Spire GT3 RGB Racer
Discussion
Bought this last weekend and planning to race it in 2018, did the ARDS test and got the National B race licence last month. Have wanted to do some car racing for a while ever since I stopped racing karts , but it's taken some time for it to become financially viable. Currently a list of jobs to do, mostly general maintenance/prep and tailoring it to fit me. Will document the changes/work as I go. Don't have lots of pics, here's one from collection.
Specs are 580KG including driver - luckily it's a light car as I'm not a particularly lightweight boy..! And approx. 170hp at the rear wheels from the GSXR 1000 K8 Motorcycle Engine. The cars produce an inherent amount of downforce but are not allowed to run any wings, or aero add ons & have to run A048 control dry tyres.
First race is in March '18 at Donny but I'm on the fence as to whether to skip a few of the earlier rounds in favour of track days to familiarise with the car. Either that or it's some winter track time and try and do every round. Don't really want to miss Donnington, but have to be realistic. I have owned a bike engine car before but it was fairly different. I'm more concerned about learning the car than the tracks at first.
Also the 750MC have just done a cool little promo vid for the series, see here
http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/rgb.htm
Specs are 580KG including driver - luckily it's a light car as I'm not a particularly lightweight boy..! And approx. 170hp at the rear wheels from the GSXR 1000 K8 Motorcycle Engine. The cars produce an inherent amount of downforce but are not allowed to run any wings, or aero add ons & have to run A048 control dry tyres.
First race is in March '18 at Donny but I'm on the fence as to whether to skip a few of the earlier rounds in favour of track days to familiarise with the car. Either that or it's some winter track time and try and do every round. Don't really want to miss Donnington, but have to be realistic. I have owned a bike engine car before but it was fairly different. I'm more concerned about learning the car than the tracks at first.
Also the 750MC have just done a cool little promo vid for the series, see here
http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/rgb.htm
foggy said:
Looks good, hope you have fun with it. BECs are great aren’t they, full on intense experience what with the sequential ‘box and engine buzzing away. Cheap as chips too relatively speaking.
I guess it depends what you’re comparing them to, this breed of rear engined RGB cars I wouldn’t call cheap. But road going bike engined kit cars can indeed be had relatively cheaply.These have practically evolved from kit cars now to purpose built and designed sports prototypes. As with any motorsport the cars at the sharp end are valued the highest and you would struggle to pick up a 2017 spec Spire GT3 for less than £25k.
There are some great cars out there for less than half of that though and a few instances over the years have proved that the driver is still the biggest variable in it all. Mine is a 2011 car, brought up to date in around 2015 I believe. The main update or mod available for my car that I’m aware of is a lower drag front clip, but I’m told that would also reduce downforce so I’m just going to try it as it is for now as I suspect I’ll be the biggest limiting factor until I’m fully up to speed with the car.
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 14th December 07:28
Have spent a couple of days on it so far, mainly just based on getting the car to fit me.
Had my supervisor in attendance
Moved the pedals as far away as possible, and made new mounts to fit the seat in lower and right back. The previous driver was 5ft5 and I’m 6ft1 so it couldn’t have been any less suited to me! Had to make a new clutch stop too.
Could do with taking a wire brush and some hammerite to some parts of the chassis although it’s generally in good condition.
Shortened the paddles on the gearshift as they were just fouling my knees and I shouldn’t be changing gear with much lock on anyway. I’m also going to fit a flat bottomed steering wheel to gain that last bit of space but it feels fairly comfortable now.
Another thing I’ve done is spent some time trying to get the pedals at the right height. Maybe it was just personal preference but when I got the car the throttle pedal was a good inch higher than the brake pedal and too far away. So when the brake was depressed it was even further away making it impossible to be able to blip the throttle whilst braking and downshifting.
I’ve managed to get them near enough the right height then got the final bit by modifying the throttle pedal, welding a new pedal on which is wider and slightly further back. Now it’s possible just by rolling my foot as it’s at the same height as the brake when depressed and much closer. Clutch is further away but actually well placed so my heel isn’t clashing with the chassis bar along the floor. Just need to try it now, I’m pretty much done with regards to making it fit me unless I find loads more things after a first outing.
Other jobs are a full service, general once over and lube of everything. Maybe paint a few bits of the chassis and tart the front clam up. Car has good wets on it but need to get some A048s on the spare wheels. Then it’s more or less ready to try out.
