The best 40 to 50ft Yacht
Discussion
NickCQ said:
To be honest I would not recommend going ocean sailing on a £70k probably ex charter Beneteau that has spent its life being run aground on coral reefs.
The volume brands (Jeanneau, Hanse, Benne etc) all operate in a competitive market and the cost pressure is evident in the build quality (or lack thereof).
The best way to do this if your budget is only £70k is to find something solid that someone else has spent a lot of money prepping for an ARC. The model of boat itself is less relevant here than the condition.
Thanks for the heads up, I'm grateful for any suggestions. The volume brands (Jeanneau, Hanse, Benne etc) all operate in a competitive market and the cost pressure is evident in the build quality (or lack thereof).
The best way to do this if your budget is only £70k is to find something solid that someone else has spent a lot of money prepping for an ARC. The model of boat itself is less relevant here than the condition.
SimonTheSailor said:
The Amels are good boats, designed to be sailed around the world. I believe they were made in one piece so mega strong. Think the newer models aren't quite the same since old man Amel passed away and now accountants are building the boats.
I spent 11 months on a Super Maramu and would do so again.
I didn't want to put you off but as has been said above all that Bavaria/Beneatu stuff is made with cost in mind, lightweight flimsy stuff where cupboards don't open depending on which way the boat is heeled. Ok for the med coastal hopping.
I think I might need a bigger lump sum! Wow big difference in price so the quality must be better in the Amel. All around the £200k mark on Yachtworld I spent 11 months on a Super Maramu and would do so again.
I didn't want to put you off but as has been said above all that Bavaria/Beneatu stuff is made with cost in mind, lightweight flimsy stuff where cupboards don't open depending on which way the boat is heeled. Ok for the med coastal hopping.
XJSJohn said:
lots of Q's for that, some already asked.
for ocean crossings or coastal cruising?
where, staying in northern europe? The med? the carribean? south pacific? SE Asia? round the world?
would you be staying in warmer latitudes or be interested in cruising the upper ends of the globe?
just you and your spouse or would you be looking for other crew?
does your budget / lifestyle dream involve spending significant time in marina's or anchored off in remote locations?
what is your sailing experience?
what is your maintenance experience (fibreglass, wood, steel, engines, rigging, electrics etc)
what additional budget do you have for fit-out?
remember - BOAT - bring out another thousand.
for ocean crossings or coastal cruising?for ocean crossings or coastal cruising?
where, staying in northern europe? The med? the carribean? south pacific? SE Asia? round the world?
would you be staying in warmer latitudes or be interested in cruising the upper ends of the globe?
just you and your spouse or would you be looking for other crew?
does your budget / lifestyle dream involve spending significant time in marina's or anchored off in remote locations?
what is your sailing experience?
what is your maintenance experience (fibreglass, wood, steel, engines, rigging, electrics etc)
what additional budget do you have for fit-out?
remember - BOAT - bring out another thousand.
Bit of both depending on the health come retirement. It's pretty good just now but you never know...
where, staying in northern europe? The med? the carribean? south pacific? SE Asia? round the world?
Canaries, Cabo Verde, Carribean...
would you be staying in warmer latitudes or be interested in cruising the upper ends of the globe?
Would likely stick to warmer climes
just you and your spouse or would you be looking for other crew?
Me and the missus....
does your budget / lifestyle dream involve spending significant time in marina's or anchored off in remote locations?
Anchored rather than marinas...
what is your sailing experience?
20 years skipper of various size fishing boats up to 26m, sailing not so much....
what is your maintenance experience (fibreglass, wood, steel, engines, rigging, electrics etc)
Engines, electrics general maintenance all okay. Have Class 2 Fishing engineering and lots of own maintenance....
what additional budget do you have for fit-out?
£10 - 20k
pequod said:
The OP has now provided some more info but, crucially, hasn't told us what his wife has in terms of experience? All well and good being an experienced fishing boat skipper with 20 years+ inshore/offshore/deep sea fishing boat experience, but, IMHO, we need to know what the 'crew', aka the missus, has in the way of sailing offshore experience?
All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?
No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?
We live in Orkney, the wife used to go to the creels with her brother to earn pocket money and skippered the boat around some serious tidal/weather conditions without hesitation. Shes up for it as long as I watch the forecasts and sail when conditions are right! When/if we do it, there will be no "need to get there" constraints so should make life pleasurable.All being well and she is 'all aboard' with this but without being personal, what does the VIP say?
No point in commenting further about which type of boat until this is established?
I will be giving her the "graveyard" watch though, not sure of her thoughts on that …..
XJSJohn said:
from what you have suggested there, perhaps skip the canaries, and buy something already in the Caribbean, lots of good options there, many are already set up having got themselves there so saves you some effort. This will get some people spitting, but if you will be actively looking for the good weather window's and SWMBO doesnt want to spend extended periods of time offshore a catamaran could be an option. although getting tight on the budget for a nice one
on the "anchored off" rather than marinas part, that then means you need plenty of solar power, perhaps a genset and definitely fuel tanks for teh engine. a watermaker may be something to consider also.
if sticking to the more tropical latitudes, you want a boat with good through ventilation, and teh ability to rig lots of sun awnings - through drafts and keeping sun off the deck are your comfort objectives here.
experience wise, sounds like you probably have more than me when it comes to applied common sense, the WAFI bit is just pulling string in the right order, seamanship is teh same whatever you are on.
