Boeing 747 days are numbered
Discussion
Just read with sadness at the start of 2018 there will be no US carriers using the 747 as a passenger aircraft.
Add to that Air France and Cathay have retired theirs and the fact whilst BA have 36 flying currently they have plans to retire half by 2021 with the balance gone by 2024...........what a shame
I remember as a very young lad watching these huge and graceful aircraft coming and going from Heathrow sitting next to the runway (you could in those days!) and also at various other airports around the globe. I’ve flown in quite a few and been lucky enough as a non-pilot to fly in a jump seat for some hours and on one occasion play with the controls at 36,000ft with the autopilot off keeping it straight and level, an experience I’ll never forget.
I suspect like quite a few of us (and for me nearly 50 years on) I still look up and say......wow when I see one taking off or landing. My youngest son who’s 8 loves them but he’ll probably never fly in one.
I fully understand the economics
The A330 and Dreamliner et al are doing the same job with two engines, can now fly some distance away from shore so are able to go direct from say Heathrow to the Caribbean in 8 hours rather than hug the US coast as two engined airliners has to do some years ago. At the end of the day it’s all about shareholders, pounds, shillings and pence.
I wonder how long the A380 has to go on the production line? The NEO doesn’t seem to be on the cards, not even for Emirates which is a shame. I fly in the A380 reasonably frequently and they are wonderful. They’re large, quiet, well equipped and even in the cheap seats comfortable and a really nice place to be for a long flight.
However at the end of the day regardless of my fondness of the A380 the 747 is and will always be ‘The Queen of the Skies’ and rightly so. Without doubt it transformed air travel for the masses and has carried huge numbers of human beings throughout its life. It holds the record for carrying the most passengers on one flight (1088 on an El Al flight albeit it took off with 1086 people on board but two babies were born so it landed with 1088!)
I guess some airlines will fly the 747-8 for some time to come but without doubt shortly we won’t see as many as we do currently
Some fun-facts about the 747-400
A 747-400 has six million parts, half of which are fasteners, 171 miles (274 km) of wiring and 5 miles (8 km) of tubing.
A 747-400 consists of 147,000 pounds (66,150 kg) of high-strength aluminum.
The 747-400 tail height is 63 feet 8 inches (19.4 m), equivalent to a six-story building.
The 747-400 wing weighs 95,000 pounds (43,090 kg), more than 30 times the weight of the first Boeing airplane, the 1916 B&W.
The 747-400 wing measures 5,600 square feet (524.9 m2), an area large enough to hold 45 medium-sized cars.
Four World War I vintage JN4-D "Jenny" airplanes could be lined up on each of the Boeing 747 wings.
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8 m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet.
Seventy-five thousand engineering drawings were used to produce the first 747.
The first 747 completed more than 15,000 hours of wind-tunnel testing.
The original 747 flight test program, which led to the airplane's certification for commercial service in December 1969, used five airplanes, lasted 10 months and required more than 1,500 hours of flying.
The 747 fleet has logged more than 35 billion statute miles (56 billion km) - enough to make 74,000 trips to the moon and back.
The 747 fleet has flown 3.6 billion people - the equivalent of more than half of the world's population.
The 747-400 range is approximately 7,330 statute miles (13,570 km), an increase of nearly 2,600 nautical miles (4,810 km) more than the first 747.
A 747-400 typically takes off at 180 mph (290 km/h), cruises at 565 mph (910 km/h) and lands at 160 mph (260 km/h).
For a typical international flight, one 747 operator uses about 5.5 tons (5,000 kg) of food supplies and more than 50,000 in-flight service items.
Engine thrust has grown from 43,500 pounds (19,730 kg) per engine on the early 747s to as much as 63,300 pounds (28,710 kg) on the current model.
The diameter of the 747 engine cowling is 8 feet 6 inches (2.6 m).
Engine noise from today's 747-400 is half of what it was on the original 747s delivered in 1970.
Fuel
The 747-400 can carry more than 57,000 gallons of fuel (215,745 L), making it possible to fly extremely long routes, such as San Francisco-to-Sydney, Australia.
A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.
