Submariner going - it was lust, not love
Discussion
I've had my Sub date 16610 for four weeks, and after chasing this model for many months so as to join the "Sports Watch" clan, I'm afraid I don't love it, so I'm going back to a DJ after my 15 years with my 36mm TT...
I never thought the 36mm too small on my 7 1/2" wrist until I entered the world of big-ness that watch buying has become. But somewhere along that journey my head has been turned to the big watch fashion and so when I tried my DJ on after three weeks of the 40mm Sub, it cemented my new view that it was too small. Strange how the mind works!
Anyhow, the Sub of course is a completely different look. Silver and black instead of silver and gold, and it's this two tone look, as well as the beauty and robustness of the jubilee bracelet and fluted bezel over the plainer, more damageable, parts of the Sub ("tool" watch. how?) that has me back at my AD once more.
The new 36mm DJ is also too small for me, the DJ2 (they had one) a little too chunky. But the newer DJ41 fits the bill (and my wrist) fine and gets me back to where my subconscious thinks I should be... with something a little more classy, classic, and shiny gold on my wrist.
It will be TT again, jubilee & fluted, and I'm rather liking the quirkiness of the "Wimbledon" dial, just back out on the DJ41 after being seen on the DJ2...
The other dial I'm quite liking is plain silver, but I'm not sure about the over-lumed white batons with gold edges. White on silver looks a little mis-matched. What do you think?...
Having said that, the Wimbledon has the odd single lumed baton at 9 O'Clock. What's that all about? I have my own theories, of which there are three. But what do you think was going on in the mind of the designer?
I have the Wimbledon on hold for me at present. Will it stand the test of time, it being "unusual", or am I better buying a classic, albeit rather more plain and staid?
Although I won't lose money on the Sub, I have to get it right this time. Oh... and I know I'll lose thousands on the DJ, but over the next 15 years or so this won't hurt so much. Better to love what I wear. Of course my wife's purchase of her first new Rolex a few weeks back has had no influence on me whatsoever!
I never thought the 36mm too small on my 7 1/2" wrist until I entered the world of big-ness that watch buying has become. But somewhere along that journey my head has been turned to the big watch fashion and so when I tried my DJ on after three weeks of the 40mm Sub, it cemented my new view that it was too small. Strange how the mind works!
Anyhow, the Sub of course is a completely different look. Silver and black instead of silver and gold, and it's this two tone look, as well as the beauty and robustness of the jubilee bracelet and fluted bezel over the plainer, more damageable, parts of the Sub ("tool" watch. how?) that has me back at my AD once more.
The new 36mm DJ is also too small for me, the DJ2 (they had one) a little too chunky. But the newer DJ41 fits the bill (and my wrist) fine and gets me back to where my subconscious thinks I should be... with something a little more classy, classic, and shiny gold on my wrist.
It will be TT again, jubilee & fluted, and I'm rather liking the quirkiness of the "Wimbledon" dial, just back out on the DJ41 after being seen on the DJ2...
The other dial I'm quite liking is plain silver, but I'm not sure about the over-lumed white batons with gold edges. White on silver looks a little mis-matched. What do you think?...
Having said that, the Wimbledon has the odd single lumed baton at 9 O'Clock. What's that all about? I have my own theories, of which there are three. But what do you think was going on in the mind of the designer?
I have the Wimbledon on hold for me at present. Will it stand the test of time, it being "unusual", or am I better buying a classic, albeit rather more plain and staid?
Although I won't lose money on the Sub, I have to get it right this time. Oh... and I know I'll lose thousands on the DJ, but over the next 15 years or so this won't hurt so much. Better to love what I wear. Of course my wife's purchase of her first new Rolex a few weeks back has had no influence on me whatsoever!
I realise the Sub is a special watch. Special for its heritage and being one of the early dive watches, as well as being well made.
But its look, to me, is a little too anonymous. So many "homage" versions from other manufacturers. It has become just another Sports Watch to me. Before I changed to one, I bought a few of said "cheapies" to see if I liked the look...
That I never wore any of these out of the house was, I thought, because I'd rather be wearing my old DJ. But I'd thought that was because I'd hate to be wearing a cheap watch when I could have a Rolex on my wrist. However now, on reflection, I'm sure it was more to do with the look of the DJ and that I'd worn it for so long my subconscious was telling me that it was the norm so why wear a strange looking watch?
This has turned out to be the case with the Sub. It's not that it looks bad, just different to what I've become used to and I just can't get away from the DJ look. It is also fair to say from a practical perspective the oyster bracelet shows scratches far, far, more than the cleverly rounded and intricate jubilee. The latter does a conjuring trick on the eyes to look pristine even after 15 years of daily wear, as does the fluted bezel.
At least I've got the Sports Watch "thing" out of my system. It's been at the expense of my 36mm DJ, which I p/ex'd for £1,000 more than I paid for it in 2002 (2nd hand), but trying on a new 36mm DJ last week it looked like a woman's watch to my "altered" mind on the subject of size, and I was happy to concede that 36mm doesn't fit my new perspective.
