4x4 recommendation for soft verges
Discussion
ninjag said:
If you are going onto the soft verge then it may be safe to assume that both the front and rear near side wheels will be on the slippy stuff? Any AWD car with open diffs could still struggle because all the power will just follow the path of least resistance, i.e. the two wheels on the verge. With an open diff AWD system you can have just one wheel spinning or both wheels on the SAME axle spinning, but if there's one wheel spinning on each axle at the same time then you're going to be stuck. A lockable centre diff won't help either (such as the Kia Sorento, Santa Fe, Grand Vitara etc) as all it does is force a 50/50 split of power to each axle but each individual axle still has open diffs. It's a bit of waste really especially with viscous couplings being used now that take care of this automatically (to a certain extent depending on the system). This would be a good time to mention that the Kia and Hyundai AWD system is woefully incapable of handling the +400Nm of torque of the 2.2 diesel produces. The viscous coupling are notorious for going bad (£2k), the transfer case (£3k), rear diff (£3k). Hence those out of warranty suffer huge depreciation.
You will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choiceYou will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Edited by ninjag on Monday 8th October 14:00
ninjag said:
If you are going onto the soft verge then it may be safe to assume that both the front and rear near side wheels will be on the slippy stuff? Any AWD car with open diffs could still struggle because all the power will just follow the path of least resistance, i.e. the two wheels on the verge. With an open diff AWD system you can have just one wheel spinning or both wheels on the SAME axle spinning, but if there's one wheel spinning on each axle at the same time then you're going to be stuck. A lockable centre diff won't help either (such as the Kia Sorento, Santa Fe, Grand Vitara etc) as all it does is force a 50/50 split of power to each axle but each individual axle still has open diffs. It's a bit of waste really especially with viscous couplings being used now that take care of this automatically (to a certain extent depending on the system). This would be a good time to mention that the Kia and Hyundai AWD system is woefully incapable of handling the +400Nm of torque of the 2.2 diesel produces. The viscous coupling are notorious for going bad (£2k), the transfer case (£3k), rear diff (£3k). Hence those out of warranty suffer huge depreciation.
You will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Ummm, I didn't know what you said but makes sense when you see the price of the 2nd hand KIA etc and great food for thought; appreciated. . . Do you have a recommendation of what make/model to be included on a shortlist? The area where I live Disco 2 and Landrover seem the weapons of choiceYou will have slightly more chance than a standard FWD or RWD car because you have double the chance of getting a little bite but what you really need is either a car with a locking diff, lsd or one which can use the ABS/Stability control systems to effectively 'trick' the system by locking up the spinning wheel so power is then sent to the other wheel on that axle which has grip. I'm sure my BMW 330d X-Drive did this because I was driving about in snow which was causing many a AWD jeep to get stuck. There's also locking hubs, the Jimny using an automatic system using vacuum I think.
There's some YouTube videos showing diagonal tests of AWD systems which may be worth a watch. Look out for the ones which have three wheels in the air and see how they deal with it.
Also, when I say AWD I just mean a car which can put power to both axles whether it be full-time or part-time. There's a debate between the terminology of AWD and 4WD etc. Should also state, I'm far from an expert or anything with AWD, this is just bits and bobs I've picked up over time so happy to be corrected and educated!
Edited by ninjag on Monday 8th October 14:00
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