Boats...money pits???

[NITO]

Hello all,

The Mrs would like a boat for cruising on the water/fishing (in the sea)!

She says she likes Dory's and the like but honestly, they're tiny and I'm sure they'll pitch and roll and once the novelty has worn off I can't see it being a regular thing. Whereas something a lot more comfortable like a sport cruiser could tempt me in. I really don't want to be doing with launching a boat for each use and would far prefer to have one moored which immediately adds a cost of circa 3k pa.

I've not had a boat before, I've been around them a fair bit and I'm fairly competent mechanically. I'm a bit concerned of taking the plunge because they seem to forever need money spent on them. The purchase price isn't the problem, but I can see maintenance/running costs could be like a third of the purchase price per annum, so by three years you could have paid for it just in maintenance/on costs!

Am I totally overestimating the costs? Boat in mind is something like a Sunseeker San Remo 33ft with twin inboard 200hp Volvo Penta diesels. I know I'm ticking all the trouble boxes as it seems most experienced boat owners prefer outboards. Maybe I should start much smaller? Upto 30k ish budget. There are a few about and they all seem to have had vast sums spent on them over the years renewing, many look like new condition wise with just the classic styling betraying their age.

Then there are fuel costs, to run a 33ft with twin 200hp diesel engines, £50/hr (ie 50 litres per hour total for both engines, is that realistic? Tank size is 500+litres which is somewhat scary to refuel.

Obviously there are a lot of boats in between, like a Smartliner 19 which is like a larger Dory, outboard engine, trailerable for about 11k.

Any advice welcome!

Thanks,
Nito

Edited by NITO on Thursday 2nd July 10:50

[NITO]

Gents,

Thank you all so much, that’s exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

@cashmax, thank you for taking the time to compose such a lengthy reply, it’s really appreciated and I’m taking on board (excuse the pun ) everyone’s comments

I’m in the South East and probably about 10-20 miles from a few coastlines. Dover is probably nearest for me and has the advantage that it’s not a problem tide wise. Ramsgate has tide issues, then there are a few river moorings out at Sandwich which lead out to the sea and various slipways including Herne Bay and all the aforementioned.

Thanks for the recommendations on boats, I’ll put up some links to the two types I was thinking of, nice as a Sunseeker is, I don’t think I’m in the right league to run one of those comfortably, as has been said, it’s clearly a labour of love and my passion is motorbikes.

I’m not overly concerned with engine maintenance and anti fouling is ok too, but anything to do with fibreglass/resins/leaks
etc I don’t have much experience with and exorbitant fuel costs would be too limiting, if a twin 200hp runs at 100L an hour that would sadly ruin me lol!! (I think anyway, how much is red diesel?? and do you just refuel at the Marina?)

I have plenty of space at home for a trailer boat and suitable vehicles for the slipway, but it’s not a route I’m keen to go down. If freshwater is much kinder, it’s possible to go river moored, but to access the sea would be tidal I believe.

I hear what you say about weather, between work and british weather, I’d hate to think how much actual use we could get, perhaps a trailer boat might be best, at least to begin with.

Thanks again,
Nito

[NITO]

I’m outskirts of Canterbury, Hythe and Folkestone are also nearby. Folkestone harbour is tidal I believe, no idea on Hythe.

I’ve been out on a rib, fantastic boats but the one I was on smashed around on landing over waves which is something I don’t want having had a ruptured disc in the back, can’t be doing much with any sudden jarring like that. I guess they come in different hull types?

So the boats I had in mind at the beginning of the thread was something like this; (this particular one is out of budget but possibly negotiable...) have seen similar from £25k, this one does seem to have a good provenance and works seems to have all been done properly...

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Cruiser/sunsee...



And at the other end of the spectrum, a 19” cuddy, something like this, the actual one I was considering was 11k on facebook but can’t really link it here so this is similar, just newer...

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Cuddy-Boat-for...




I have no idea about hull shapes so that is interesting regarding displacement and planing. Does beam also have a bearing on stability. The sunseeker ad says it has a deep vee Don Shead hull whatever that means!!

