£7k - reliable - good off road ?
Discussion
Hi all
I've just had to get rid of my D1 300tdi due to a spectacular MOT failure list. I've got up to £7k for a reliable 4x4, preferably something I could chuck some mud tyres on if I felt like it without having to do a 4" life etc.
I've been trawling autotrader and ebay and keep coming back to Jeep's, around my budget are the WK grand cherokees 3.0CRD 2008/2009ish, the only thing that puts me off is the £535 road tax. But in the grand scheme of things it's only £44 a month, it just sounds a lot when not broken down.
Any other suggestions welcome.
I've just had to get rid of my D1 300tdi due to a spectacular MOT failure list. I've got up to £7k for a reliable 4x4, preferably something I could chuck some mud tyres on if I felt like it without having to do a 4" life etc.
I've been trawling autotrader and ebay and keep coming back to Jeep's, around my budget are the WK grand cherokees 3.0CRD 2008/2009ish, the only thing that puts me off is the £535 road tax. But in the grand scheme of things it's only £44 a month, it just sounds a lot when not broken down.
Any other suggestions welcome.
pcn1 said:
Ive seen add's for late model 3.0 crd WK's, 2011 onwards, indiccating road tax at £295 ?
Yeah there classed as WK2's, the WK's ran from 2005 to 2010 and are in the highest tax band. The cheapest WK2 is £11,995 unfortunately but they do look 1000x better than the WK's (in my eyes anyway). KevinCamaroSS said:
Go for a slightly earlier (2005) WK and the tax is 'only' £300'ish. Anything pre March/April 2006 is cheaper. Mine is a 55 plate, cost less than £3.5K but needed stuff done (about £900).
Yeah that's the killer isn't it, seems like anything newer than 2005 and 4x4 is automatically in the highest tax band unless it's a really small engine. Was looking at the 3.0 v6 diesel Touareg's aswell, but again they all have £535 tax.driverrob said:
I had the , now obsolete, 2007 2.0l petrol model. I even went on an off-roading driving lesson locally but never found the need to use its prowess in that area. The buyer clearly intended to, though.
Here's one typical review http://www.driveblog.co.uk/index_files/1304-suzuki... and there are loads of videos on Youtube.
You'll find better off-road options but not nearly new and in your price range.
Seems like a fairly impressive review, might have to take a test drive of one to see what I think. Thanks for the suggestion, would have never looked otherwise.Here's one typical review http://www.driveblog.co.uk/index_files/1304-suzuki... and there are loads of videos on Youtube.
You'll find better off-road options but not nearly new and in your price range.
300bhp/ton said:
What sort of off roading and what sort of their use and how much??
I like the look of the WK's myself. Although if you aren't doing big mileage you might want to look for a 5.7 V8. If you are going to off road properly in it. Then look for one with Quadra Drive 2. They don't all have it and it will make a big difference off road.
I'd also say consider other Land Rover products. L322, RRS and D3's are all likely in budget. And Freelander 2's for lighter duty off road.
Only maybe 1 or 2 pay and play days a month but wouldn't mind something with the potential to take a bit further with modifications if I felt like it. With regards to the big engined petrol jeeps, I do about 10K year to work an and back but once a year I drive to southern Spain and back (3000 mile round trip roughly) so that rules them out unfortunatelyI like the look of the WK's myself. Although if you aren't doing big mileage you might want to look for a 5.7 V8. If you are going to off road properly in it. Then look for one with Quadra Drive 2. They don't all have it and it will make a big difference off road.
I'd also say consider other Land Rover products. L322, RRS and D3's are all likely in budget. And Freelander 2's for lighter duty off road.
I do keep looking at D3's but i always find myself coming across horror stories of suspension failures and repairs costing people thousands.
InitialDave said:
Or spend the £7k on ten rough Discoveries. On any given day, one will probably be working.
Though less facetiously, if you liked the Discovery and the mean time between failures is at least acceptable, why not get another one? You wouldn't need to spend anywhere near your budget for a pretty good one, and if you keep on top of them with rustproofing and preventative maintenance, you shouldn't end up back in the "terminally large bill" scenario with it.