Also sounds like you are more than handy enough for teh running maintenance to save a few bob, can also make a bit of pocket money as you travel as other cruisers are often looking for people with skills
You will notice i am not suggesting any specific boats, from my experience of doing these exercises at the club bar over the years, you need to start with a wish list of what you want to do, then start cross referring it against what is feasible for all involved, and for teh budget, as you wash through this process you start to build a bit of a requirements list, and that will show you a set of boats that meet needs and budget, then you come and ask us idiots, which of these 3 boats etc etc
this idiot will be here to bounce ideas about as will all the others i am sure
Thanks for this John, most helpful and provides food for thought. It's a bit like our euro road trips, the drive through the UK to get to decent locations is long and tedious. Starting in the Caribbean sounds like an excellent idea - take in a holiday "boat viewing" would be the next step! And I wouldn't refer to you all as idiots, most helpful advice from all and has got the thought process going a bit faster. on the "anchored off" rather than marinas part, that then means you need plenty of solar power, perhaps a genset and definitely fuel tanks for teh engine. a watermaker may be something to consider also.
if sticking to the more tropical latitudes, you want a boat with good through ventilation, and teh ability to rig lots of sun awnings - through drafts and keeping sun off the deck are your comfort objectives here.
experience wise, sounds like you probably have more than me when it comes to applied common sense, the WAFI bit is just pulling string in the right order, seamanship is teh same whatever you are on.
Also sounds like you are more than handy enough for teh running maintenance to save a few bob, can also make a bit of pocket money as you travel as other cruisers are often looking for people with skills
You will notice i am not suggesting any specific boats, from my experience of doing these exercises at the club bar over the years, you need to start with a wish list of what you want to do, then start cross referring it against what is feasible for all involved, and for teh budget, as you wash through this process you start to build a bit of a requirements list, and that will show you a set of boats that meet needs and budget, then you come and ask us idiots, which of these 3 boats etc etc
this idiot will be here to bounce ideas about as will all the others i am sure
Fastchas said:
I know the MD of this company. Maybe these guys have something for you...
https://www.maiden-marine.co.uk/boats-for-sale/Use...
Thanks for this, I'm a bit away yet from retiring but good to see what's available and the different specs for the money...https://www.maiden-marine.co.uk/boats-for-sale/Use...
pequod said:
I like the look of that, good basic engine too based on Ford unit. I used to have a Lehman in my first creel boat - 37 ft clinker built, we were pioneers at the time heading all the way out West from Orkney to Sule Skerry and North Rona with a boat load of 260 creels to catch lobsters. Didn't know much about stability then, a good job we had plenty beam! A coolbox with Mince, stew and a hen and a bag of tatties and some UHT milk did us 10 days..... oh and Fray Bentos pies Yacht Broker said:
Take a look at my website (in my profile). Got a few options on there. Been selling blue water sailing yachts for over 20yrs so know a bit about it. Can also recommend a couple of other UK-based brokers who can give you good advice (I am UK-based but do most of my business overseas).
If you go for anything that was built outside of Europe, make sure you ask the right questions about CE compliancy or exemption otherwise you could be buying yourself unwittingly into a whole world of legal pain. Many brokers don't really know what constitutes exemption, so don't get rolled over.
Always happy to answer questions, irrespective of whether it involves me doing business. Just send me a mail via my website.
Best
Thanks for that, will have a look If you go for anything that was built outside of Europe, make sure you ask the right questions about CE compliancy or exemption otherwise you could be buying yourself unwittingly into a whole world of legal pain. Many brokers don't really know what constitutes exemption, so don't get rolled over.
Always happy to answer questions, irrespective of whether it involves me doing business. Just send me a mail via my website.
Best
Hard-Drive said:
I'm a Bavaria owner (at 32' too small for what you want) and although I think they are great boats for weekend Solent cruising with cross channel hops, and will clearly take quite a lot of punishment, I'd probably be going for something narrower with more sea-kindly ends for proper blue water world cruising. A Bav is incredible value...because it is built down to a price at the end of the day.
I really think I'd be looking at an encapsulated keel, skeg rudder, and quite possibly a ketch rig if I was really serious, with lots of back-up and redundancy by design. As an example, my fresh water pump gave up the ghost at anchor in Studland Bay a few weeks ago. As there is no hand pump, I had a tank full of water and no way to easily get it out Mildly annoying having to go into Poole to pick up a new pump, but would have been a different story mid-ocean!