Thanks
Nito

Edited by NITO on Friday 3rd July 11:25

Edited by NITO on Friday 3rd July 11:26

[NITO]

Yertis said:

That's the biggest hurdle crossed.

Good point lol! Well she is a petrolhead, and she grew up around boats and the sea, she loves being out on the water as do I and the kids do too.

I'm sure she'd get involved in the maintenance too, with regards spring cleaning and cushion scattering, when it comes to the messy bits, I'd probably be on my own but that's fine too

[NITO]

paintman said:

With a displacement hull your top speed is directly related to the length of the boat at the waterline.
A 20' displacement hull will do about 6 knots max regardless of the size of the engine.
https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-...

Interesting, hence most motor boats being Planing hull then...the Sunseeker being a deep V for a smoother ride but I imagine requires more thrust than a shallow vee to propel it.

Thanks

[NITO]

GordonL said:

You might find this video on running costs useful OP.
https://youtu.be/YQ8kxp_I7o0

Thanks Gordon, that'll be some home viewing tonight

[NITO]

dhutch said:

The first thing which strikes me is that at 17" 90-130hp Dory is so difference to a 33ft Sunseeker with twin inboard 200hp Volvos!

If you can dump 30k on a boat, you are obviously not short of a few pennies, unless you are planning to take out a loan or marine mortgage for that but obviously nobody has bottomless pockets.


Daniel

I appreciate they are at somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. One is what I would really like and I'm trying to gauge if it may be doable, the other fits the bill without taking on too much liability or risk, which as a first boat owner is the rational choice by all accounts, but I can't see it would get the same amount of use and feel the novelty would wear off quickly. Most people I know who have had trailer boats either sold them or moved to a moored boat or shared boat.

With regard to costs, there are always competing priorities (largely school fees) and there are no guarantees, the old adage, "if you can't afford to run the car you can't afford the car" applies. With a car or a motorbike, if you fall on hardish times or have a couple of bad months you can simply 'stop', you can sorn it, take it off the road and wait it out, you could do the same with a trailer boat and all are relatively easy to move on if push comes to shove. With a large boat, you have large outgoings that will continue regardless and indiscriminately and selling a big boat isn't the easiest thing either! It's trying to get a realistic steer on this and know what I'm getting into as best as possible before taking the plunge.

I have had communication with the owner of the Sunseeker, he informs that fuel consumption is 60-70L per hour at 22 knots cruising speed with maintenance at £500/year although he does a fair bit himself. If that were the case and it's a good boat, I may be able to live with that cost. But if it spits out it's dummy and lands me with a £12k bill while moored up at 3k per year it all starts to look a bit bleak and the dream rapidly becomes a nightmare! I guess this is where buying a good one (like anything) comes into it, but there are never any guarantees on that either. Now I have a better idea on fuel costs (red diesel 60p ish/litre) would be £42/hr, not far from the £50/hr I was guesstimating (the boat consumes more but red diesel costs less ). In all honesty, the Sunseeker thing looks far more appealing and that looks like a lovely example if out of budget but it is negotiable.

[NITO]

pequod said:

I don't know where you get the cost of red diesel from @ 60p/litre? You are required to declare your usage at the fuel berth and for a twin 200hp sport cruiser you should be declaring 80/20 split (80% propulsion 20% domestic) and unless you're living aboard with the diesel heating on a lot and charging the batteries without leaving your mooring then you will be using at least 80% of the fuel for propulsion. There are two prices for marine red diesel and unless you are commercial (fishing/charter boat for example) you will be paying £1.30 ish per litre for 80% and 70p ish for the 20%. FWIW my syndicate liked to use the Fairline for lunch trips to the IOW and cruising at 22 knts didn't come into it as time and first beer waits for no man so the horses weren't spared and although we never were at full chat, 32 knts was the 'optimal' speed!!
I can tell you from experience that running twin VP 200's is not something to be taken lightly even if you are handy with the spanners plus, as I suspect, that Sunseeker will have outdrives which opens up another potential world of pain for older boats' machinery.
As you started the thread considering a first boat to cruise around and go fishing on, why not consider a Merry Fisher such as this one?
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Motorboats/jea...