It'll also be at the expense of buying a new Rolex when my old DJ had plateau'd depreciation-wise. Still, most things we enjoy cost money; cars; women; holidays... why not a rather lovely watch?
But its look, to me, is a little too anonymous. So many "homage" versions from other manufacturers. It has become just another Sports Watch to me. Before I changed to one, I bought a few of said "cheapies" to see if I liked the look...
That I never wore any of these out of the house was, I thought, because I'd rather be wearing my old DJ. But I'd thought that was because I'd hate to be wearing a cheap watch when I could have a Rolex on my wrist. However now, on reflection, I'm sure it was more to do with the look of the DJ and that I'd worn it for so long my subconscious was telling me that it was the norm so why wear a strange looking watch?
This has turned out to be the case with the Sub. It's not that it looks bad, just different to what I've become used to and I just can't get away from the DJ look. It is also fair to say from a practical perspective the oyster bracelet shows scratches far, far, more than the cleverly rounded and intricate jubilee. The latter does a conjuring trick on the eyes to look pristine even after 15 years of daily wear, as does the fluted bezel.
At least I've got the Sports Watch "thing" out of my system. It's been at the expense of my 36mm DJ, which I p/ex'd for £1,000 more than I paid for it in 2002 (2nd hand), but trying on a new 36mm DJ last week it looked like a woman's watch to my "altered" mind on the subject of size, and I was happy to concede that 36mm doesn't fit my new perspective.
It'll also be at the expense of buying a new Rolex when my old DJ had plateau'd depreciation-wise. Still, most things we enjoy cost money; cars; women; holidays... why not a rather lovely watch?
desolate said:
If you are going back to a DJ why only consider Rolex?
Plenty of lovely watches that do a similar job.
Fair point, but to open up that can of worms may kill me!Plenty of lovely watches that do a similar job.
No, I'm a Rolex fan for now, and I don't see that changing.
My wife also, especially after her brief Cartier fling. She couldn't love the Tank Francaise either.
ou sont les biscuits said:
I've always presumed that they did it to balance up the dial - the lume plot matches the white date window on the other side. But it doesn't quite work for me.
FWIW I had a Datejust II and got shot of it because it was just too big on my 7 1/4" wrist.
I tried the DJII as well, side by side with a couple of DJ41's but it was too chunky on my 7 1/2" wrist. DJ41 fitted perfectly.FWIW I had a Datejust II and got shot of it because it was just too big on my 7 1/4" wrist.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I do like that Wimbledon face one, but it would appear a more feminine colour scheme to my eyes. The Rolesor 41 in blue however..
Can't see the feminine look of the Wimbledon dial personally? Can't get blue dial on the DJ41 on the configurator - are you sure it's available in that mix?Chris Stott said:
My wife bought me a DJ as an engagement present in 1999... blue face, same as above, but with Jubilee bracelet. I still love it, but they are so tiny. I hardly ever wear it nowadays... maybe I should chop it in for a 41.
I got a great p/ex price for my DJ36 when traded against my wife's new DJ31 a few weeks back. Why not ask?terrydacktal said:
Aren't you embarrassed when you read back stuff like this?
A little, yes. But if it helps others not to make the same mistake that's fine. Just being honest about my "journey"!
don logan said:
You seem to be very honest and I think you admit to things that I most people wouldn't
With that in mind, and not wanting to offend you I must say that the very first time I saw one of your posts I was struck by what a Rolex might mean to you, I seem to remember a sense of desperation, but more about the brand in general and today you've reminded me of that feeling, it's what reminded me of the first of your posts that I read!
Interesting. I wonder what I was (am) desperate for? A change maybe, or a constant change? I was perfectly happy with my DJ36 for 15 years, never looked at another watch or had any interest in doing so, and then about four months ago found myself researching the Rolex sports models after my son expressed an interest in a Tag sports watch and we persuaded him to look at Rolex as "better value." Then of course I became sucked into those models, and the online "hype" around them, which led to where I am now.With that in mind, and not wanting to offend you I must say that the very first time I saw one of your posts I was struck by what a Rolex might mean to you, I seem to remember a sense of desperation, but more about the brand in general and today you've reminded me of that feeling, it's what reminded me of the first of your posts that I read!
I do have a habit of "collecting" so as to find the perfect item within a new hobby. Over the years I've bought loads of cameras, and ended up with one, perfect for me. Then target rifles and pistols, up to around 30 at one stage, until I selected one of each which suited me. Saxophones next, trying 50 or 60 until I found the right one, well two, alto and tenor. But I didn't feel "desperate", in fact I enjoyed the research and "hunt" for all of these. But we're only talking £100 to £2000 for any of these items, not £9,000-10,000 for a new Rolex, so doing the same when watch hunting is not an option.
