars......yes??..... More exciting at times, maybe, than driving the car once you have it. Because once you have the car you tend to look for something else to chase..
I know what you mean, it does sound dodgy when someone wants to swap, but it is a much more convenient way to do things. Selling cars seems to be a right task these days. So many scammers or timewasters. I think if you both know what you want and what to look out for, then it's a good way of changing.
Khaki Suit said:
When we spoke did it sound like I was looking to offload a potential problem.
I'm not sure I agree with George's statements tbh..
Nope neither you or the other chap seemed dodgy in the slightest, nor the original enquiry to be honest - if that's what you meant? I hope my reply didn't get taken in that way. But we're all M car enthusiasts which I think goes a long way.I'm not sure I agree with George's statements tbh..
But I can see what George is saying when you see some swaps come up.
So I've just come back from 2 weeks away on holiday driving the boring family car, looking online at many Audi RS4/6 and M5's whilst away! I've decided it may be best for me to stick mine up for sale then be a cash buyer for the next car. I have to admit though, I'm not looking forward to the selling experience these days, which is why I was considering doing the swap, but I think simply selling it would be for the best, for sure it'd put me in the better position to find the next car.
I've seen the M5 that I was going to swap with that fell through as the previous owner had back problems has obviously been bought by a trader as is up for sale now for £16k, it does look amazing in the advert so I'm a little gutted it fell through now! But like has been said I was a little wary of doing a swap as it does make you question...what is wrong with their car.
I think the majority of pistonheaders however would be totally sound to deal with, especially when you can see their car has come from a good background/owners club members cars etc.
So I'll be sticking my advert up for my car for £15k this week. Wish me luck people!!
I've seen the M5 that I was going to swap with that fell through as the previous owner had back problems has obviously been bought by a trader as is up for sale now for £16k, it does look amazing in the advert so I'm a little gutted it fell through now! But like has been said I was a little wary of doing a swap as it does make you question...what is wrong with their car.
I think the majority of pistonheaders however would be totally sound to deal with, especially when you can see their car has come from a good background/owners club members cars etc.
So I'll be sticking my advert up for my car for £15k this week. Wish me luck people!!
cosworth330 said:
Just to let you know I sold that M5 to Mike who then traded it for. Range Rover at SJ Specialist cars Wigan. Mike had it just over a year but found it hard to get in and out of due to his back playing up. I owned it for 4 years and it had BMWAUC warranty when I bought it and then I put the Mondial warranty on it all the time I had it. I bought it off MattOz on here back in early 2013. It really is as good as the advert says. It was garaged for the 4 years I owned it and rarely used in the rain. Had the throttle actuators replaced by BMW around 60k, all the Vanos solenoids replaced at 62k, clutch and flywheel replaced at 38k miles. MPSS fitted which still have loads of tread. Mile put those 167M alloys on it which look great. It’s a very high spec car from factory as well. That FAMS map is is very good as well but can be removed very easily.
I am so fussy about my cars and only buy the best, it’s never had any paintwork and doesn’t have any dings. Has one tiny scratch about an inch on the top of the rear bumper but you have to look to find it.
Go and test drive it. It really is a very good car. I would buy it back but have no need for one.
Hi, yes I saw the car was now for sale by a dealer. I'm gutted that the deal didn't work out for me in the end as it looked a great example. I am so fussy about my cars and only buy the best, it’s never had any paintwork and doesn’t have any dings. Has one tiny scratch about an inch on the top of the rear bumper but you have to look to find it.
Go and test drive it. It really is a very good car. I would buy it back but have no need for one.
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