Thanks, lots of info there. I just did a google for red diesel price and that is what came up. I didn't know about separate rates for propulsion, I just thought red diesel was red diesel! So do tractors also pay a higher rate for propulsion?

I wondered why people would even consider petrol engines if diesel was so cheap, now I know why!!

Yes it has outdrives. Diesel at the normal rate would be a bit of a blow. It's hard to justify travelling at £90-£130/hr!! Although we'd be happy to motor out a bit, drop anchor and fishing lines and just chill on the water for a bit.

The Merry Fishers are lovely, I was looking at one the other day, I didn't know it was a merry fisher then but it looked virtually the same as this but with an outboard motor. It would make a good alternative to add to the mix, thanks.

[NITO]

AndrewCrown said:

Some very good advice on here....

My tuppence.....I’d advise some RYA approved training way before you buy a boat...

Indeed there is and I sincerely thank everyone who has posted on this thread for chiming in with their views. I have done an enormous amount of reading and research since being pointed in the right directions!

We have decided to get our power boat licenses first and the VHF course and go from there.

My father in law is very much fishing orientated, he has an 11m Cheetah Marine Cat with twin Honda 250vtec outboards (and had a Lochin before with inboards and trailer boats before that many many years ago). It's a fantastic boat and incredibly stable but he's been looking to sell it and it's obviously way over our budget and we rarely get out on it. Perhaps if we get our licenses he'll use it more as the whole thing has become a bit of a struggle for him. We have helped with the anti fouling and cleaning over the years and I've helped with bleeding power steering and some of the electronics and general maintenance as and when. The engine's are left out of the water and he always hoses them off so it's not particularly high maintenance in that regard.

[NITO]

TarquinMX5 said:

Don Shead is / was a boat designer. Deep Vee hull grips well in turns.

With the greatest of respect there's a huge difference in the boats you've mentioned, along the lines of 'I'm thinking about a Caterham or a big automatic Lexus saloon, what are the pros/cons?

I would suggest more research on displacement, semi-displacement and planing hulls.

Decide what you actually need, then what you'd like. Overnight accommodation, if so, how many berths. Onboard toilet - many women insist. Cooking. Standing headroom. Open or closed cockpit. Petrol or diesel. Trailable or not, if so, weight capacity of vehicle, storage etc etc. Marina, swinging mooring, dry stack.

I know owners who get most pleasure from pottering in the marina, having a cup of tea and going home. Others cross the channel.

What is the likely cruising area, depth etc.. outboards, on balance, easier to maintain, fewer holes in the hull. However, can be stolen more easily.

If you don't have previous and significant experience, I would strongly suggest RYA course and VHF course; the sea isn't very forgiving. Generally, and its my experience only, those with smaller boats seem to use them more and have more fun. Some of the big ones become floating caravans and aren't much 'fun', but then they offer more room and facilities. People might say 'don't worry about the fuel, it's negligible'. In the scheme of things, maybe, but even small 150 litre fuel tanks can make some people wince, let alone 1500 litre ones, particularly if petrol.

Have you tried hiring a few different types to see whether they meet your expectations? Not necessarily the cheapest option but nor is buying the wrong boat.

Thank you, yes I read up on all that, he raced boats too, I've since done a lot of reading. I'm quite clear on what boat type I'd like, I've always loved Sunseekers, my Grandfather had a small one many years ago and I used to always go down and help him as a kid before he was taken from us far too soon.

Motorbikes aren't very family inclusive, however with the right boat we could probably have a lot of family fun together. The real issue is a question of affordability. I've been doing lots of research on VP out drives, the maintenance of those having read some guides and watched tutorials doesn't phase me nor anti foul or indeed engine servicing. Winterising sounds like a bit of a pain but nothing too onerous there. The fuel costs unfortunately would probably be prohibitive when combined with Marina fees. For this reason I think we'll probably wait 4 years once the kids are finished with school before taking the plunge so to speak on that type of vessel. In the meantime, I might consider a 21" trailer boat circa the £10-12k mark but again, we'll sort all our licenses out first.