But then ONE watch isn't a hobby is it. It's a day to day item for telling the time. So the only desperation I feel is that I now choose a watch which I'll be happy with for another 15 years, and don't keep chopping and changing which will lose me money, especially with something like a DJ. I have no compulsion to own more than one high end watch anyway.
What other desperation do you detect? Throughout this process I've thought more and more about the subconscious and psychological side of watch buying and so I'd be interested if you could expand on your observations as it may help with what choices I now make.
don logan said:
You're a funny guy!
What I meant buy desperate was that you have seemed desperate to buy a Rolex in particular but didn't really know which one which then gave me the IMPRESSION that you only needed a reason why someone else thinks a particular model is a good idea to give you the green light!
I read the whole GMT thread as it was evolving and I kept thinking - does he actually like anything or does he just want to buy another Rolex for Rolex sake, I also thought you were a massive Rolex snob!
What defines "snob"?What I meant buy desperate was that you have seemed desperate to buy a Rolex in particular but didn't really know which one which then gave me the IMPRESSION that you only needed a reason why someone else thinks a particular model is a good idea to give you the green light!
I read the whole GMT thread as it was evolving and I kept thinking - does he actually like anything or does he just want to buy another Rolex for Rolex sake, I also thought you were a massive Rolex snob!
Edited by don logan on Tuesday 22 August 18:44
Blinkered to every other brand perhaps?
desolate said:
Surely it's fair to say you don't want a watch, you want a Rolex?
Yes, that's correct. Does that make me a Rolex snob? I think it still does, as I disregard every other high end brand, mostly through ignorance. But having owned one for 15 years surely makes it a little more acceptable? We've had 10 BMWs over 31 years too. Could I be a BMW snob also?
El stovey said:
Isn’t it more about being brand obsessed full stop and also constantly wanting stuff.
Yes, but I've always admitted to being shallow.No, hang on... BMWs are (or were) great cars. Rolex are great watches. Why change brand if one absolutely works for you over a long period of time?
I've also been married 30 years.
Loyal. I think that's a better word to sum up what could be called obsessive.
As for constantly wanting stuff, that's not wearing the same watch for 15 years and then making an error of judgement. That's just making an error of judgement before settling down with another (hopefully) great watch for another 15 years.
Plenty here ARE both obsessive and wanting more stuff - those with big collections of watches. That's not my intention.
desolate said:
What is you like about "Rolex"?
Is it the aspirational nature of the brand? - BMW is quite an aspirational car brand as well I suppose.
I'm not sure, but prior to buying my DJ in 2002 I'd bought watches which wore out. Raymond Weil, Maurice Lecroix, Ebel, all had issues as I recall. Then my wife traded her Ebel for a pre-owned DJ26 and the shop in Warwick had the DJ36 also, which I liked and so bought on the spot. For me at that point Rolex was the pinnacle of watch brands, and still is. I have looked at other brands but few do anything for me aesthetically. That may also be because I have an image of a TT DJ imprinted in my mind and so that's what I expect to see on my wrist, having seen one there for 15 years.Is it the aspirational nature of the brand? - BMW is quite an aspirational car brand as well I suppose.
No doubt some of these reasons applied: https://www.quora.com/Why-would-anyone-buy-a-Rolex...
Whatever it was that appealed in 2002, and my mind is understandably misty, now my "go to" watch brand is Rolex without much of a thought.
If I'd been happy with Mars bars for 15 years then I'd go and buy another Mars bar. Why change? (NB. Tried a Hershey bar once in Florida - spat it out!). But what I have now done is to assume all Mars chocolate is equal and made the mistake of buying a Milky Way, thinking it too would satisfy.
BMW lost their way when Chris Bangle took over design. I was given a 316 as a company car in 1986 and once again liked what it did so followed the brand, latterly hanging on to my E46 for nine years but when it had to go there was no suitable model to take its place. I briefly tried Merc, Audi, and now Porsche. So I have changed car brand (we still have a BMW SAV which does a different job.)
If Rolex suddenly started making watches which looked like PPs or APs I guess I'd have to jump ship and that may also cause a hiccup, leaving me floundering around amongst the other brands trying to find a replacement, as with the car. So far, apart from size and dials, the DJ has remained pretty much intact as an iconic design.
Rather than aspiring to a Rolex, and I think I'm past that stage, I'd say I've plateaued. There may be better watches, more expensive watches, cheaper watches which are as well made, but none hold my attention or interest. I'm sure there are others who feel precisely the same about their favourite brand. How a brand gains that title could be for a myriad of personal reasons.
Thing is... the jubilee shows very little from scratches as it has no large flat surfaces like the oyster. I saw a 2 year old TT oyster at the AD, just come in as a p/ex, and the pcls looked awful. Far worse than my old jubilee after 15 years. Because of the curved links the light doesn't pick up so much of a scratch when reflected.
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