Any Laser Dinghy Experts out there?

[Marcellus]

I need some help!!

I'm a "not too shabby" Laser sailor, sail most weekends throughout the year and have just finished 3rd in this Summer Championships by 2.3points.

Looking at my performance where I struggle is upwind when the wind is +20kts.

During the summer season (30weeks) I can lose these as discards but during the Winter when there's less races (22) and more frequency of 20+kts races I need to address the issue.

I've tried;
- Masses of Cunningham - getting the crinked eye on the boom if need be!
- Flatten the sail - with more Kicker and outhaul!
- just being more physical - (hike harder and then some more) and yes it's had shown some benefit but teh others who I'm up against aren't as fit/strong as me and don't seem to suffer as much, so there must be more than pure power!!

I need to assume;
- My weight will be constant (82kgs)
- My height will be contact (5'8")
- My fitness is quite good

So, does anyone have a couple of tips that I can try to improve my upwind strong wind technique?

[Marcellus]

I have been dropping to a Radial and doing rather well with it and yes a well sailed Radial will beat a badly sailed Full.

Hiwever, we're Fleet Racing so if i do use a Radial it doesn't count toward the championships.

[Marcellus]

Hard-Drive said:

Either get down the pie shop, or get a proper boat that has bits of wire to stop the mast flopping around when it's windy.

HTH.

Edited by Hard-Drive on Sunday 8th November 09:03

Ever helpful Ian..... and you know what after today there's something to be said for that, however there's only one Fleet with wires that's worth sailing with at the club and after "a little incident" during the Summer which you heard iirc I think I'm persona non garcia there!!

Thanks for everyone elses comments, in genreal response;

Tactics are always my downfall but at least they're constantly crap!!

Up wind it's boat speed, and yes constantly over powered, I look around and will be doing quite well in boat speed terms and then a gust will hit, the boat will heal and then I just can't get the bugger flat, all speed gone and back to get the boat going again!!

I think that although I'm slightly lighter and shorter than Messrs Ainslee & Goddison when they were at their Laser prime I think they're both a good bit younger (less than half my age!!) and fitter than I am!!

Legs and back straight hiker shorts in and locked!!

From what everyone has said it seems as though I'm reacting to the wind/gusts as opposed to anticipating them, I think that's what I'll try and focus on!!

Still had a cracking couple races today;
In the 1st race nailed the line with a port flyer, was nicely clear of everyone, went for a tack and missed toe straps with both feet, cue a backwards roll in to the water and much piss taking from the rest of the start (1st race is a warm up handicap race so all a bit of fun really)

In the main race; gusty winds, 11 lasers on the start line, upset a few by asking for room for an obstruction (committee boat), 1st placed boat did his usual disappearing act, 2nd and 3rd got a great lift and broke the wind cycle and sailed away then 4th, 5th & 6th were 3 abreast going into the last mark after 72 minutes of swapping places, one went low, one went high and the other went through the middle... going high was not the right choice so I ended up 6th!

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

You didn't ask for room for an obstruction on the start line I hope?

As others have said keeping the boat flat is the key. In the 300 we actually try to heel to windward a bit. Boat whisperer also recommends this for the laser I think, but I struggled with lower freeboard when I sailed a laser. A bit of positive windward heel supposedly does a couple of things. It allows you a split second longer to sheet out when a gust hits as you will then be upright, not heeled to leeward if a it slow. It also supposedly means that the boat is wanting to bear off the wind due to hull shape and to counter this you are steering up into the wind and for some reason I haven't quite figured this appears to gain you height to windward.

Do you have any video of you going upwind when you're overpowered? Can you see if your boat is as flat as anyone else's in front of you? Won't be such an issue in that much wind but the laser rudder is crap and so you will lose speed the more you use it. Are you just using it to steer or do you heel the boat as well?

Ok didn't ask for room per se, but when someonetried to call windward on me i pointed out the obstruction.

There's some footage of me in the 1st 30seconds of this video (177886 is me) https://vimeo.com/113008007. (Later on if you watch that far you can see me getting wrong, again an again)

Edited by Marcellus on Sunday 8th November 22:41

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

If you're confused about what you can and can't do, find Jeremy and ask as he's a guru at this sort of thing.

By coincidence we did have this exact "chat with Jeremy" this very morning...... now don't go asking me for rule numbers and sub-sections as you know I'm crap at those, but basically he was saying if you are next to the committee boat and have your bow past its' rear most part no-one can luff or push you over the line even if they have rights to do so as your only option is to go in a straight line past the committee boat and effectively start (or be over the line at the start but as there's no reference to how fast you must be travelling you're unlikely to be so if you're cute).

To protect against this if you think someone might try and pinch in at that end then you need to stop them getting there in the 1st place, but if you leave the door open then someone may barge in and you're stuffed.

[Marcellus]

To better explain my understanding of committee boat rules here are some pretty piccies;



In the top one Boat A has to give Boat B nothing, ie Boat B cannot ask for room.

In the bottom one Boat A cannot force Boat B on to the committee boat as Boat B has gone past the back of the Committee Boat, so effectively Boat A has to give Boat B room to pass by the Obstruction.

Have I understood it wrongly?

[Marcellus]

ooo yes the Black Flag of shame... iirc i fell foul of that once!!!

[Marcellus]

Seriously though Chris, bearing in mind my previous comment on Tactics, in the 2nd diagram if it were a committee boat biased line if I'm right why hasn't Boat B got itself into the money seats as it can hammer the line at full chat and is the most windward boat therefore in control of the Fleet?

[Marcellus]

alistairolsen said:

How can you get to the latter situation without passing through the former?

Once there, whether its an obstruction is largely irrelevant, both parties have an onus to avoid a collision regardless but the windward boat should have bailed out long ago by now and as the leeward boat I'd give them room to avoid the collision, protest them for being there in the first place and expect them to tack off out of the way ASAP.

Quite easily really, if A doesn't shut the door early enough or B has better boat speed, don't forget that in luffing up boat A can't go head to wind or tack, I'll admit it's aggressive elbows out sailing but if it's the difference between hitting the line at full chat and in clear wind for and in control of the 1st beat then worth th effort (btw i have had my understanding of the rule verified)

[Marcellus]

IforB said:

Here's Mr Goodison's take on upwind in a heavy blow in a Laser.

My tips would be just concentrate on keeping the boat flat, don't worry about easing over a meter of sheet. Go as hard as possible on the vang and dunno but leave about 50mm gap on the boom so there is a little bit of shape in the outhaul.

Superb, well wish me luck, Sundays looks like 20+knots gusting 40!!

My planned technique will be;
- Use my #2 sail,
- crank the vang & cunningham & outhaul to the max.
- hikehard and then some
- Sailing slightly off the wind so as not to pinch
- anticipate, ease, hike, trim

I will report back after the races!

[Marcellus]

,kOK so went out today and lived to tell the tale.

The wind averaged 30kts with a max gust of 49kts so "pretty fruity".

I will be honest and say that I did wimp out a little and used the Gaydial but I was 1 of only 2 boats in the race, the other being a Laser with a full rig sailed by probably the best all round sailor in the club.

Even thought i knew I would be discarding I decided to go out and practice in line with plan.

I hiked and then hiked a little more, I sailed off the wind although I had to remind myself to at some points and not to pinch for the windward mark.

I watched for the gusts, eased before them, hiked more and then trimmed the sail one I was in there to get the squirt of acceleration, when I timed this squirt with the wave I could feel I was on the money and I ploughed through the wave and came out the other side faster than I went in!!

The 1st lap was good, I kept the other Laser honest, ahead as we were going into the windward mark, but he got me on the mark rounding, downwind there was very little in it and when I saw him "chicken Gybe" I decided to follow suit and we nailed it in to the leaward mark then it was a bit fetchy back to the gate.

I made up water on the beat up to the 1st mark with the hike, ease, hike some more, trim technique but screwed up a tack and had a little dip, not a swim just felt my back get wet before I got the power back on.