[NITO]

A thread resurrection!!

Well I owe it to everyone who commented and kindly gave us excellent advice on this thread to return with where we ended up.

We decided what with all the lockdowns and unlikelihood of holidays abroad for a couple of years etc that we should just take the plunge. We sold our flash car which was only doing about 3k miles per year and put that into a boat budget.

We subsequently went to view the Sunseeker in question and fell in love with it. It was pretty much everything we were looking for in a boat. However it had osmosis, so after reading a ton on osmosis, we were going to take it on in the realisation that it would be a project and we had negotiated a huge amount off the price. However it came to our knowledge that the bulkhead had also gone soft in a triangulated section in the middle lower area. This was a step too far so we had to say goodbye to that one.

We then viewed many more Sunseekers, as time went on we started looking at Martinique 36’s and lastly a Martinique 39 on lovely Yamaha 420 engines. We did a deal on the 39 but the seller pulled out just before the survey. At this point it was becoming a little frustrating, many months had gone by and it was a question of how hard can it be to buy a boat? The market was against us, being a sellers market with anything being snapped up straight away, no bargains to be had.

Eventually an advert came up for a Sunseeker Portofino 400. We spoke to the agent straight away and were the first to view. Long story short, it was a scary prospect being 40ft long running twin 420hp Caterpillar 3126 engines on shafts (V drives). It was in excellent condition and was quite a budget stretch. We have now owned it for about 7 months and it is kept in a marina.

It has been a vertical learning curve, it hasn’t all been plain sailing, we’ve had a leaking shaft seal, snapped alternator bracket and an intermittent limited max revs on one engine which I believe to be fuel related and currently trying to sort (have dosed tank/changed filters and purchased a diesel dipper - yet to fit)! . We’ve done a host of improvement work to it (new raw water hoses, wet exhaust pipes, intake pipes are waiting to be fitted, mattresses, window seals, porthole fly nets and much more), a fair bit of preventative maintenance finding all sorts of other issues in the process but it’s all a part of it. We’ve done all the work ourselves and we’ll be hauling out for anti foul in about 3 months time. I’ve literally spent most weekends down there and we probably got about 14 days glorious days out on the sea with it last year/season and about 30 hours running time with more time spent drifting or at anchor in a nearby secluded bay and plenty in the Marina. It would have been more but for some of the issues preventing us.

It was more work that I was anticipating from a maintenance point of view but being a bit OCD, as one of my boating neighbours says, “the trouble with looking for problems is that you invariably find them” but then again, a stitch in time saves nine and all that. We got lucky with the alternator as it was being kept in place by one bolt when I spotted it, that could have been messy. We also sorted the shaft leak after a full day in the bilge (fitment issue).

I had many fears, biggest was whether we could handle such a boat and it has been absolutely fine, twin engines and a bow thruster make light work of mooring, I barely have to use the thruster. I’m hoping that the first year is going to be the worst maintenance wise, we’ve overdone it really to bring the boat to a certain level, I’ve replaced all the anodes, discovered a blocked water feed to one of the prop seals and both the transmission coolers were crudded up, need a couple new end caps to the heat exchanger as there was no continuity to the anodes and some other minor stuff. Shortly I’ll be fitting all new belts, impellers, annual oil and gearbox change, we’ve replaced already or will be just about every hose, fuel filters have been done and placing of the dipper and plumbing is a challenge in itself but I’m getting familiar with crawling around the engine room now!! It has been tough work with plenty to do and all the on board systems to learn and I hope after this next bit of work that we’ll be able to enjoy it for a bit while we recharge (unlikely!)!

Anyway, enough of the boring waffle…here are a few pics…









Thanks again to everyone, we have had a lot of fun with it and hope to have much more in the coming months/years!!

