Clio 172/182 as a competition car?

[confucuis]

Hi guys,

At the moment I'm looking to start competing in my own car, during the summer gone by I double drove in my fathers historic Cooper S he and I built together and competed in the Irish hillcimb championship. Given the cars age, monetary and sentimental value, the mini might not be used as often during the coming years.

With this in mind I'm looking at getting something for myself and originally though 106/saxo but there doesn't seem to be any good ones about! However the Clios interested me quite a bit so basically I'm looking for any information anyone might have on them with regards to competing? Are they costly to run? Hard to drive? Unreliable? Uncompetitive? There are hardly any used in competition over here in Ireland so I know next to nothing about them! The fact they're 2 litre worries me slightly as they would, in my uninformed view, come up against more powerful 2 litre cars like redtop escorts or civics? How do they fare against other 2 litre cars? The car would be used for hillclimbing, sprints, trackdays and maybe the odd rally!

If you can think of any other cars I may have missed out on feel free to tell me!

And mods please move if in the wrong place!

[confucuis]

Thanks for the replies guys, it's sorta as I thought, they can be both quick and slow, depends on the driver/car combination.

Basically, the odds are against me doing this but my thinking is fk it, I'm in a position do at least try to do it so I should! I'm restricted by the trailer and work space I have at the moment, so my thinking was 106/saxo/clio/punto as they're all quite small. I've been looking at EP3's as well but most are out of my budget and/or pushing out more horsepower than I would be comfortable with at the beginning!

I also considered the clio due to availability, there are a few within my price range, though they would require some travelling to get to!

Thurbs said:

I have raced in the 750mc Clio 182 Championship and in the CSCC Tin Tops for 2 years. Here are some of my thoughts.

Pros
- Cheap to buy
- Cheap to fix
- Parts are cheap (wheels, tyres etc)
- Are reasonably quick out the box with only suspension & wheels needed to go racing
- Don’t bother upgrading brakes, just put CL pads in
- Eligible for lots of series including the single make (182 only)
- Rear very stable
- Brakes very good and stable even with ABS
- Great in the wet

Cons
- Lots of understeer (beam setup on rear)
- Standard engine is already near the top of what is possible, max power with lots of mods 240-250bhp, standard Civics will still breeze past
- Standard valves weak, as are clutches

What are the rules like in 750mc regarding modifying cars? Just seeing Puma's and Fiesta's out dragging you makes me think twice about it. Don't get me wrong, I've competed in my Cooper S against much more powerful cars and won so I know how to get at least some time out of them but a car which has bigger displacement been out dragged by a car with less displacement would worry me slightly!

I'd use if for basically anything I could! RSA sprints+ trackdays seem the most appealing to me due to value for money, if I were to hillclimb one it would be in the Ultimate Saloon Class 2 for modified cars up to 2 litre, the main competition coming from 230+ sequential civics which would eat most things alive!

Am I overlooking anything obvious car wise that would be around the same size as the clio? Can't really think of anything else!

[confucuis]

Thurbs said:

he Snetterton video I had a coil pack failing which meant mega misfires especially up the rev range however other videos show the same performance differential. One of those Puma's has a special ford motorsport engine in it and is 220+ bhp. One Fiesta racing has 240bhp and 750kg. The Hondas are more like 300bhp. The superfast Clio 172 has 240bhp, 850KG and IRS. I think 4 cars on the grid are ex BTCC production cars with lots of trickery suspension and engines.

This is the stark choice you have. Go single make with a standard ish car and accept rubbing. Go power to weight and accept spending money on the car and probably rubbing. Go open and spend lots of money. The fastest drivers tend to err on single make also but this is not always the case.

The 750mc championship is a low-cost way of racing a clio for single make. All cars on standard engines, boxes etc. Control suspension & ECU. Very close racing with some grids having 15 cars separated by 1s. The onus is on skill. Prepped cars are around £6k. Arrive and drive around £14k for the season (excluding entry but include tyres & testing). Finally, if you buy a Clio, only pay £800 for one from a scrap yard as a MOT failure/broken gear box or something. Don’t buy a £2k autotrader one, it is not worth it.

Here are some examples of equal cars racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei7rqZtIT-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPIXccDR1h4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X2TeoaEFUs

I went with the Clio partly because it could race in loads and loads of series and championship. What I didn’t realise at the time is, if you want to win then you can only do it by focusing in on one thing and extracting all the performance you can for that series. If you want to experience it all (like I did), a Clio is a great choice.

Finally, once you race, track days become very tedious and tame. I wouldn’t dream about doing one “for fun” but just use them as occasionally frustrating testing sessions. We were at Donington yesterday with 40 cars booked in. Nearly 30 track day heros didn’t show or went home by lunchtime due to rain so the 10 (mostly) race cars left had a virtually private wet test session.

I have never sprinted as I always knew most of the fun is going door to door and coming out the corner ahead (whether for 1st or 21st it is epic fun). If you think about it, you get to “sprint” or compete against the clock in qualifying but just with others around you & getting in the way… There is a definite skill in sprinting though. Only having 8 goes at a layout is mind boggling as I usually test for up to 40 laps before then having 8 goes during qualifying…

I was wondering alright, that was a rapid little puma lol!

I've my eye on three different cars atm, but they are all 4k+, these would be race cars rather than a standard car. I wonder would it be better just to go out and get a standard one and fit a cage! In Ireland, you can't compete in anything without some sort of cage in the car, so the standard classes don't exist over here unfortunately! Though with the way insurance has gone, ya probably couldn't anyway!

[confucuis]

Rather than starting another thread, I thought I'd ask here.

Does anyone know anything about Suzuki Swifts/Cultus? I had originally been looking at these and 106's but they had all disappeared off the classifieds! Now a nice 106 and a nice Swift have both come up!

What should I keep in mind when it comes to the Swift? Given they're getting on a bit in age, I'd need to make sure the body was rust free. Are parts getting expensive? It would fit perfectly into the sub 1.4 catogries and would be a cheap bit of craic I think! The 106 is 5k, 1.5 more than the Swift but I can't see where from the pics the 106 justifies the big price difference!

[confucuis]

velocemitch said:

I expect the 106 (Saxo) will be inherently more competitive in its class than the Swift as it weighs nothing. A proper Phase 1 106 1.3 Rallye if you could find one particularly so.

I always assumed the Swift (the original one now, not the newer model) was the go to model for 1.3's, that the twincam engine was extremely good? I hadn't really considered anything other than the 1.6 for the 106!

[confucuis]

velocemitch said:

The original 1294cc Engine in the Rallye s1 is basically an homologation special made for the French Rally championship, you will struggle to find a better more tuneable engine. One of those in a really light 106 shell takes some beating.
Quite rare now though.

The list grows longer....

[confucuis]

avenger286 said:

Would something on the 1600 class be any good for what you are doing?

Definetely, my only true limitations are is has to fit on our trailer (I don't want to have to go down the route of getting a new trailer + tow car etc) and budget (max 6000, maybe slightly more if it;s really special!).