On the reach across the water, I saw him go in hard and fast as a gust hit... this actually bent his top section sideways I later found out so he DNF'd!

I saw the gust closing in to me so stupidly eased the main, damn bugger blast, windward capsize with me out of the back of the boat which then rited itself and sailed off and then capsized.

I started to swim chasing a boat being blown away from em but then saw one of our trusty safety boats coming so waited, he dropped me back to beside my boat and I righted and sailed off, gybed at full speed, fetched to the gate to win the race................. that was until I returned to shore and was asked "was I in immediate danger?" no, or "was I ill?" - No., "was I injured" - No......... So, bugger DSQ'd for external assistance!!

However, the whole purpose of the training was sailing off the wind, ease, hike trim seemed to pay dividends and morally I won!!

Edited by Marcellus on Sunday 15th November 14:43

[Marcellus]

Just to add some photos of yesterday that have come through;





(it's a grimace not smile)

These ones aren't of me but the other Laser and general to give the feel of the day;

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

Wow, thought it was breezy. Fair play to you and Andrew for going out. Looks far more sea like than a 700 acre lake in the midlands!

Forecast of this weekends fun looks good too.............. when's the latest I can amend my entry from Full to Gaydial?

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

Don't really know. Probably on the day, but remember you'll have to stick with whichever rig you choose both days if you want both days to add together for your final result. I'd have to check but pretty sure if you change on Sunday you'd be scored as two different entries.

No need to check, I know the answer to that one, I'll have to keep same rig all weekend to get a result.....

It's touch and go at the moment; current forecast for the Saturday afternoon when we're doing 3 or 4 races so sailing for 4/5 hours is for 20 gusting 30 and then on Sunday for the 2 hour pursuit is 17 gusting 25 so whilst Radial may seem under powered for Sunday there'll be the fatigue from the Saturday to contend with.

I think I'll sleep well on Sunday

[Marcellus]

On permanent loop!

For those that haven't ; http://youtu.be/OYM6VfTXiSg

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

May I critique a couple of your "moments in the spotlight"?

by all means... skip over the gybe/capsize one though

[Marcellus]

Thanks Chris, there's an element that I do need to work on all of the things you pointed out!

With the reaching I think the sequence at around the 00:47 and 02:49 is more reflective of what I was trying to do but then the 00:01:36 is probably more reflective of what I usually end up doing, I think I was trying to "get high" and not trimming well enough!

Leeward mark rounding, tbh mine is crap, at best 50/50, sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't, and that one was particularly bad, in my defence; screaming reach, into a mark, Fireball coming through below me at speed, and then a bloody 800 coming toward me that was genuinely a wtf moment bearing away, to miss the 800 but not too much that I impeded the Fireball, no prep at all for teh rounding just look at how much kicker there isn't, usually my set up is when approaching the mark; kicker, centreboard, cunningham then outhaul and in wide out tight. BUt as you say pretty crap, and something I need to work on much more, this summer I went and practiced the bear away, next summer it'll be drills on leeward mark rounding!!

That tack, Andy and I did have a chat about it and agreed that on the water there were no issues but the footage seems to make it all seem very close, I'd say usually I try and "feed the tiller" in for the tack not push and hope, but I think that by that stage tiredness was coming in so technique slipping!!

Thanks for the offer on both the 300 and B14 I will more than likely take you up on both, I have a score to settle on the 300!

[Marcellus]

chrisga said:

I didn't want my critique to sound like criticism, you were going well and its typical when the cameras on my sailing always turns to st!

God No, your input is really welcomed!!

I struggle in strong winds (which I think Saturday counts as) and rarely get video of me as the Cameraman is often one of those I'm fighting with (albeit he came 4th last season on 50 points versus my 37.3), he knew I wanted footage so took loads of me, I think in the 3rd race he followed me for couple of whole laps.... he commented abotu my inconsistency rounding the leeward mark but left me when he saw my tiller extension come separate from the tiller on the beat resulting in a swim, he did say the other rounding was bob on but boring on film!!