Inside the Spitfire factory

[Dr Jekyll]

More 4 at 9PM.


Looks like a new series about restorations/rebuilds.

[Dr Jekyll]

Ayahuasca said:

You may be right, but I suspect few (outside of PH, obvs) could tell (or care about) the difference. There are of course Messerschmitt 109s (109S? Sorry, I meant Buffons) with RR engines, and that is a much bigger leap...

Still, hope it is a Napier Sabre!

Technically Buchons rather than 109s so the Merlin is the correct engine. Also real 109 prototypes flew with the Rolls Royce Kestrel and a Junkers Jumo as well as the Daimler Benz engine so a 109 without a different engine is still arguably a 109. While the Typhoon only ever flew with the Napier.

[Dr Jekyll]

LotusOmega375D said:

Are there any Tempests flying? I remember seeing this Tempest II at the Indian Air Force museum. These had Bristol Centaurus radials.

None flying, even with the Centaurus.

[Dr Jekyll]

From what I was told by someone involved in restorations. Building a new Spitfire would cost nearly as much as rebuilding an old one but would be worth far less, customers would always prefer a 'real' one preferably with combat history. The new one would also depreciate in a way the one with an original dataplate wouldn't.

There were few remarks on the show about how making new parts could be cheaper than restoring old ones so this may change. But as with old racing cars the history is always going to be a large part of the value and anyone who could afford to buy and run a brand new one can afford to have an old one built restored.

Having said that only my first lottery win is committed to a genuine WW2 Spitfire, my second one will be devoted to a new build XVI with a glass cockpit. But that's just me.

[Dr Jekyll]

V41LEY said:

Wouldn’t they be ‘continuation’ models with new data plates picking up where the last ones ended. I understand the ‘provenance’ issue but these would therefore be more affordable for more people or syndicates who might choose to buy one. Not a patch on a genuine pucker period plane but exactly the same without the value added by the history. Why stop at Spitfires ? You could order your own non-historic Memorial Flight !

There were some continuation YAK3 fighters built in the USSR in the 90s to the original plans but with American, but still ancient, engines.


There is also a company that claims to have something similar with 75% to 90% scale Spitfires. They have acquired the rights to call themselves Supermarine and call their products the Supermarine Spitfire MK25 and MK26. But these are kits for homebuilt aircraft, perfectly decent products but appearance apart nothing to do with real Spitfires. I'm told the cockpit is actually slightly larger than on the originals otherwise the middle aged blokes who can afford to buy it would never fit in.

I think the kit costs around a quarter of a million £ with about 1200 hours labour to build it.

[Dr Jekyll]

Eric Mc said:

..............................................................................................................................................................
The Fury was a lightweight and shortened Tempest II - but was unwanted by the RAF so ended up being navalised as the Sea Fury - and very good it was too.

And used in original Fury form by the Iraqis until well into the 1960s.

There was also the proposed jet powered Fury that eventually lost (almost?) all it's Fury bits and became the Sea Hawk.

So there's a direct line of descent from the Typhoon right through to the Hunter.

Edited by Dr Jekyll on Friday 23 October 06:41

[Dr Jekyll]

Yertis said:

IIRC fiddling with the bob-weight Eric mentioned was part of the 'solution' but the root problem was aerodynamic, flutter or some such, and the Typhoon was really too fast for its own strength.

I always believed in there being a line of development from Hart through Hurricane to Typhoon, Tempest and Sea Fury, but was firmly told this was not the case by another prolific PHer, of Irish descent and whose knowledge I respect enormously, who was quite adamant that the Sea Fury was born of Hawker's wartime analysis of the FW190.

My understanding was that certainly the cowling was based on examining the FW190, and quite possibly the notion of a much smaller wing. But the Tempest design was the starting point. Whether it was a case of 'how can we improve the Tempest? let's look at a FW190 for ideas'. or 'Let's make our own FW190, but base it on the Tempest rather than start from scratch'. I don't know.

[Dr Jekyll]

Does anyone recognise the airfield where the Merlin was tested on a truck?

[Dr Jekyll]

Thanks