50 years since the end of steam on BR Southern Region

[rs1952]

Although railways seem to be a minority interest in Boats Plane and Trains, if anyone is interested the weekend of 8th and 9th July marked 50 years since the end of steam traction between Waterloo and Salisbury, and Waterloo, Southampton and Bournemouth.

I took myself off down to the area just recently to get some “then and now” shots of various locations, and I have posted the first two in the series on Flickr:

Southampton 1st October 1966 and 5 the July 2017: https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3523991...

Whitchurch North 1st June 1967 and 27th June 2017: https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3595807...

More will follow as I get around to writing the captions

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

Well, I appreciate those if no one else does. Where's the place in the second pic? It has no third rail.

Whitchurch (formerly Whitchurch North) between Basingstoke and Andover.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.2374797,-1.33546...

[rs1952]

Another one has been uploaded, this time depicting Eastleigh 50 years apart - the train now standing in the car park...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3576795...

[rs1952]

The next one, comparing March 1967 and July 2017's fast trains from Southampton to Portsmouth, is now on Flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3548573...

[rs1952]

Micheldever has now been added to the comparison series:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3633754...

[rs1952]

The next comparison shot has been posted on Flickr showing Wareham:

21st March 1967 - 41320 on the MRTS "Hants & Dorset Branch Flyer"
8th July 2017 - D6515 with the 1319 to Swanage (33025 was on the other end if anyone is interested)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3554608...

[rs1952]

The latest upload - Waterloo 50 year on - vanished scenes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3628169...

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

8th July 2017 - D6515 with the 1319 to Swanage (33025 was on the other end if anyone is interested)

They should have got a Class 33 plus 4TC for that gig. In blue and grey. Does such a combination survive?

I didn't actually say so in the Flickr caption but the coaching stock is a 4TC set that London Transport acquired back in the 90s primarily for their "Steam on the Met" events. It has been painted in LT red/maroon ever since.

I don't know of any 33s in blue and grey but that's not to say there isn't one

[rs1952]

The latest then and now shot has been uploaded - Weymouth Jersey Sidings 1967 and 2017

For those with more of a Western that Southern bias, the 2017 shot has an HST in it

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3567802...

[rs1952]

NDA said:

Do you have any that feature Witley or Cranleigh stations? Cranleigh has long since gone of course....

The short answer to both questions is no.

The longer answers are...
I have ridden my push bike down the former railway line on which Cranleigh used to stand from nearly Guildford to nearly Christs Hospital, not that that is much use in this context!

The "Portsmouth Direct" line from Guildford to Pompey was already electrified by the time I got interested in railways, so I didn't use it all that much. I have however posted a couple of photographs of the Longmoor Military Railway that used to run into Liss, not far down the road from Witley:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/1552625...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/1490852...


I do have a shot of a steam hauled special train at Pompey that had just come down the direct line from Guildford, and this will be posted on Flickr shortly as one half of a then and now comparison - the delays are being caused by trying to think up some good captions

oddited for teepees...

Edited by rs1952 on Friday 11th August 13:43

[rs1952]

NDA said:

.

There is a story going that the owner of Witley Park had many of the original rail bridges built to enable him to bring statues to the park. I have no idea if it is true - but I live nearby and have heard it said many times.

Before I responded I posed your question to a group of people who should know about such quirks of history - the Southern Email Group. Its been over 24 hours since I asked and I have heard zilch - de nada - nothing. This suggests to me that this is one of those urban myths that abound throughout the UK and not just on the railway system - somebody sees a couple of things happening (eg a railway gets built and statues arrive at the local Big House by train) then adds 2 and 2 and gets 6. Then over the years the myth turns gradually into a sort of history that ain't quite true...

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

In truth your scenario is unlikely because it wouldn't normally be necessary. On a double track railway (as this is) there is usually plenty of room to move large loads (usually called Out of Gauge loads). With worst case scenarios you would simply ensure that the other line was not occupied by trains at the time you were moving it/them, and use lots and lots of rope and chains..

All that said, if there was such a stipulation in the original land sale then an appropriate clause would have appeared in the land conveyance. If you are that interested you could trawl through the Kew Archives or the National Railway Archives at York museum to find out. Happy hunting

[rs1952]

The latest offering has been uploaded. Brockenhurst 50 years on - chance encounters:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3570337...

For those on here who don't know much about railways and don't know where Brockenhurst is - if you've ever gone down to Lymingtom to get the Isle of Wight ferry it's where that bloody level crossing is

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

That's not correct though is it. The 1922 timetable included the through expresses, which the WR diverted away the line in1962 or whenever, and to which the local trains no longer connected. Not saying your other reasons aren't valid – the line was only ever barely viable. That said, it's sorely needed now.