[NITO]

dudleybloke said:

Very nice!

Thank you Sir!

AndrewCrown said:

NITO

Great thread resurrection... Congratulations.

There can't be many PH'ers who have a conveyance with 2x 7.2 Litre straight sixes...

If you can do this, then why the hell not..

Have you considered doing a Reader's cars type thread on this? Would be great to see the actuals vs the money pit nay sayers.

Ha, it would probably prove them right Thank you very much, I think some of the best advice was if you enjoy it don't think too much about the costs (provided you can afford them of course!)

I am actually keeping a full spreadsheet and usually keep a blog on all my vehicles just so I can remember what I have and haven't done, I have an initial blog for the boat and will be working on updating this with further posts including detailing some of the maintenance work. If you're interested, you can find it here;

https://nitosport.com/blog/2021/05/16/life-on-the-...
It's protected for the moment so it'll ask you for the password which is; WSII

peterperkins said:

Cool. Being PH how fast does it go?

We've had it to 32knots with a full tank of fuel and water and about a crew of 5 iirc at max revs of 2800rpm. Book speed back in the day was 35 knots. The Caterpillars are 7.2L each with 420hp a piece, so we're talking a total of 12 pistons, 14.4L and 840 total hp. Each engine takes about 25L of oil and each gearbox a further 8L each. Fuel tank size is 1000L.

Louis Balfour said:

Congratulations on a lovely looking boat.

You've answered the question you posed in the thread title, though, haven't you.

Yes, I think it is on this thread that I learnt that apparently a boat is a hole in the water into which you pour your money. In all seriousness, some of the things that freaked me out at the beginning have not been as bad as I thought, such as fuel consumption which was a biggie for me. I would say that I would get back everything I've spent on it maintenance wise and upgrading, except my time! If I was having to pay someone to do everything owning such a boat would just not be sustainable. This takes a big sting out of ownership but it is also hard work, rewarding some times and draining others. I have quite a few motorbikes and since owning a boat they have been totally neglected and it's a struggle to balance my time at the moment but I've put into my head that this first year will hopefully be the hardest as we get the boat where we want it and we're still learning. I just hope that the preventative maintenance will serve to protect us as best as possible from any catastrophe's later down the line, pay off little Bill to stave off big Bill as they say!

Earthdweller said:

Is it on a pcp?

No, paid with BST. (Blood, sweat and tears )

dhutch said:

Epic thread update, good work and thanks for posting back!

A 'readers boat' thread on the work done would be amazing, but I also understand they can become another burden over an above the actual work.

Thank you. As above, I have started a blog and to tend to use them, but it's hard to find the time to tap those blog entries in! I must get up to date with them before I forget them. I can update here when the next entry is done if there is interest. I do them for my own benefit, keeping an online diary for each vehicle. Ever since photobucket stuffed all the forums up I decided to host all my info on my own site so I wouldn't be at anyone else's mercy, particularly after putting lots of work into so many forum posts that got ruined over the years!!

Edited by NITO on Tuesday 11th January 14:27

Edited by NITO on Monday 17th July 11:09

[NITO]

dhutch said:

Sounds good. And yes, remember the photobucket watershed greatly.

I run a forum, and like many others, now host all photos ourself in-house so speak, well it's actually all stored on AWS but we have off-site 3rd party backups etc. Too much good information to risk loosing it.

Best way to go. Sadly it killed off so many forums which have now largely gone FB based but it's really not the same.

AlexIT said:

Nice one, really enjoyed reading the thread and the final update!

I must say I remember the years we owned a boat as some of the best in my life. Ownership comes with some bads, but a lot of goods: time spent in the bilge trying to sort out that non-working pump, checking here and there "for peace of mind" and finally finishing the day with a good pint with the neighbours.

Oh yes, sometimes it happens to sail too....

Enjoy it

Thank you very much, it's been great to have it in a Marina, just passing time there can be incredibly peaceful, it's basically a bolthole by the Sea!

