M3 E92 stage 2 affect on value
Discussion
Looking for some advice from the M wizards on here!
I picked up my M3 E92 in August and have been loving it.
I had the rod bearings done at Evolve and the throttle actuators were already refurbished by a previous owner.
I have been considering lowering the front end (in my opinion the height of the front end is the worst trait of the car in stock form) and stage 2 tuning it with Evolve’s package. The latter modification being very popular, to bring out the true V8 symphony.
Now I know any suspension modification is easily reversible but I am wondering what affect the stage 2 tune will have on the car’s value.
Evolve’s stage 2 tune includes removal of the primary cats and delete pipes installed instead, my thinking is that installing the cats back on at a later date would be expensive, or impossible.
I’m aware of the value of these cars and how my investment is somewhat protected with the car in stock form, so I’m just concerned I will lose some of my investment if I modify it.
I can’t see many of these cars for sale with stage 2’s so either they aren’t for sale, or people don’t put it on the advert.
I guess my question is, would you be put off buying an M3 that has been stage 2 tuned or would it not bother you at all?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Car for attention:
I picked up my M3 E92 in August and have been loving it.
I had the rod bearings done at Evolve and the throttle actuators were already refurbished by a previous owner.
I have been considering lowering the front end (in my opinion the height of the front end is the worst trait of the car in stock form) and stage 2 tuning it with Evolve’s package. The latter modification being very popular, to bring out the true V8 symphony.
Now I know any suspension modification is easily reversible but I am wondering what affect the stage 2 tune will have on the car’s value.
Evolve’s stage 2 tune includes removal of the primary cats and delete pipes installed instead, my thinking is that installing the cats back on at a later date would be expensive, or impossible.
I’m aware of the value of these cars and how my investment is somewhat protected with the car in stock form, so I’m just concerned I will lose some of my investment if I modify it.
I can’t see many of these cars for sale with stage 2’s so either they aren’t for sale, or people don’t put it on the advert.
I guess my question is, would you be put off buying an M3 that has been stage 2 tuned or would it not bother you at all?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Car for attention:
Thanks everyone for the replies.
Partly this is because of the combination of a high revving engine and not inconsiderable kerb weight.
OP - my advice would be we remove your mid section / X-pipe and store it. The either buy a used unit with gutted primary cats or fit test pipes (also known as cat delete pipes) to ensure you can return the car to stock.
Also bear in mind that the MOT rules have recently changed so that you can now fail on a visual inspection if you have the test / delete pipes fitted, even if you still meet emissions regs (which you will on a warm car as the secondary cats are still in place).
There are 2 companies I know of who can ‘gut’ the cats, but if it were me I’d look at getting the decaf version second had rather than butchering my OEM mid-section.I’m of the same opinion. I think the small increase in performance and noise is well worth it.
Thank you for the info around MOT’s. If I can just query that though... my understanding was that because the test pipes I’m looking at had sensors, then these would still pass an MOT?
Also, and sorry if I’m being dense! But you’ve confused me with your references to removing just my mid-section? Wouldn’t I have to remove the whole system if I was going to replace it with a gutted version?
The other point to note is, I’m also interested in Evolve’s remap, not just the cat delete.
survivalist said:
JMBMWM5 said:
Gains will be very minimal on that Engine, hardly noticeable, wast of money IMO, did it to mine, got low BHP.
Have to disagree with this. While you won’t see the same gains you would get on a turbocharged car, for obvious reasons, the primary cats on this car really strangle the low end throttle response and mid range torque on this car.Partly this is because of the combination of a high revving engine and not inconsiderable kerb weight.
OP - my advice would be we remove your mid section / X-pipe and store it. The either buy a used unit with gutted primary cats or fit test pipes (also known as cat delete pipes) to ensure you can return the car to stock.
Also bear in mind that the MOT rules have recently changed so that you can now fail on a visual inspection if you have the test / delete pipes fitted, even if you still meet emissions regs (which you will on a warm car as the secondary cats are still in place).
There are 2 companies I know of who can ‘gut’ the cats, but if it were me I’d look at getting the decaf version second had rather than butchering my OEM mid-section.
Thank you for the info around MOT’s. If I can just query that though... my understanding was that because the test pipes I’m looking at had sensors, then these would still pass an MOT?
Also, and sorry if I’m being dense! But you’ve confused me with your references to removing just my mid-section? Wouldn’t I have to remove the whole system if I was going to replace it with a gutted version?
The other point to note is, I’m also interested in Evolve’s remap, not just the cat delete.
Thank you to all.
Certainly some differing opinions.
The car only gets fed V Power and to be honest it’s unleashing the noise of the V8 that’s my main priority. The car sounds really tame in stock form.
Evolve are really good at what they do and I’ve not heard this issue with knocking on a remapped NA engine before... I will look into this.
Certainly some differing opinions.
The car only gets fed V Power and to be honest it’s unleashing the noise of the V8 that’s my main priority. The car sounds really tame in stock form.
Evolve are really good at what they do and I’ve not heard this issue with knocking on a remapped NA engine before... I will look into this.
Really overwhelmed with the helpful responses. Thank you to all.