I bought it a year ago with a years mot knowing it probably wouldn't pass, I'm wanting something newer now.Though less facetiously, if you liked the Discovery and the mean time between failures is at least acceptable, why not get another one? You wouldn't need to spend anywhere near your budget for a pretty good one, and if you keep on top of them with rustproofing and preventative maintenance, you shouldn't end up back in the "terminally large bill" scenario with it.
300bhp/ton said:
Pay N Play sites can be a bit brutal. Not sure I'd personally want to take a £7k vehicle to one. As the risk of damage is normally high.
The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
Whilst I appreciate all suggestions, I dont know if you saw my post about doing a 3000 mile round trip once a year to southern spain. A car like that would very probably turn me insane by the time I got there, never mind back.The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
Hainey said:
A really nice Disco 2 if you don't fancy the Disco 3 supension and spun bearing gamble and keep the rest in a play/bork/upgrade/fun fund.
I'm sure there are issues with the Disco 2 suspension as well, I always read about the "3 Amigos"? and I've seen quite a few for sale that have been swapped onto coil springs. Not sure if this is a good thing or not, guessing it must be or just a cheap fix? A bit like fitting "ditch finder" tyres when a car hit's a certain age because decent ones are too expensive 
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Could you get a normal cheap to run car, such as a focus, and a rough modified 4x4 to play with?
I did think about this and your post has made me think about it even more now, the only downsides are two lots of insurance, two lots of tax etc. I keep looking at a manual 3.2 boxster for £5500 - £6000 and then something four wheel drive with a years MOT for the remaining £1,000.I've thought about having something like a off-road only Jimny that I trailered to pay and plays with something like an older Jeep, although i'm 27 so can only have a combined 3.5 tons for everything so i'm not sure on that.
300bhp/ton said:
D2's could be had with coil springs or coil front and air rear.
3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
Thanks for clarifying that, didn't realise it was coil all round or air rear only, I'm guessing this was for heavy towing etc.3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
300bhp/ton said:
Not sure I follow. One of the most common overland vehicles are Defenders. I have several friends that have driven to Morocco, Finland, Malta and other places in Defenders. A PS-10 will match a Defender in this role.
Yeah, as Paddy_N_Murphy says, I cant imagine travelling that distance in a PS-10 would be as refined as I might like but if there used in overland expeditions then who am I to say otherwise. I haven't tried one but I cant imagine sitting at 70mph in one for 500 miles a day over 3 days would be enjoyable, the sound proofing and road noise must be quite terrible as standard I would assume.Hainey said:
The airbags are great, they allow you to raise the car up and down from inside for towing and also the cars brain realises when the centre of the vehicle is 'beached' when off road and raises the rear to get you out of trouble. It's a really clever system and I wish mine had it!
Mine was springs from the factory with ACE, which is all good and another really clever system. There are factory explanation videos on you tube about ACE if your interested.
As for the three amigos and the internet panic they sparked around 2006 onwards, it's no big deal. You can by the actuator from Wabco and its easy to fix. All the issues are known now and can be fixed very cheaply.
If you are driving to Spain, I think the D2 or D3 would be great choices personally. I quantify that statement as I lived in Southern Spain for over a year and I used to do that drive myself, before the silver highway was opened and a few times after.
Thanks for that info, what year is your disco? Have you had to start cutting and welding yet?Mine was springs from the factory with ACE, which is all good and another really clever system. There are factory explanation videos on you tube about ACE if your interested.
As for the three amigos and the internet panic they sparked around 2006 onwards, it's no big deal. You can by the actuator from Wabco and its easy to fix. All the issues are known now and can be fixed very cheaply.
If you are driving to Spain, I think the D2 or D3 would be great choices personally. I quantify that statement as I lived in Southern Spain for over a year and I used to do that drive myself, before the silver highway was opened and a few times after.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
OP - just seen on my lunch two possibles:
Nissan Pathfinder,
or its bigger (older) brother, Nissan Patrol.
Initial Thoughts?
