Hartge Z3 M Coupé 5.0 V8 the one...

[GTRene]

Here the link to the story about the only real Hartge Z3 coupe wich is for sale btw, you can email me by my profile I guess.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=20729D492A2D...


Since looking for another car for a long time, I finally found one and bought it,
and what a car it is...

Hartge (Z47) Z3 coupe 5.0 with 6-speed and in Hartge Titan-silber

Started life as a prototype and show-car bought new by Herbert Hartge basis black M coupe 09-1998 see the German website from Hartge.
It came with the standard 3.2 engine wich was soon Hartge/tuned stroked to 3.5L later in 1999 the 4.7 V8 (also used by Ascari Ecosse 4.7) came in and the car became a real Hartge Z47 by then, and finally after a total of 24.700km on the car before, it became a 5.0L (4930cc) (Also used in the last 3 Ascari Ecosse 5.0) and left their factory/Hartge as sold in 2002 as the one and only ever made Hartge Z47 Z3 coupe 5.0 owned by Herbert hartge himself, to make room for the next generation cars like the Z4.

Herbert Hartge has been involved with cars since his youth. From 1969 to 1983, he was a successful racing driver at home and abroad, firstly in Formula V racing cars and then in touring cars, primarily BMWs, VWs and Fords.



My Z3 adventure begun with a Z3 M roadster 1997(Boston green), then a Z3 M coupe 1999(black), then again a Z3 M coupe 1999(black) then after a while again a Z3 M Coupé but one out the last series(281 LHD) the S54 with DSC3 late 2001(phoenixgelb metallic) zo after so many Z3 I thought about a fast Lotus Exige/Elise with 300+ hp or a Ferrari 355gtb or a Pantera GT5S and a TVR Tuscan V8 and some more...some were hard to get or just sold or to expensive for the car? anyway this car was also far away but the latest car salesman offered to bring it to my home! what a service and boy what a special nice and good looking and maintained car!
Also I discovered that the Z3 M coupé cars are really superb cars for all round use way better then the other cars so I would come back to Z3 for "sure" but so fast I did not know but a chance to own such unique car a one off is very rare so I had to do...

It was the car I saw last year on sale for a short while and I mailed the man and he told me I could still buy it...aaaaaaaaaaaa it was the one of car I was crazy about but way to expensive those days, and more a car to show what Hartge can do(building his own cars too) to convert such car from a Z3 M coupé into this Hartge Z3 Coupé 5.0 V8 with his own new Hartge chassis-number and details cost a fortune when you order that and that's why only one 5.0L was build, when you go to the Hartge pages and look under Z3 you see this car (at least till 2010 it was)

So its a car with History and I never thought I really could get my hands on that car jippie

Some changes I know compared to the "standard" Z3 M coupe from which this car uses the basis when it only had done 22.000km on it...

>>5.0L V8 around 530nm, they also said it has more power then they advertised (370ps) for their offered 5.0 V8 they talked about 420ps for this prototype.
>>since today 16-03-2010, I know how special this prototype engine is, its the engine they also use in the Ascari Ecosse 5.0 also the engine management with proof.
They made only 3 Ascari Ecosse with the Hartge 5.0 and one of those also used by Hartge for this/my Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0, thats why it has more power and uses a different engine then their series 5.0.
>>6 speed gearbox with short-shift
>>Special axle's
>>300km/h speedo and other rev ta-go(lower cause for V8)
>>nice alu pedals and handbrake lever and gear-knob.
>>special designed Hartge software(with a sticker under the bonnet on the box)
>>Hartge chassis-number and make also a Hartge plate under the bonnet show-able through the vents
>>Special exhaust 2 oval instead of 2x2 pipes and lighter too.
>>Special lightweight Kevlar bonnet with vents
>>Special handmade lower front with bigger vents to cool the oil-cooler.
>>Special bigger coolers and water-holders and a lot more under the hood.
>>KW3 chrome absorbers that can be set in height and firmness.
>>V8 emblems and ofcorse Hartge emblems
>>Hartge steering wheel(looks the same but is not! also with print)
>>Officially documents that its a real Hartge Z3 Coupé 5.0 so no longer called BMW or a converted car or replica.
>>Special suspension all around and many things more
>>Big Hartge multi-part wheels 19inch with 265/30-19inch on the rears and 235/35-19" on the fronts.
>>Hartge 5.0 engine covers
>>Car comes with the original German documents and Dutch documents.