At the risk of sounding like an idiot, can someone please confirm that the “2-pipe mod” and “backbox mod” are the same thing?
I’m desperately googling to try and keep up with you guys but just getting more confused with the different nicknames people have for the same modification(s).
If they are the same thing, it seems that it is a popular mod and seems to have the backing from Survivalist too, who’s been extra helpful on this thread.
So I’m leaning towards going for this in the first instance, and might stay away from the idea of a stage 2, for now anyway!
Can anyone confirm it’s the same mod and also explain what the mod is and how it improves the sound? I don’t want it to be too ASBO but do want a bit more noise.
Thanks again to everyone.
At the risk of sounding like an idiot, can someone please confirm that the “2-pipe mod” and “backbox mod” are the same thing?
I’m desperately googling to try and keep up with you guys but just getting more confused with the different nicknames people have for the same modification(s).
If they are the same thing, it seems that it is a popular mod and seems to have the backing from Survivalist too, who’s been extra helpful on this thread.
So I’m leaning towards going for this in the first instance, and might stay away from the idea of a stage 2, for now anyway!
Can anyone confirm it’s the same mod and also explain what the mod is and how it improves the sound? I don’t want it to be too ASBO but do want a bit more noise.
Thanks again to everyone.
JEA1K said:
Yes, back box mod is generic for all the back box mod options.
Below is from Modstock who most people use for this work.
1.75 Pipe mod = Moderate - Medium
2 pipe mod = Moderate - Medium/loud
2.5 pipe mod = loud - LOUD
4 pipe mod = LOUD - ASBO
If you go to Youtube and listen to the various options and see what you think.
Thank you.Below is from Modstock who most people use for this work.
1.75 Pipe mod = Moderate - Medium
2 pipe mod = Moderate - Medium/loud
2.5 pipe mod = loud - LOUD
4 pipe mod = LOUD - ASBO
If you go to Youtube and listen to the various options and see what you think.
Steve Barrett said:
Also to add, the back box mod gives a lovely sound as does removing the precats, but both make it louder still so if you don't want masses of noise do 1 or the other not both.
When having the remap done to suit primary cat removal you can also choose to have the cold start deleted to keep it quiet on startup.
The biggest thing about primary cat removal and "test pipes" fitted is they are a visual MOT fail even thought it will still pass the emissions test. Chris Batten from Modstock exhaust can gut the standard primary cats giving it visually the appearance of still have them installed but obviously this isn't reversible so you'd require a used standard X pipe if you wanted to return to stock.
Really helpful. This has swayed me to just go for the back box mod. Thank you. When having the remap done to suit primary cat removal you can also choose to have the cold start deleted to keep it quiet on startup.
The biggest thing about primary cat removal and "test pipes" fitted is they are a visual MOT fail even thought it will still pass the emissions test. Chris Batten from Modstock exhaust can gut the standard primary cats giving it visually the appearance of still have them installed but obviously this isn't reversible so you'd require a used standard X pipe if you wanted to return to stock.
I spoke to one of the popular back box mod specialists and he is trying to fit me in soon.
Basically we’ve agreed on a 2-pipe mod to start with and then if I still long for some more power I can stage 2 the car (well, using gutted cats), then go back to him to have the backbox readjusted so I don’t have a proper chavvy sound, innit.
All in all I’m very happy and looking forward to the 2-pipe mod. Thanks to everyone for your input and advice on here.
Basically we’ve agreed on a 2-pipe mod to start with and then if I still long for some more power I can stage 2 the car (well, using gutted cats), then go back to him to have the backbox readjusted so I don’t have a proper chavvy sound, innit.
All in all I’m very happy and looking forward to the 2-pipe mod. Thanks to everyone for your input and advice on here.
Thought I’d update the thread!
I’ve had the 2-pipe mod for nearly a year now and the difference was and still is incredible. There is no debate; it should have come out the factory like it.
Now finding myself wanting more… so I’ve just booked in for a stage 2 remap and decat (gutting), cold start delete, and gearbox GTS flash.
Will consider lowering the car in the future, the arch gap at the front end is still doing my head in!
I’ve had the 2-pipe mod for nearly a year now and the difference was and still is incredible. There is no debate; it should have come out the factory like it.
Now finding myself wanting more… so I’ve just booked in for a stage 2 remap and decat (gutting), cold start delete, and gearbox GTS flash.
Will consider lowering the car in the future, the arch gap at the front end is still doing my head in!
MDubyaB said:
Did you get it done?
How has the car been since?
It’s been great. Sound is amazing and the torque improvement is fantastic.How has the car been since?
The horsepower was 401 stock, 414 out of the factory so a drop of 13bhp over 11 years isn’t too bad.
After the stage 2 got it retested and it increased up to 428bhp (both tests were at Surrey Rolling Road, which is a pretty accurate dyno).
The guy there said I could have got slightly more but my drivetrain was probably a little cold as I had been waiting around with two cars in front of me.
These cars getting dyno’d at other places at 440/450+ is always nonsense. They won’t get anywhere near that at SRR.
The car is a real beast now and a real handful.
Worth every penny.
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