As you know, we have had this discussion a few times on the Bristol Railway Archive, but just in case anybody on this forum now thinks I was talking a load of rubbish I'll have to expand on the matter I'll do it in bullet points to save typing a novel...

• Through traffic is not "your" traffic - it could equally as easily, indeed often more easily, use other routes. Just because "we've always done things this way" doesn't mean we should keep doing it that way. If it did, they'd still be towing trains out of Euston using a winding engine at the top of Camden bank

• Express trains were, as you say, diverted away from the S&D in 1962. In fact there was only one that ran all year round - the Pines Express - and that only called at Evercreech and Blandford. The Evercreech stop was mainly to attach and detach an assisting engine, although it did make a connection with the Highbridge branch - usually a one coach train and I have been on trains on that line when I was the only passenger. Through traffic to and from Blandford was marginal - if there was any money in it Blandford would still be served by rail. All the other "express" services ran on Summer Saturdays only. and that market too was contracting due to the growth of private motor transport.

• The diverted train served many more areas of high population ie. Oxford, Reading, Winchester and Southampton

• The diversion of the Pines was requested by the LMR. This document says so:

Edited to add that if any old eyes (like mine) have difficulty in deciphering that document, here is what is says. I would also add that the date of this memo, 23rd May 1962, predates the Beeching Report by almost a year:

COMMITTEE FOR THE REVIEW OF UNECONOMIC BRANCH LINES AND STATIONS

“Referring to the notes of the meeting held at Waterloo on 10th May, the item in respect of the Somerset & Dorset line should be amended to read as follows:

The Western Region are taking the initiative in preparing a joint submission to the respective Area Boards concerned, also to the Transport Users Consultative Committee, and the Line Manager, South Western Division, hopes very soon to submit a draft report in respect of the Southern Region portion to the Western Region. This recommends complete withdrawal of the passenger train service between Templecombe and Broadstone Junction and closure of the line between Templecombe (exclusive) and Blandford Forum (exclusive); the portion Blandford Forum (inclusive)/ Broadstone junction to be retained (single track only) and worked as a siding for freight traffic only. Arrangements would have to be made for inter-regional trains on Saturdays during the summer, to be diverted via alternative routes.

As from 10th September next, at the request of the London Midland region in connection with their electrification proposals, the “Pines Express” will be diverted via Basingstoke”

Edited by rs1952 on Monday 14th August 12:26

[rs1952]

The latest 50-year comparison to be uploaded is of Bournemouth Central

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3661188...

[rs1952]

Here's the latest. Weymouth 50 years on - trains to London

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3672920...

[rs1952]

Aha - Nine Elms 1967.

As they say, here's a few I made earlier:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8473536...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8690016...

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

Aha - Nine Elms 1967.

As they say, here's a few I made earlier:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8473536...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8690016...

Has that West Country on the right had a collision? The buffer beam looks 'pushed back'.

My old eyes can't see it (even when I blow up the original photograph) and my old brain doesn't remember the details.

However, 34002 was withdrawn in February 1967 and 34018 went on to the end, so something could well have been amiss with 34002.

[rs1952]

Thread resurrected because I have posted another comparison at Weymouth, including the arrival of the last steam hauled 0830ex-Waterloo on 8th July 1967.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/2629579...

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

Thread resurrected because I have posted another comparison at Weymouth, including the arrival of the last steam hauled 0830ex-Waterloo on 8th July 1967.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/2629579...

That same engine, with the same chalk graffitti on the smokebox, features in a book I have by a chap called Jim Evans. Different head codes though and I think that photo must have been the working before yours, heading the other way.

Photographs very much lke that one have appeared in a a number of railway books and magazines over the years.

There were about 20 of us standing behind the buffer stops pointing cameras at the engine that morning!

[rs1952]

Eyersey1234 said:

Thanks for sharing these, how many more are there?

There are 16 more that I have made up, but most of them I'm not particularly happy with for one reason or another, and it's getting a bit late in the year now to go and take them again (poor light, low sun, short days etc)..

For example, one that I wasn't happy with was of Romsey - 4498 aka 60007 running light engine between Southampton and Salisbury between two legs of a special in June 1967, compared with an ubiquitous cl.159 DMU at the same location in July this year. The 2017 shot was slightly out of focus and, even then, it showed up the considerable shortcomings in both my photography skills and Instamatic cameras in 1967!

I went back down in September when A4 no 60009 was running through on a special at about 1845hrs, and the light levels were too low even then to get a decent shot