That's what I could see, I have the car not that long so there could be more.

Its started life as a Z3 M Coupé in Sept 1998 and later a prototype for shows and testing, but in 1999? when the first V8 came in the 4.7, it became a real Hartge Z47.
its a official Hartge Z3 Coupé 5.0 (so no BMW with Hartge goodies) V8, here some older pictures most not so sharp though...but then you have a idea otherwise look at a Hartge dealer website under Z3 you find a picture too.





















GTRene

edited to make some pictures work again, also I have made a pdf file about the complete story of this Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 with all details when it was in Hartge's possession so from 1998 tot 2002 with a lot details and facts since I gathered more info through the years.
On request I can send the link for that when you are interested to buy this lovely one of car with lots of history and German and Dutch road documents.

edit: the link to the pdf file about how the story about this one off unique car wents see on top of this list.

edited for a better link to my pdf about the Hartge story.

Edited by GTRene on Sunday 10th June 19:45

[GTRene]

rassi said:

Amazing car! If you ever - however unlikely it is - get fed up with it, drop me a mail, VERY interested!

First I have to wait on my Dutch road registration but I guess that would be no problem as all paperwork is there(I hope) then I can drive it a while to feel all of it and see if I can live with it? only driven for an hour the day they brought it to me, and I drove "slow" (but even then just a toe on the pedal and the wheels try to dig in the road) because I have to get all registered first and have to get used to it, even though I had 3 Z3 M coupe's before this one is different...more hairy/scary its more a beast, the normal S50 or S54(my last M coupe) drives both very linear and "safe" this one though has so much grunt at low revs its more watch out I can bite back so I will come back to this.
Also this one has a 6-speed instead of the 5-speed BMW...also very very short gear-lever and very chunky short shifting....nice
The engine is very smooth though you can feel the power under the gas-pedal, Wednesday I drive to the RDW on a one day plate(for registering day only)
So I will keep the car for some period as you guessed but I want it to keep in a good shape so I will not drive it to long, then maybe later sell it on when and if a good offer come...that's later first a while waiting and then driving at least 2 or 3 times a week, but not on a track or so its the only 5.0 Hartge Z3 coupe so it have to be taken care of and to enjoy for other car lovers.
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 26th February 09:48

[GTRene]

road_terrorist said:

I love that last pic of the engine, great looking cam cover with a nice big 5.0! Looks very nice under the bonnet

So is that engine a 5.0L V8 from an E39 M5 with some modifications, or is is a complete custom build hartge engine from a stock BMW V8?

What she like to drive compared to a six cylinder M coupe? Do you notice more weight over the front or less? Or are you too busy fighting ferocious over-steer to notice!

Don't know for sure yet, think its complete custom build on the German fahrzeugbrief its 4930cc and there is a special Hartge sticker on the engine management that says Hartge own management don't change or try to read it its no standard something like that, contact Hartge, here is a picture of such sort engine maybe someone else know? at least I think this is the same? never had a BMW/Hartge V8 in a car of mine before so no experience only 2 TVR V8 engines...


the engine above looks like mine, but mine is different then the one's they put up for sale with just 370hp ;-)
mine is also a what older type (begin 1998 type) and came with 420hp (instead what the document says 350...that was for the type aproval from the also Z47 roadster that came with 350hp)
my hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 engine was develloped for the Ascari Ecosse the last 3 of them got this engine too, and hartge tested and used it in this very rare Z3.
for the type aproval they put a districtor in the inlet :-) ofcorse that is out the car now ;-)



GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Saturday 11th December 11:19

[GTRene]

maahny said:

Congratulations! Looks like an awesome find. Please post more pics of it and come over to www.z3mcoupe.com to show it off.

