The Phantom - How Good was it Really?
Discussion
Watched the contentiously entitled Classic British Jets: Phantom on Amazon Prime yesterday.
An interesting programme, albeit a bit dated (made c1999).
I seem to recall (possibly incorrectly) some unflattering comments on PH threads about this aircraft.
The RAF pilots interviewed had nothing but praise for it though. Maybe as a result of the alternatives of the day.
So, was it really the outstanding, multi-role box-ticker?
Really surprised that Luftwaffe were expected to use them well into the 21st C. Even more so were the comments from the RAF chap seconded to them, about the air-to-air tactics.
The TSR-2 got a mention as well.
An interesting programme, albeit a bit dated (made c1999).
I seem to recall (possibly incorrectly) some unflattering comments on PH threads about this aircraft.
The RAF pilots interviewed had nothing but praise for it though. Maybe as a result of the alternatives of the day.
So, was it really the outstanding, multi-role box-ticker?
Really surprised that Luftwaffe were expected to use them well into the 21st C. Even more so were the comments from the RAF chap seconded to them, about the air-to-air tactics.
The TSR-2 got a mention as well.
Eric Mc said:
Indeed it was. Definitely not a "Classic British" aircraft - although the versions built for the RN and the RAF were heavily Anglicised to the point that they were pretty unique.
Apparently, the modifications to accommodate the RR Spey engines resulted in a less efficient aircraft.aeropilot said:
Yes and no.
Given that the original F-4 purchase was for the RN to operate off the Eagle and Ark, these being a lot smaller than the US carriers, it was deemed the extra thrust of the Spey was a sensible choice......plus it meant UK engines, rather than US engines, which at the time, we had never operated a US jet engine a/c in service, so you can see the arguments in the 'for' side.
The Spey engine F-4 was better at low level than the J79 engine which when the UK was part turned over to the RAF when TSR.2 was canned, and they decided not to modify Eagle to operate the beast, the RAF used the F-4 in the A-G role, so again, the Spey being better at low level wasn't an issue. The Spey was significantly less 'smokey' than the J-79, which when blatting around the German border at low level was an advantage.
It was only in the later years when all the RAF F-4 were used in the AD role that the disadvantage of the Spey was shown, this being even more shown up, when the UK bought 15 refurbished ex-USN F-4 with the J79 to re-activate 74 Sqn with.
In the AD role, the F-4J(UK) was clearly the best of the fleet, as the J79 was a much better high level engine, pushing a less draggy airframe.
Given that the original F-4 purchase was for the RN to operate off the Eagle and Ark, these being a lot smaller than the US carriers, it was deemed the extra thrust of the Spey was a sensible choice......plus it meant UK engines, rather than US engines, which at the time, we had never operated a US jet engine a/c in service, so you can see the arguments in the 'for' side.
The Spey engine F-4 was better at low level than the J79 engine which when the UK was part turned over to the RAF when TSR.2 was canned, and they decided not to modify Eagle to operate the beast, the RAF used the F-4 in the A-G role, so again, the Spey being better at low level wasn't an issue. The Spey was significantly less 'smokey' than the J-79, which when blatting around the German border at low level was an advantage.
It was only in the later years when all the RAF F-4 were used in the AD role that the disadvantage of the Spey was shown, this being even more shown up, when the UK bought 15 refurbished ex-USN F-4 with the J79 to re-activate 74 Sqn with.
In the AD role, the F-4J(UK) was clearly the best of the fleet, as the J79 was a much better high level engine, pushing a less draggy airframe.
aeropilot said:
ApOrbital said:
Whoops have you got a link to that story?
Plenty of stuff out there on it, been threads on PPrune and Flypast over the years, bu tthis one should cover what you need in one article.https://defenceoftherealm.wordpress.com/2015/10/27...
Is it time to post some Phantom pics yet?
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