The 747-400 carries 3,300 gallons (12,490 L) of fuel in the horizontal (tail) stabilizer, allowing it to fly an additional 400 miles.
At 31,285 cubic feet (876 m3), the 747-400 has the largest passenger interior volume of any commercial airliner, which is equivalent to more than three houses each measuring 1,500 square feet (135 m2).
The 747-400 has a redesigned "flexible" cabin interior that not only improves passenger conveniences and appeal, but allows airlines to rearrange seats and class configuration overnight (in eight hours). They also permit 48-hour conversion times for changes in galley and lavatory locations.
Airline cargo handlers use the 747-400's lower-lobe cargo handling system to load or unload more than 65,000 pounds (30,000 kg) of cargo - the equivalent of 625 pieces of luggage combined with 20 tons of revenue freight - in less than 15 minutes.
The Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk, N.C., could have been performed within the 150-foot (45 m) economy section of a 747-400.
There are 365 lights, gauges and switches in the new-technology 747-400 flight deck, reduced from 971 on earlier 747 models.
Add to that Air France and Cathay have retired theirs and the fact whilst BA have 36 flying currently they have plans to retire half by 2021 with the balance gone by 2024...........what a shame
I remember as a very young lad watching these huge and graceful aircraft coming and going from Heathrow sitting next to the runway (you could in those days!) and also at various other airports around the globe. I’ve flown in quite a few and been lucky enough as a non-pilot to fly in a jump seat for some hours and on one occasion play with the controls at 36,000ft with the autopilot off keeping it straight and level, an experience I’ll never forget.
I suspect like quite a few of us (and for me nearly 50 years on) I still look up and say......wow when I see one taking off or landing. My youngest son who’s 8 loves them but he’ll probably never fly in one.
I fully understand the economics
The A330 and Dreamliner et al are doing the same job with two engines, can now fly some distance away from shore so are able to go direct from say Heathrow to the Caribbean in 8 hours rather than hug the US coast as two engined airliners has to do some years ago. At the end of the day it’s all about shareholders, pounds, shillings and pence.I wonder how long the A380 has to go on the production line? The NEO doesn’t seem to be on the cards, not even for Emirates which is a shame. I fly in the A380 reasonably frequently and they are wonderful. They’re large, quiet, well equipped and even in the cheap seats comfortable and a really nice place to be for a long flight.
However at the end of the day regardless of my fondness of the A380 the 747 is and will always be ‘The Queen of the Skies’ and rightly so. Without doubt it transformed air travel for the masses and has carried huge numbers of human beings throughout its life. It holds the record for carrying the most passengers on one flight (1088 on an El Al flight albeit it took off with 1086 people on board but two babies were born so it landed with 1088!)
I guess some airlines will fly the 747-8 for some time to come but without doubt shortly we won’t see as many as we do currently
Some fun-facts about the 747-400
A 747-400 has six million parts, half of which are fasteners, 171 miles (274 km) of wiring and 5 miles (8 km) of tubing.
A 747-400 consists of 147,000 pounds (66,150 kg) of high-strength aluminum.
The 747-400 tail height is 63 feet 8 inches (19.4 m), equivalent to a six-story building.
The 747-400 wing weighs 95,000 pounds (43,090 kg), more than 30 times the weight of the first Boeing airplane, the 1916 B&W.
The 747-400 wing measures 5,600 square feet (524.9 m2), an area large enough to hold 45 medium-sized cars.
Four World War I vintage JN4-D "Jenny" airplanes could be lined up on each of the Boeing 747 wings.
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8 m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet.
Seventy-five thousand engineering drawings were used to produce the first 747.
The first 747 completed more than 15,000 hours of wind-tunnel testing.
The original 747 flight test program, which led to the airplane's certification for commercial service in December 1969, used five airplanes, lasted 10 months and required more than 1,500 hours of flying.
The 747 fleet has logged more than 35 billion statute miles (56 billion km) - enough to make 74,000 trips to the moon and back.
The 747 fleet has flown 3.6 billion people - the equivalent of more than half of the world's population.
The 747-400 range is approximately 7,330 statute miles (13,570 km), an increase of nearly 2,600 nautical miles (4,810 km) more than the first 747.