Thanks for the link, when Í've got the pictures back that the car taxer made I can do that, or when I have my plates in about 2 weeks or so, and yes this car was hard to find but I also looked at some big German websites and a bit further...firing up that engine is very strange you sit in a Z3(M) coupe but the sound is V8 smooth but powerfull very strange but also very special hope the roads stay a bit dry and not to cold...I've got a bit "used" to the DSC in my last Z3 M coupe S54...but this one warns you allready at low revs so thats nice too...wednesday my next drive to the RDW(SVA?) but full details I can only give after spending more time in it when my numberplates arive and ensurance is fully covered...can't wait
cheers.
GTRene

[GTRene]

thanks Alfa, Holland is weer een leuke auto rijker glad I'm the driver...
Hopefully RDW and licenseplates goes fast so I can drive and see how grippy the tarmac is
GTRene

[GTRene]

dinkel said:

Perfect hok René. Ik kom snel es op de koffie . . . als 't droog is

Is goed Dink, en anders zien we elkaar op de Wiesmann dag dit jaar? vreemd dat er nog geen open dag geboekt staat, heb ook een mailtje gestuurd wat weken terug maar nog niet wat gehoord, denk dat ze erg druk zijn met alles...
wordt vervolgd.
GTRene

[GTRene]

A little update here too

I did some nice discovery in my carfiles wich I have a lot out magazine's I bought over the years and in my BMW archive I found a 6 page article out a BMW magazine all about my car the Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 with the numberplates Herbert Hartge begun to drive it as his own car the MZG-Z510 I send a piece of copy of my Fahrzeugbrief with this as proof how nice is that, there are only a few mistakes in this article they said it started as a 3246cc but that was 3201 I think they made the mistake because it was in 2002 and by then the S54 was there but in 1998 it was the S50 with 3201cc.
Also they talk about 5.0 with 350hp but that was the 4.7 this 5.0 engines they put on 370hp but this one I have is the prototype and only real Hartge 5.0 Z3 coupe also as brand and had more power, the dealer I bought it from says it has now 430ps but I think 400ps is fine too but I did not tested it myself, here the article of my car back in 2002, the car started life by Hartge as a Z3 M coupe and by 23.672km it became a conversion for what they could do as Tuner and little carmanufactor, and on 03-08-2001 it officialy is docomented for roaduse as a Hartge Z47 Z3 coupé 5.0



here the mag cover of the article; now I need to find Total BMW October 2002 also a update about my Hartge with final specs? anyone can send that to me a copy by mail? please...








As I said the writer made a few minor mistakes about some specs...the 350hp is the 4.7 and the 5.0 has 370<>380hp though this car from Hartge personally has a bit more
They said around 430ps so 400ps sounds "save" to say I guess, anyway lots of torque to scare myself once in a while when I got a itch or a cramp in my leg when I'm driving it
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 14th February 15:16

[GTRene]

scotty_917 said:

Can GTRene or anybody else on this forum point me in the direction of some links they'll give me some more info on what the Z3 M Coupe's are like to live with, drive, servicing, where to buy, etc? Many thanks.

Hello scotty, the Z3 M coupe's are really good to live with on a daily basis, its a perfect all round car all year round, this Hartge is ofcorse a bit more like a beast and its my fifth Z3 M(1 was a roadster M)
The standard Z3 M coupe S50-32 made from 1998<>2001 uses the E36 M3 engine but has no DSC I've had 2 of those and if you use the right oil(Castrol TWS 10w/60 or Motul Le-mans 20w/60 F300) the car is reliable too when you buy a good one that is.
They are strong and fast and when you lower the springs a bit and put some 18 or 19inch wheels under them you have a very nice tool
If you like it a bit "saver" buy the S54 M coupe made from 2001<>2002 those use the later E46 M3 engine but the engine are a bit lowered in revs 7.500rpm instead of the 8.000rpm and be sure you buy the updated engine! there were recalls from 2001 till 2003 otherwise when you use a lot of high revs the engine worns out fast only the updated engine's or newer engines and with the right strong oil you have no problem.
My last S54 m coupe 'had the newer 2003 engine, but it needed new followers so I changed them all for race versions and put a pair sharp schrick cams in them and more stuff so all new head stuff and also the latest Z4 M coupe oil-pump even mine was OK but the later one is stronger
Buy one and try one, a good damage free example and with 18 or 19inch and lowered suspension is a all day usable blast and feels very solid too, and they are rare the later model the rarest though...OK my Hartge is the rarest but that's a different story, have fun, ow and when you adjust the seat you have a better sit in those then the GT3 at least that is what I find.
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 26th February 09:52

[GTRene]

scotty_917 said:

Thanks 'Rene!