Louis Balfour said:

We've just sold our boat, as you may know. We enjoyed it, but the ongoing (and accelerating) cost of ownership was going to play on my mind. Essentially because I am tight.

I didn't know, did you have it long, what was it? Did you do the work yourself or have it done? I know if I was having to pay for the work I simply wouldn't be able to justify it, well I don't think frankly I could afford it. We budgeted for the marina fees and that's a fixed cost, and we had accurately budgeted regular maintenance and anti foul, it's the unknowns where the stress factor lies. The previous owner had to have a new port engine fitted a few months into his ownership. He took the opportunity to fit 2 new turbos and alternators, had all the coolers cleaned etc, then proceeded to put 500 hours on it in 5 years including taking it to the bay of Biscay. He had his value out of it, he did most of the work himself apart from the engine out stuff.

ecs0set said:

NITO said:

Upto 30k ish budget

NITO said:

was quite a budget stretch

NITO said:

Are you the builder who did the budget for our kitchen rebuild?

Yes, yes, yes...Expensive kitchen...you could have bought a boat for that

Ahem, yes that post didn't age well. When we started looking, we were kind of dipping a toe in the water, there's an awful lot to consider and we approached it cautiously. The available budget grew considerably after selling my car (which was a mistake to buy and I have to say I don't miss it one single bit, at all) and the intervening time between when we started looking and when we bought which allowed us to save some more.

As we viewed boats and more and more time passed by we got a better understanding of what ticked our boxes, there is one school of thought that you start small and work your way up, you could say we jumped in at the deep end, although, shaft drive will be less maintenance on the whole and we won't need to be changing boat anytime soon. The fuel consumption has been a revelation. She'll cruise at 24knots at 79.5L/Hr which includes the odd higher excursion but how we use it, which is trundling out to our favourite anchor point at around 13 knots, we consume about 33L/hr total! I dare say we ended up with the right boat for us in the end, it has been absolutely perfect for our needs.

It's clear that you can never financially justify a boat, I guess it comes down to, is the juice worth the squeeze? When it no longer is then I guess it's time to get out!

[NITO]

Louis Balfour said:

We've just sold our boat, as you may know. We enjoyed it, but the ongoing (and accelerating) cost of ownership was going to play on my mind. Essentially because I am tight.

Louis Balfour said:

It was a new Merry Fisher 695 and no, I did not work on it myself. But even new boats need stuff doing and if it had been sitting in a marina just going green over winter I would not have been happy.

You mention the accelerating costs of ownership, I'm curious as to what you felt these were? My FIL has an outboard engined boat, much like the MF and it would appear to be about as maintenance/liability free as a boat can get. Apart from anti foul each year and servicing the outboard, I'm just wondering what other aspects concerned you with regards to cost of ownership that made you feel that way?

Jaguar steve said:

Boats have to be used a lot to make the expense of buying and keeping one worthwhile, and that doesn't work unless you buy the right boat for you and keep it where you want to sail it.

Otherwise, yes they're money pits.

I think this was very important to us, it had to be a boat that pushed all our buttons, owning a boat can be hard work and if you're going to put that work in the heart has to be into it. Going for a Marina berth over anything else was also perfect for us. | can't imagine launching or being river based would have worked for us.

minipower said:

Great update OP and looks to be a lovely boat. I didn’t realise they were on shafts.

You’ve done really well in the current climate as well. I sold my boat over 6 months ago and still haven’t found a replacement. I’ve upped budget and length but can’t find anything to look at. I’ve continued paying extortionate mooring fees for a 10ft tender until I find something!

Much respect for doing the work yourself. My technical ability extended to polishing the hull and bottles of port.

Thank you very much. The Portofino was one of those rare boats that was actually available in shaft or outdrive configuration. Petrol or diesel for sterndrive option, with KAD42's at 230hp each it's a heavy boat and I understand they can be a struggle to get onto the plane. Shaft option was offered with VP 63p's at 370hp each or the Cats with 420hp each. With the Cats the torque is effortless and she rises onto the plane at about 12 knots!