I've looked at the Pathfinder before, looks suspiciously like a Navara to me? I don't know if you know anything more about the underpinnings of it with regards to if they share a chassis or not but the Navara has massive issues with it splitting in half doesn't it? Nissan Pathfinder,
or its bigger (older) brother, Nissan Patrol.
Initial Thoughts?
If I was to go for the Patrol I think it would have to be the 4.2, there was a cracker on ebay about a week ago but they command a massive premium. I think they wanted £7,000 for it, similar prices to the 4.2 land cruisers.
Going to look at a Disco 3 either tonight or tomorrow, bog standard spec, coil springs, manual etc. that's been sold by a friend of the family's for cheap. Will update with pictures if I do the deal. This should also leave me with enough change to buy a clio 172 or 182 for track days. Something I've always wanted to try.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
300bhp/ton said:
Just a heads up, a coil sprung D3 is the below base spec model (pretty much only sold in the UK, wasn't even offered in markets like the USA).
This isn't a bad thing exactly, but it will be lacking any of the modern toys. But more importantly is also lacks the Terrain Response System, it only comes with a basic traction control.
Without the air suspension they are also comparatively worse off road. The air suspension uses cross linked air bags, so as one wheel is pushed up, it automatically pushes the opposite wheel down. It does this to simulate how a live axle works off road. And makes the vehicle far more stable and capable.
The coil springs cannot do this. And of course you get much lower ground clearance too, as they aren't able to raise themselves up like the air suspension does.
If you aren't going to off road much then it's not an issue. The coil D3 will have similar off road abilities to a Freelander, just bigger and heavier. So wet grass, snow, even sand it'll be very good. But anything really rough or even deep tramlines, such as man green lanes, you find it's not as capable as you were expecting.
Also, to fit MT's on a D3, the normal route is to buy some lift rods/Johnsons Rods. These are small metal/plastic rods that set the air suspension height. Super easy to fit, about 10 mins and completely reversible. But it allows an air sprung D3 to run an inch or so higher, so you can fit bigger tyres without rubbing.
But it really comes down to how much off road use and the type you are expecting to do.
Or to paraphrase a coil spring D3 is too off roading what a 1.2 Clio would be as a track car, vs the air sprung D3 and Clio 182.
Yeah I understand all of that, there is a blank space next to the hi/lo range button where the suspension lift and terrain response should be but I think for what I want to use it for it should be ok. I have also found that old man emu do a 2" coil for the D3 that would be an option if I needed more lift.This isn't a bad thing exactly, but it will be lacking any of the modern toys. But more importantly is also lacks the Terrain Response System, it only comes with a basic traction control.
Without the air suspension they are also comparatively worse off road. The air suspension uses cross linked air bags, so as one wheel is pushed up, it automatically pushes the opposite wheel down. It does this to simulate how a live axle works off road. And makes the vehicle far more stable and capable.
The coil springs cannot do this. And of course you get much lower ground clearance too, as they aren't able to raise themselves up like the air suspension does.
If you aren't going to off road much then it's not an issue. The coil D3 will have similar off road abilities to a Freelander, just bigger and heavier. So wet grass, snow, even sand it'll be very good. But anything really rough or even deep tramlines, such as man green lanes, you find it's not as capable as you were expecting.
Also, to fit MT's on a D3, the normal route is to buy some lift rods/Johnsons Rods. These are small metal/plastic rods that set the air suspension height. Super easy to fit, about 10 mins and completely reversible. But it allows an air sprung D3 to run an inch or so higher, so you can fit bigger tyres without rubbing.
But it really comes down to how much off road use and the type you are expecting to do.
Or to paraphrase a coil spring D3 is too off roading what a 1.2 Clio would be as a track car, vs the air sprung D3 and Clio 182.
I have looked at what tyres will fit the 17" wheels and I can get some pretty decent 245/70/17 size tyres on there without any lift at all. BF Goodrich do a mud terrain and an all terrain tyre in that size. That should also give more lift all around aswell.
Edited by NickColl89 on Wednesday 10th May 10:09
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