Had my supervisor in attendance
Moved the pedals as far away as possible, and made new mounts to fit the seat in lower and right back. The previous driver was 5ft5 and I’m 6ft1 so it couldn’t have been any less suited to me! Had to make a new clutch stop too.
Could do with taking a wire brush and some hammerite to some parts of the chassis although it’s generally in good condition.
Shortened the paddles on the gearshift as they were just fouling my knees and I shouldn’t be changing gear with much lock on anyway. I’m also going to fit a flat bottomed steering wheel to gain that last bit of space but it feels fairly comfortable now.
Another thing I’ve done is spent some time trying to get the pedals at the right height. Maybe it was just personal preference but when I got the car the throttle pedal was a good inch higher than the brake pedal and too far away. So when the brake was depressed it was even further away making it impossible to be able to blip the throttle whilst braking and downshifting.
I’ve managed to get them near enough the right height then got the final bit by modifying the throttle pedal, welding a new pedal on which is wider and slightly further back. Now it’s possible just by rolling my foot as it’s at the same height as the brake when depressed and much closer. Clutch is further away but actually well placed so my heel isn’t clashing with the chassis bar along the floor. Just need to try it now, I’m pretty much done with regards to making it fit me unless I find loads more things after a first outing.
Other jobs are a full service, general once over and lube of everything. Maybe paint a few bits of the chassis and tart the front clam up. Car has good wets on it but need to get some A048s on the spare wheels. Then it’s more or less ready to try out.
hesconfucuis said:
Really love these types of threads about cool race cars. Never heard of spire before , watching with interest!
I guess they are more obscure than something like a radical but they have been winning races and championships now for a good few years at different levels. They go well in bike sports/OSS too which is a slicks and wings formula. This was my car before it was converted back to RGB spec. They look awesome in bike sports spec but slicks and wings racing is more expensive in general plus you really need something like a haybusa engine to be competitive.
ol said:
Looks great, and you'll love RGB - you commented on my Ultima readers car thread - would love to know more about the Ferrari engined Ultima too.
I knew Ollie who used to race in RGB under VR motorsport - If you're on the grid in 2018 come and say hello when Locost are racing the same weekends - I race with SRB racing and like to watch RGB when our calendars overlap, so I'll keep an eye out for you
Cheers, hope so! Unfortunately there’s no build thread as such but I do have a load of pics etc, it’s a lovely thing, no doubt it won’t have the power yours has but different strokes for different folks and all that. Awesome cars.I knew Ollie who used to race in RGB under VR motorsport - If you're on the grid in 2018 come and say hello when Locost are racing the same weekends - I race with SRB racing and like to watch RGB when our calendars overlap, so I'll keep an eye out for you
Mine is Rab Gardiners old car so was once the sister car to Ollys. Looking at the calendar we should be at a few rounds together so I’ll be sure to say hi!
spyder dryver said:
Nice car Yazza!
A little example here of the capability of the GT3. My friend Tim Gray, multiple Locost, RGB and Bikesports champion scything through the pack at Anglesey.
I have the battle scarred bodywork from one of Tim's championship winning cars on my Phoenix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0DNYR0fyAk
Good video, have been watching a lot of the onboards recently. Things have moved on a bit more since then with mostly rear engined cars out there but I still believe that generation of GT3 is quite capable. The drivers at the sharp end usually seem to be in the later GT3 or the Mittell MC53, but I think it’s still more down to the driver than anything else. I suspect Tim would still be capable of winning in the older GT3, but it’s only natural that everyone wants the latest and greatest kit. A new GT3 would set me back 3x what I’ve paid for mine, so I’m happy for now..!A little example here of the capability of the GT3. My friend Tim Gray, multiple Locost, RGB and Bikesports champion scything through the pack at Anglesey.
I have the battle scarred bodywork from one of Tim's championship winning cars on my Phoenix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0DNYR0fyAk
Whether my car is capable of anything better than top 5 I’m not really sure, but regardless I know I’m probably not going to be, at least for a while... hopefully I’ll gel with the car.
Will be interesting to see how many drivers have registered as they have made a few changes to try and entice people back, hopefully some of the guys with front engined cars sat collecting dust might come back out.
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 4th January 22:29
Popped up to see the VR racing guys yesterday, there was another load of spares that were found as well as some bigger bits we couldn’t take when we collected the car such as a large quick lift jack, stands, tracking bars and other useful bits, sprockets, cables brake pads, spare drive shaft and joints etc etc. Really useful stuff that they acquired over time, so made up with all that.