Good luck finding your next boat, it took us nearly a year to find ours. Hopefully they will all start popping up for sale as we get near season. I understand many are selling before the are even advertised so worth ringing up the brokers and asking if they know of anything coming in and maybe leaving your details.

Simpo Two said:

I have to congratulate you on the way you tackled the vertical learning curve and mentally adopted all the stuff that boats have that cars don't. My first boat was a 23' cabin cruiser from 1972 and that was enough to learn at the time.

You have to own a boat with your heart not your head, and take the bad bits on the chin because you know good bits are around the corner. Even if you don't do many hours in it, it's an escape from hundrumsville, physically and mentally.

As for money pit, it depends what boat you buy, its condition and what you define as a pit... my current boat is having a new hood for its 10th birthday in the spring

Thank you. I couldn't agree more about the heart not head. I wouldn't have had the patience or perseverance to have got this involved without being into it.I think deep down I always knew it was going to have to be a Sunseeker, I just needed to figure out what kind of costs and liabilities we were looking at. As it happens, they are probably among the more complex of vessels with inboards etc and a lot of onboard systems, however I am grateful that there is a proper engine bay to work in, many of the sterndrive ones we looked at were accessed from above, ok for some jobs, but awkward for others.

When I think of some of the boats we looked at, this one had already had a lot of money spent on it by the previous owner who looked after it well, it was the first boat we looked at that didn't really appear to need anything doing to it. Some of the ones we looked it in hindsight would have been considerably more work to get to where we wanted. We got a great canvas and everything we've done will help keep or add value to the boat. I am absolutely delighted with it, when things go wrong there is nothing to do but resolve it, with each thing I do or replace it just gives me more confidence with the boat. I've gone around the whole thing now and cast a critical eye over all of it, found a few things but all in good time to catch it early and prevent it being a much bigger issue.

Happy 10th Bday to your boat, it must be a lovely feeling when the new hood is first fitted!!

As for money pit, I guess when it feels like that is what it is, it's time to get shot. Like L'Oreal, at the moment, it's worth it and I hope it continues to be

[NITO]

Simpo Two said:

I'd had many hours at the wheel with other peoples' boats, but taking your own boat out for the first time is a very different. I set off on my first trip thinking 'What's the the worst that can go wrong? Ah yes, I can sink'. And so I kept checking the bank to make sure it wasn't getting any higher, and looking under the floor to make sure no water was coming in... Seems silly perhaps, but to this day, even though nobody can tell, I'm alert to any change in anything - for example a change in exhaust note indicating the raw water inlet is blocked. Breaking down is not good because there may be nobody around to give you a tow. But you know all that now

Have a great season - when it starts!

Lol, yes, can relate to this. Our maiden voyage was 8 hours around the coast. We stopped a couple of times at sea so I could go below and check in the engine room. Sure enough, around beachy head a little water had entered one of the bilges, about 1L. It was the beginnings of our shaft seal issue from the relatively newly fitted shaft seals but that is resolved now! I thought we'd have to pull the boat out mid season to sort out but managed to correct it in situ. I'm also paranoid about any changes in sound, I think I get more relaxed as time goes on but as you say, when you start off the protective barriers are up and you're ultra paranoid about everything!

dhutch said:

All boats age, but with care and a with a good paint system on the hull, rolling maintenance and replacment of items, the condition is broadly stable and deprecation negligible.

Amen to that. Nice that you all muck in working on that, many hands make light work (theoretically) Here's hoping we can get the kids to help with the anti fouling!

Louis Balfour said:

I appreciate that my costs were minute when compared to those incurred by many boat owners. But, when our usage was also likely to decline,the cost vs enjoyment graph was going the wrong way. The supplying dealer bought it back for what we paid new, after we had enjoyed it for 8 months of regular use.

Friends with boats are quite happy to drop large sums on running them, but boats are their main hobby. Even then, they sometimes break down despite £££££ spent on maintenance. One chap had just spent big money on his cruiser, took a fortnight off to go on holiday in it and it blew a hydraulic hose a mile from the Marina. He was then dependent upon their goodwill to get him going again.