Thanks for the reply. I'll be well equipped in terms of spares when I do it, we used to do 10 day trips at the fishing - sometimes out West of the Hebrides or over towards the Norewegian sector in the Northern North Sea. We couldn't afford to run in for spares/stores/fuel/water/ice/spare nets etc. etc. so always carried plenty. I will probably be "over the top" in that respect but I think you need to be. If it's only the two of us, we will have plenty of room in the spare cabins. I really think I'd be looking at an encapsulated keel, skeg rudder, and quite possibly a ketch rig if I was really serious, with lots of back-up and redundancy by design. As an example, my fresh water pump gave up the ghost at anchor in Studland Bay a few weeks ago. As there is no hand pump, I had a tank full of water and no way to easily get it out Mildly annoying having to go into Poole to pick up a new pump, but would have been a different story mid-ocean!
Whatever I go for, I'll allow a few hundred pounds for a good survey to identify what may be on the way out - especially the dear bits!
sassthathoopie said:
As I am sure you are discovering sailing, and particularly ocean voyaging, is a hugely complex subject; I've been sailing 30 years, 16 as a professional and I still find that the more I learn the more I realise I don't know!
I carried out an intensive search for a round the world capable vessel for my wife and I with a similar budget. I would echo the thoughts of others up the tread; all boats are a compromise in lots of ways. The trick is to work out exactly how and where you will use the boat so that the compromises you end up buying aren't painful ones.
There is one book that you absolutely should buy, read, and re-read:
The Voyager's Handbook - Beth Leonard
The writers have completed a trade wind circumnavigation in a traditional ketch, and a high latitudes circumnavigation in a 47ft boat they custom built themselves based on what they learned on the first lap. There is also plenty about costs, budgets etc that many other books won't cover.
I would also recommend Jimmy Cornell's 'World Cruising Destinations' and 'World Voyage Planner' - the first book tells you what to expect in any country you can sail to, and the second one tells you how (and importantly when) you should sail there.
You might be interested to read some of the Quora answers I have written
Atlantic Crossing on a budget
Swing Keel Yachts
Is this cheap boat a good bet?
There are an eclectic range of boats that have inspired me for extensive cruising, probably non of them will be perfect for you, but learning a little about all of them would help you in your search:
Alubat Ovni 435
Boreal 44
Allures 45
Garcia Passoa 43
Tayana 52
Shuttleworth Tek 35 Catamaran
Dragonfly 1000
RM 1050, 1060
Freedom 40 Cat Ketch
Mason 44
As you might guess from the list I favour boats with a shallow draft option - it gives you better anchoring options, cheaper berthing options, and you don't have to worry about the keel falling off!
At your price point you will get an awful lot more monohull for your money than you will buying a catamaran. Cats under 35ft have too little under bridge deck clearance. Better to commit to having the living accommodation touching the water (a trimaran!)
Best of luck with the reading and boat searching - it's great fun!
Thanks so much for your reply, I will have a look at all the above. I carried out an intensive search for a round the world capable vessel for my wife and I with a similar budget. I would echo the thoughts of others up the tread; all boats are a compromise in lots of ways. The trick is to work out exactly how and where you will use the boat so that the compromises you end up buying aren't painful ones.
There is one book that you absolutely should buy, read, and re-read:
The Voyager's Handbook - Beth Leonard
The writers have completed a trade wind circumnavigation in a traditional ketch, and a high latitudes circumnavigation in a 47ft boat they custom built themselves based on what they learned on the first lap. There is also plenty about costs, budgets etc that many other books won't cover.
I would also recommend Jimmy Cornell's 'World Cruising Destinations' and 'World Voyage Planner' - the first book tells you what to expect in any country you can sail to, and the second one tells you how (and importantly when) you should sail there.
You might be interested to read some of the Quora answers I have written
Atlantic Crossing on a budget
Swing Keel Yachts
Is this cheap boat a good bet?
There are an eclectic range of boats that have inspired me for extensive cruising, probably non of them will be perfect for you, but learning a little about all of them would help you in your search:
Alubat Ovni 435
Boreal 44
Allures 45
Garcia Passoa 43
Tayana 52
Shuttleworth Tek 35 Catamaran
Dragonfly 1000
RM 1050, 1060
Freedom 40 Cat Ketch
Mason 44
As you might guess from the list I favour boats with a shallow draft option - it gives you better anchoring options, cheaper berthing options, and you don't have to worry about the keel falling off!
At your price point you will get an awful lot more monohull for your money than you will buying a catamaran. Cats under 35ft have too little under bridge deck clearance. Better to commit to having the living accommodation touching the water (a trimaran!)
Best of luck with the reading and boat searching - it's great fun!
I'm currently working my way through Youtubers "Sailing La Vagabonde", gives a lot of insight in to sailing when you have no time constraints. Oh to be young again and have the money to do it - those two things don't normally match!
DB4DM said:
Ocean Passages for the World, from UK Hydrographic Office, is still relevant for RTW planning at the big hand small chart stage. It will also help visualise how oceanic some of the routes are at differing times of year
Well familiar with that publication - and it is worth having. I was lecturer in Maritime Studies for 10 years after I left the fishing industry and that was part of our "Unlimited" certificate teaching in passage planning. All the Sailing directions are worth their weight in gold, I know there are yachting equivalents which are invaluable when going to different locations.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff