AT Tyres - To BFG or not to BFG

[caelite]

Hey guys

I preface this by saying, I do a fairly large amount of offroad driving, namely in pickups, sometimes in vans/trucks. The vans & trucks are fitted with regional distribution spec commercial tyres, however all of our pickups are fitted with BFG ATs (mostly KO2s, some with the older KOs). In the past I have owned a L200 on old KOs, and had a Shogun, which initially equiped with Goodyear Wranglers (which where pants), I replaced with BFGs. So, the BFGoodrich AT is a tyre I know rather well, and I hold them to very high regard, they perform better than anything else I have ran (Wranglers, Insa retreads, Bridgestone Duallers).

I am now looking for tyres for my new Jimny to replace its road tyres (also going slightly larger with a lift). My immediate thought was to just go out and buy a set of BFGs, as historically I have always recommended people do, so priced them up, £115 in 215/75r15, £575 for a set of 5. I am used to them being expensive, but, in the Jimny size it really seems excessive, as they come to the market double the price of comparable tyres. So, I have been looking at alternatives, Toyo Open Countries AT+, Hankook Dynapro, Cooper Discoverers and Falken Wildpeaks all falling within a £60-80/corner range, so £300-400 all in. Now I haven't tried any of these personally but after reading plenty of reviews they are all 'comparable' to the BFGs. Really just looking for someone to talk me into some of them, local tyre guy recommends the Toyos, & is the one I think I am most likely to go for as they seem to be fairly widely adopted, particularly in the US.

[caelite]

Yeah, likely will have that problem with everything though, Suzuki comes from the factory with 96 rated bridgestone dualer HTs. Which do feel like roughly the right amount of stiffness I will admit. Scaling up to 'proper' AT sizes (options for 205/70r15 are minimal), most big brands start their range around 215/75r15, it is also a size commonly adopted by Suzuki owners everywhere, and the largest size that was ever fitted to the vehicle from the factory (certain Brazilian market models came from the factory with a small lift, trimmed bumper & 215/75r15 BFG KM2s).

However with the proper AT tyres the majority carry 98 to 101 load ratings, the ones that don't tend to be brands I wouldn't really trust in the wilderness.

I like the BFG tread pattern, I really am doubting it really merits the ~60% increased cost over say a Toyo Open Country, a tyre held in very high regard as almost equal to the BFG in the American market.

Edited by caelite on Sunday 14th January 17:27

[caelite]

V10 SPM said:

Interesting discussion as I was also considering the BFG All Terrain KO2 or similar alternatives for my 4x4. Am I right in thinking that it is specified as a mud and snow tyre but that it isn't classified as "all weather" or "winter"?

As a general rule most ATs are 'all season' compounds, designed for performance on tarmac,gravel & some mud. This tread pattern just happens to work on snow better than a conventional road tyre, but is not a true winter tyre and do tend to stiffen up a lot in cold weather. I know that in powdery snow a lot of ATs suffer the same way they do in sticky mud, it wedges in the treadblock and turns the tyre into a racing slick. Proper mud tyres do better to disperse mud from their blocks, proper snow tyres do better to disperse snow from their tread blocks. All terrains are as their name suggests, an attempt at a jack of all trades. I do know some of them (most from good brands) perform well enough for a 'snowy mountain peak' symbol, properly defining them as a winter tyre in countries where that is a legal requirement (the M+S that most dodgy Chinese companies put on the side of their tyres doesn't actually count).

My personal opinion is that you really can't go wrong with a set of BFGs. They are, again in my opinion, the market leader in AT tyres. However the sticking point I am having is that plenty of other tyres review as comparable to the BFGs, so with performance so close the BFGs but costing half as much, this price difference seems to be particularly great in certain sizes.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheels-tires/129...

What seems nuts to me is, obviously when you look online for reviews of offroad tyres the results are saturated by American, and some Australian results, which makes sense as those types of vehicle are far more common there. However reviewers seem to put all the tyres on a fairly equal pedestal, the linked test stating, fairly scientifically that from a sidewall toughness perspective, they are all similar, offroad the BFG was better when it was sandy, the toyo/hankook when it was gravely with a solid base (the latter imo is what you see on most Scottish forestry tracks, my usage case) on the road they where comparable (this test was on the original ko, the newer ko2 is a noted improvement). From a longevity perspective, again BFGs set the standard with 50-70k miles being the norm, but Toyo offers a 55-65k mileage warranty on their own AT in some markets, again making me believe they are comparable in that sense too. So with tests like this and countless others being about with similar 'comparable' results. It boggles the mind that, in my size, I can get an Open Country for £65, but a BFG is £115 (75% more). I like BFG but I am really considering whether or not they demand such a price premium. I know many UK offroaders hold them on a pedestal above the rest, I'm beginning to thing this might be more market perception rather than actual performance, another review I watched a while ago called BFG's 'dad tyres', in the sense that everyone over a certain age has absolute faith in them, as historically they are the best by a long margin, however also stating that other manufacturers have well and truly caught up. It also mimics my real life scenario, my dad (guy in his mid 50s), my boss (guy in his mid 60s) and the owner of my local tyre shop (guy in his 50s) all strongly recommend BFG, blindly denying any comparison.

You know the more I write about my logic process the more it sways my heart away from just going with what I know.

[caelite]

popeyewhite said:

Yes the GG AT2s are very good in snow. I've been running Yokohama Geolandar ATs this winter in the High Peak. M+S rated and also have the mountain/snowflake symbol to denote a winter tyre. In my opinion even better than the GG, but slightly noisier.

Yokos is what I have ended up with, heard similar reviews that they are MUCH better than they look at a glance (like a deep treaded HT). Great price for what you get £80 in my size, vs £115 BFG, £88 GGs or £71 Toyo's at time of purchase. EDIT: Ended up with GGs in the end, the supplier I bought the yokos from was having all sorts of problems sourcing them. In the end they offered me a refund, but where happy to simply supply me GG AT3s for the same price as the Yokos.

Have yet to fit them, bought them at the end of Feb still trying to source a set of wheels (if anyone's got a set of stock Jimny steels give me a shout )

Edited by caelite on Monday 9th July 11:56

[caelite]

Well, the weather is wintering up. I went through my first sleet with the GG AT3s. I must say, their cornering grip is great even in crap conditions, however, whilst I haven't noticed it well braking, they do like to let loose a bit with heavy acceleration from low speed/stationary, that being said I know the old KOs used to do the same in my work pickup when unladen.