Are you saying the S50 is a better engine than the S54; provided it's been maintained properly?

PS...you're Hartge V8 looks great...the new bonnet/hood is especially wicked!!!

The S50 (a fresh one) is better then the first S54 engine's (2001<>begin 2003) but the later or updated S54 engine's are very good, also more power and just a bit more...?? also look more smooth on the outside and a bit lighter I believe, they use less parts and all is electronically also drive by wire throttle, and if you have cruiscontrol that's also electronic and ofcorse the "best" part when you have the late version DSC3 that's really a nice item on those cars, its switchable and aloud a bit wheel-spin but saves you in unexpected situations...or you can use it a bit harder because it helps you a bit when you over enthusiastic
The E36 engines have mostly time-chain noise mostly due to a bad chain tensioner(so you do not need to replace all!) but when always using the best oil and not the normal castrol 10w/60 RS but the TWS or Motul then its a good engine with lots of power and economic too! compared to other fast cars(Porsche cars are also economic for their power)
those are my own experiences over the years and with a lot BMW M cars, both engine's are great provided it's been maintained properly.
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 26th February 09:54

[GTRene]

a good E30 M3 is nice too(had about 5 in my carlive) a real nice sporty with history classic...only the 4cill I do not like that much, I mean those days a TD can be faster then that, a Alpina B6S with 6 pot and 265ps is a bit better but not as good as the Hartge h35? anyway a E30 with 6 pot 3.5 M5 engine, but also rare but there are a few in the UK at least one origenal(from 7 me thinks)
The Z3 M coupe is at a "low" price now at least for what you get and I guess it goes the same route as the M3 E30 with prices so first a bit down...then they come back again as the E30 M3 did, my thought anyway

Ow...about the Wiesmann and specialy the GT its also way to much for me and then you have to pay 45% bpm apart from the 19% BTW aaaaaaaaaaaaaa...so have to wait a few years
GTRene

[GTRene]

Thanks Martin I think I will with occasionally extra hartbeatings but thats a sign your alive.
GTRene

[GTRene]

thanks...

Driving to the RDW was tricky with more then 510nm on tap at low revs...the road was damped so in second gear to much power, even in third gear wheel-spin...already had a fast cop on a motorbike standing next to me who was a bit angry of my driving style but there was nobody and I "know" what I do! but he said suppose their was a bike crossing the street?! well I looked for that and no bike in a mile! suppose this and suppose that? when your at home a plain can crash on you! aaaaa hate this sort of police! I know what they mean but don't put everybody in the same line? ofcorse some are bad drivers and things can go wrong but on that spot when your in "control" and whit some experience I hate it to be patronized and or to be nannied? the drive was superb thou very much torque maybe to much even...its fast ofcorse and real nice gearshifts(short-shift and precise) even when cold the car looks like a normal M coupe but the ride is way different very easy and smooth...also very hungry on the accelerator so very very carefully with that, lucky when the wheels spin there is a sper? so that the wheels spin the same way so not that big side steps.

Today I was at the RDW for car check, the man who checked my car was amazed and so were the others they never seen one and I explained that that is possible because there is only one the man also took pictures of the cat for his private collection he said this is a once in a lifetime and special so can I make some pictures, also when I fired the engine up people come and look...3 minor things "wrong" a light-bulb not good enough and already renewed and reset on the perfect height.
A wheel bearing worn a bit and a brake-hose damaged a bit so have to renew those too...tomorrow at the dealer and then a quick check again..

Good news the Hartge was not in the Dutch system so I'm officially the first Hartge as a brand owner in Holland they have to get a special code to get that done and Hartge is now also in the Dutch RDW for the first time, what a simple boy can achieve lol...

Bin to the BMW dealer for parts and repair and they had a lot of questions about the car and all came around the car when I brought it in the garage to check the lights and stuff that was nice...

GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 26th February 09:57

[GTRene]

So you also have S54...great cars also the coupé I guess

people I've got to find something, a copy of the magazine of Total BMW October 2002 I just discover by looking at the back issues on a website that in October they did a update about my car? so hopefully too the right specs and info I'm very very curious whats in that mag...! here a copy from the cover if anyone still have that mag, can you send me a copy from it by my mail? please or put it completed in this thread...
Or when you don't need the magazine anymore you may send it then I can put them on the pc, thanks, I'm looking for this magazine;


GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 14th February 15:24

[GTRene]

Update, today the final inspection for Dutch roads on my Hartge(needed a new bulb, wheelbearing and brakehose) and now my Hartge is the first Hartge on Dutch roads(so no BMW but Hartge) they needed to put in new codes to do that also they thought the Z47 manufactor code could be better and after a lot hassle the name for Dutch roads is "Z3 coupe 5.0" how cool is that they said because its the only one in the world we make it sound good too they where proud to check my car and made pictures too

Its realy a beast even in third gear wheelspin, lots of torque, almost to much specialy in first and second, lucky for me I've got 6 gears to play with
I'm getting a bit more used to it I mean can play with it a bit...used to it is a big word with that much torque at low revs, only my little toe I use in first and second what a sound...realy love it
GTRene

[GTRene]

lol...oeps

S54 nice did yours also get the update or a new engine? my ex S54 did get a whole new engine in 2004 bmw paid but that was 3.500km befor I bought it.
GTRene

[GTRene]

loach said:

Awesome, GTRene - just awesome. Love it. Was it expensive? How'd you find it?

It really is awesome with that much torque standard 510nm and 370ps but this one has more being the only one and also the prototype, it will cost me tires I'm afraid but it feels really special too so ok.

It was "expensive" and ofcorse hard to find, but since its the only real Hartge 5.0 in the world the price was OK, I now have a appraisal report? that lucky for me says its more worth then I payed for and its a realistic rapport, though I do not think I will leave the car for that money first enjoy it when I occasionally drive it about 2 times a week.

First I saw it on sale I think it was back in 2002 Herbert Hartge put it on sale then...but it was to expensive for me then it was gone for a while and in 2006 I saw it on sale again but only a short period then they put it back but I had still a copy of that add on my PC since I was looking for special cars more then a year but could not buy because my ex S54 Z3 m coupe was still not sold(also no hurry since it is a fantastic car but wanted something else after owning 3 of those cars)
You have an impressive list too of nice cars also a Z3 M coupe what year and specs?
cheers
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 26th February 09:58

[GTRene]

a little update, I have the plates and did some drives...its fast and doing just over 200km/h in 4th gear leaving 2 gears to go in the Hartge( 6 speed) and seeing 150/160km/h at around 3.000rpm means that indeed as the story suggest 300km/h is possible...have to try that soon in Germany ofcorse thats only 30min from my house
A monster it is, the last owner said it has now 430ps? anyway with more then 530nm at low revs I feel sorry for the tires, here a little peak under the bonnet it is the Officialy one of Hartge Z3 coupe 5.0 ow, and its fast too I dig a lot in the tarmac...but need new tires so maybe then its a bit better






GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Saturday 11th December 11:25

[GTRene]

richburley said:

How does it compare with the Z8?

Never driven a Z8 but with more torque in mine at also lower revs and much lower weight and no DSC to save you only a good sper you can amagine what happens
Its a monster you almost have to drive barefoot because its very sensitive when you ever driven a TVR Griffith but then with almost 100ps more you have a idea only its a bit more refined in running and has a better rev band to use all the way to the limiterrrr
GTRene

[GTRene]

dinkel said:

Engine doesn't really compare to the Griff right?

yep, just like that beast only more power and a bit more refined, just a bit but a better rev use through the hole range
GTRene

[GTRene]

A little update today I did a little D-tour over the German Autobahn and there was a free gap so I floored it and see if I could hit 300km/h....and it did also little room for more but at 300km/h there's a big wall of air to go through and that slows the car down...but I think 310km/h is possible its a monster its the first time in my live I managed to get that speed finally I'm a member of the 300+ club, and the car still felt stable! Hartge did a good job I must say...
GTRene