A 747-400 typically takes off at 180 mph (290 km/h), cruises at 565 mph (910 km/h) and lands at 160 mph (260 km/h).
For a typical international flight, one 747 operator uses about 5.5 tons (5,000 kg) of food supplies and more than 50,000 in-flight service items.
Engine thrust has grown from 43,500 pounds (19,730 kg) per engine on the early 747s to as much as 63,300 pounds (28,710 kg) on the current model.
The diameter of the 747 engine cowling is 8 feet 6 inches (2.6 m).
Engine noise from today's 747-400 is half of what it was on the original 747s delivered in 1970.
Fuel
The 747-400 can carry more than 57,000 gallons of fuel (215,745 L), making it possible to fly extremely long routes, such as San Francisco-to-Sydney, Australia.
A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.
The 747-400 carries 3,300 gallons (12,490 L) of fuel in the horizontal (tail) stabilizer, allowing it to fly an additional 400 miles.
At 31,285 cubic feet (876 m3), the 747-400 has the largest passenger interior volume of any commercial airliner, which is equivalent to more than three houses each measuring 1,500 square feet (135 m2).
The 747-400 has a redesigned "flexible" cabin interior that not only improves passenger conveniences and appeal, but allows airlines to rearrange seats and class configuration overnight (in eight hours). They also permit 48-hour conversion times for changes in galley and lavatory locations.
Airline cargo handlers use the 747-400's lower-lobe cargo handling system to load or unload more than 65,000 pounds (30,000 kg) of cargo - the equivalent of 625 pieces of luggage combined with 20 tons of revenue freight - in less than 15 minutes.
The Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk, N.C., could have been performed within the 150-foot (45 m) economy section of a 747-400.
There are 365 lights, gauges and switches in the new-technology 747-400 flight deck, reduced from 971 on earlier 747 models.
V8LM said:
motomk said:
Eric, to put my anorak on, that particular one is actually a B747-200. KLM converted some of their 200's with a stretched upper deck which mimics the -300.
Used to confuse me when I would read books on it. "Get stuffed that's a 300???" where the books would call it a B747-200SUD. They did have a few -300's but most were converted 200's. Now in your defense, I did have to look it up, to check the rego.
Bit of cutting and shutting of Jumbo's!
EBU, which still survives (well, it did last time I looked) minus lots of parts.
Thanks. Didn’t know of the SUD.Used to confuse me when I would read books on it. "Get stuffed that's a 300???" where the books would call it a B747-200SUD. They did have a few -300's but most were converted 200's. Now in your defense, I did have to look it up, to check the rego.
Bit of cutting and shutting of Jumbo's!
EBU, which still survives (well, it did last time I looked) minus lots of parts.
Thanks to both posters
texaxile said:
Luckily enough I've been on a few , EVA 747 combi's (not sure if they were 747-400's), Thai airways "Phimara", A South African airways piece of s
t in which the economy seats were so close together my knees were touching the seat in front (and i'm a short arse) - and I've mentioned it before, Royal Flight Oman (Sultan Qaboos' personal Jet) 747SP. My dad also flew on the previous Royal Flight aircraft which I understand was a VC10.
By the way, does anyone know what the lump on top of the aircraft is?
The VC10 you mention is on display at Brooklands near Weybridge.t in which the economy seats were so close together my knees were touching the seat in front (and i'm a short arse) - and I've mentioned it before, Royal Flight Oman (Sultan Qaboos' personal Jet) 747SP. My dad also flew on the previous Royal Flight aircraft which I understand was a VC10.By the way, does anyone know what the lump on top of the aircraft is?
Sadly having visited it earlier this year it’s in pretty poor condition and according to the guys looking after it, it’s only a matter of time before the undercarriage collapses.
The museum offers no financial reward to the caretakers of that aircraft, no help with maintenance, limit what can be done on the airframe and its rotting.
Shakermaker said:
Shotgun Jon said:
I was first off my flight and walked down the stairs and slowed down sufficiently to simply gaze and stare at the huge lump of incredible metal next to me.
I’m off to Dubai Thursday on an A380 in a decent seat and that will be a good flight...........but not a 747!