I will own another boat in certain circumstances. For example if I end up living in Italy next to water, or become massively rich to a point where the cost of owning a big boat, probably a new one, is of no consequence. Otherwise I will hire one.

Thanks for the clarification. You obviously did the right thing if you were feeling that way. With regards to your friend, it's not nice being dependent on others. With regards to your lake boat, if I lived by an Italian lake, it would have to be one of these





This one has been up for ages...beautiful looking boats...
https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1978-riva-st-tro...

Good luck with that dream, sounds nice!!

[NITO]

Simpo Two said:

Something you might like to research is Coppercoat. Saves pulling it out of the water every 2-3 years and antifouling.

I think in that position I might choose something that these guys have done: https://www.dennettboatbuilders.co.uk/

Hi, yes we looked at a boat with coppercoat that also had osmosis issues. I spoke to coppercoat at the time who were extremely helpful, it needs applying in warm temps and no sign of rain/moisture ideally. The slightest bit of rain or drop in temp and it's ruined. I think the materials quote was about 1k on a 33 footer. However after doing lots of reading and finding people with wildly differing experiences, plus I'm not so sure how easily it could be removed if wanted, I ended up preferring the idea of sticking with traditional. We've been doing this on the FIL's boat every year for some time now, it's not too bad and looks beautiful when finished! There is some lovely workmanship on those Dennett boats, I hadn't heard of them, thank you for the link, some of those interiors look quite exquisite!!

robm3 said:

That's a good recommendation. Just read a load of reviews about it. Looks interesting.

Thanks, as above, but yes Coppercoat and Hempel's Silic one also looked interesting. We viewed a boat with Silic one on the trim tabs which the owner was really impressed with. I may do my trim tabs and actuators with this stuff.

Brother D said:

Hope you keep up with the blog - fascinating read!

That's very kind of you thank you. I have lots of updating to do, I always thought others would find it quite boring, writing it can be a therapy for insomnia lol, I do it just as a diary entry/musings and to help keep track and act as an aide memoir months/years down the line!!

Jaguar steve said:

Keep reading. Some of what you read about Coppercoat is thinly disguised promotion and advertising.

At the moment and having spoken to a couple of people who've got it I don't believe it lives up to the hype or is worth the cost. That may well change though if the legislation regarding the strength of anti fouling formulations changes again or if DIY use of traditional anti fouling is eventually banned.

Was pretty much my conclusion after lots of reading about the subject. A little too hit and miss for my liking. I guess like with anything much will come down to proper application. I've never dismissed it, hopefully more positive reviews will come out and perhaps as the product or application develops. I got some really good advice from them at the time and was quite sold on the concept but it needs proper independent review in the field. Some have had exceptional results and others far from. I don't want to be one taking that chance with those odds.

Badda said:

The trouble is, boats need lifting annually anyway to replace anodes so the saving that copper coat gives is only the cost of AF (+labour if you’re not willing to do it yourself). My AF this year cost £120….copper coat doesn’t make economic sense to me although the thought of not needing to AF each year is attractive.

I guess anodes could be replaced by a diver to reduce the lift out cost..

I'd want to lift annually anyway. A chance to review everything, the props, rudders, trim tabs, seacocks, bow thruster and as you say all the anodes. According to my survey, it's good practice to lift the boats out and let the hull dry for a few weeks a year and shed some moisture, I have insufficient experience on that so can't comment.

[NITO]

WCZ said:

your sunseeker looks nice!

how far can you go with these, could you go to spain or something with them? what's the range

Thank you. The brochure range is 325 nautical miles out of its 990L fuel tanks. In reality we are filling up at around 160-170miles with about a third of a tank left in there. We did an 8 hour trip around the UK south coast covering around 140 miles at cruising speed.

The previous owners took her as far as La Rochelle, so there is plenty of scope to take it to Spain, it would involve an amount of Marina hopping though!