XB70 said:
HoHoHo said:
I’m off to Dubai Thursday on an A380 in a decent seat and that will be a good flight...........but not a 747!
You are coming at the right time - the temperature is lovely here at the moment.I can't recall seeing too many 747s here but did see some freighters down at Al Maktoum airport next to an AN-124 last year.
Polite M135 driver said:
paulguitar said:
Just about to board:
looks like a cut and shut job, you can see where the fuselage is a different colour at the back than it is at the front.have a good flight.
I was speaking to a close friend who's a BA Captain and discussing the 747's and their age etc. and he is totally confident the aircraft can fly for the next 10-15 years with no issue - they are apparently built like brick s
thouses and the actual airframe is incredibly strong.However, he concluded that he wouldn't trust the wiring further than he could see it smouldering and for that reason he thinks they need to retired shortly.
Speed 3 said:
Wondering if they're fitting JT9D's too for nostalgia reasons per the render 
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture...
That's bloody brilliant https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture...
Looking forward to seeing that at Heathrow in the future
HTP99 said:
What would that cost BA to do?
According to Google about £125,000.It looks brilliant
I remember at an aircraft exhibition two years ago helping a lady who worked for a company who painted aircraft build their stand. After much help I asked if I could quote for their stand at future shows.
I was told they don’t make enough money painting aircraft........
So now I don’t make enough money to help people in trouble so f
k you..........Nobby Diesel said:
Travelled with BA, Pan Am, Thai, KLM and Air New Zealand on the lovely 747, in the dim and distant past.
It always felt a bit special.
Bangkok to Phuket, all of a 40 minute flight. I think it went on to Singapore. We were "travelling" at the time and the upgrade from economy to first, was about 15 quid!
London to Honolulu on NZ in first - what an experience. Roast lamb, carved in front of you.
Pan Am from New York to London - back in the day when the upstairs was a lounge. As a 15 year old kid, I felt like a king and managed to "pull", mid Atlantic!!
I'll miss it.
Great memories, thanks It always felt a bit special.
Bangkok to Phuket, all of a 40 minute flight. I think it went on to Singapore. We were "travelling" at the time and the upgrade from economy to first, was about 15 quid!
London to Honolulu on NZ in first - what an experience. Roast lamb, carved in front of you.
Pan Am from New York to London - back in the day when the upstairs was a lounge. As a 15 year old kid, I felt like a king and managed to "pull", mid Atlantic!!
I'll miss it.
Shakermaker said:
Speed 3 said:
Aah amazing, I saw that from the motorway a few months ago and wondered exactly what was going on there. Now I know! 
Hammerhead said:
That KLM 747 - why did they spray over the KLM/100 logos?! Everyone knows it was a KLM aircraft! It looks vandalised to me : \
Common practice, don’t let the competition or public know you’ve either had an accident or scrapped an aircraft, remove the logo.Does seem a bit daft on a KLM or similar!
I’m here at Dunsfold at the east side of the runway on the main road.
Quite a few others milling around and I’m told the Captain intends to perform two missed approaches followed by a determined landing as he’s quite light and to ensure he stops within the 1800m of available runway.
Emergency services are in the airfield have a play with their lights etc.
Hopefully the police won’t come along and spoil the moment.
Quite a few others milling around and I’m told the Captain intends to perform two missed approaches followed by a determined landing as he’s quite light and to ensure he stops within the 1800m of available runway.
Emergency services are in the airfield have a play with their lights etc.
Hopefully the police won’t come along and spoil the moment.
My short video
https://youtu.be/7YsU1PlT-_I
Quite a sight and a bit emotional seeing one of the last 747’s flying......and still airworthy at that
https://youtu.be/7YsU1PlT-_I
Quite a sight and a bit emotional seeing one of the last 747’s flying......and still airworthy at that
surveyor said:
HoHoHo said:
My short video
https://youtu.be/7YsU1PlT-_I
Quite a sight and a bit emotional seeing one of the last 747’s flying......and still airworthy at that
Only its not. We see 2 a week just at Doncaster.https://youtu.be/7YsU1PlT-_I
Quite a sight and a bit emotional seeing one of the last 747’s flying......and still airworthy at that
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