Had a good chat with Colin who looks after the car and Vincent who owns the team, both top blokes, down to earth and have been very helpful - bit of a rarity in the motorsport world, well at least from what I remember from my karting days..!
Had a good look around and sit in this beast they are running this year - Praga R1T
Awesome thing, many intricate details to admire looking round it. Sitting in it was how I imagine a fighter jet cockpit to be. Although it actually fit quite well, more comfortable than my spire...! But much harder to get out of
When I got back I had a bit of a play with the car as I’ve not had much chance to work on it over Christmas. Fitted a new flat bottomed steering wheel, it’s reasonably comfortable now and my knees are no longer fouling the wheel and paddles etc.
Something that’s also been bugging me is the feel from the gearchange paddles. When I had my R1 engined fisher fury it was a lot more weighted with more feel. On the spire it was a bit floppy and the paddle came right back to the wheel.
Again no disrespect to the previous owners, no doubt it was their drivers personal preference again, but I don’t like controls to be too light because they can lack feel and feedback so it didn’t feel precise like a motorcycle gearbox should - at least to me.
The gear arm at the engine end was quite long, I drilled another hole in it about 15mm lower down and refitted the gear cable. This made the gearchange a bit more weighted, next I made a little extension arm on the paddle end.
This reduced the travel required to change gear, the two mods together have made a world of difference and it is now how I remember my old Fury being. If i find that it’s too heavy after a full stint driving in anger I may play around with the length at the engine end again but it definitely needed the mod at the paddles.
Also got all the bits to do a full service on it, got a new set of A048s which I dropped off with the wheels to be fitted once the dry wheels are re powder coated. There’s other things not car related that I need to sort too, still not bought all my racewear etc... but getting there slowly.
Had a good chat with Colin who looks after the car and Vincent who owns the team, both top blokes, down to earth and have been very helpful - bit of a rarity in the motorsport world, well at least from what I remember from my karting days..!
Had a good look around and sit in this beast they are running this year - Praga R1T
Awesome thing, many intricate details to admire looking round it. Sitting in it was how I imagine a fighter jet cockpit to be. Although it actually fit quite well, more comfortable than my spire...! But much harder to get out of
When I got back I had a bit of a play with the car as I’ve not had much chance to work on it over Christmas. Fitted a new flat bottomed steering wheel, it’s reasonably comfortable now and my knees are no longer fouling the wheel and paddles etc.
Something that’s also been bugging me is the feel from the gearchange paddles. When I had my R1 engined fisher fury it was a lot more weighted with more feel. On the spire it was a bit floppy and the paddle came right back to the wheel.
Again no disrespect to the previous owners, no doubt it was their drivers personal preference again, but I don’t like controls to be too light because they can lack feel and feedback so it didn’t feel precise like a motorcycle gearbox should - at least to me.
The gear arm at the engine end was quite long, I drilled another hole in it about 15mm lower down and refitted the gear cable. This made the gearchange a bit more weighted, next I made a little extension arm on the paddle end.
This reduced the travel required to change gear, the two mods together have made a world of difference and it is now how I remember my old Fury being. If i find that it’s too heavy after a full stint driving in anger I may play around with the length at the engine end again but it definitely needed the mod at the paddles.
Also got all the bits to do a full service on it, got a new set of A048s which I dropped off with the wheels to be fitted once the dry wheels are re powder coated. There’s other things not car related that I need to sort too, still not bought all my racewear etc... but getting there slowly.
Edited by Yazza54 on Sunday 7th January 09:07
Edited by Yazza54 on Monday 8th January 08:06
spyder dryver said:
That must be the Praga that Tim drives.
Indeed, Tim and a couple of others. Vincent basically said that he wanted to see how some talented drivers from UK Club racing could fair against semi pro/pro drivers and it turns out, pretty well. Awesome opportunity for someone who otherwise probably would never have the chance in such a money driven sport.SoftwareSorcerer said:
Nice thread - following with some interest, since I'll be racing against you this year 
Looking forward to getting some track time!
Good stuff, have never driven an RGB car on track so certainly not expecting to set the world alight.. see how we go. I see you’ve had previous experience with an ADR? Looking forward to getting some track time!
I actually viewed the car you’ve bought and was very close to buying it, it’s a well campaigned and developed bit of kit. Are you doing any track days prior to your first race? I’m hoping to get out at Oulton next month.
Been doing some more bits today, finished the full service. Found the thing a bit of a pain in the arse to fill and set the level with it having a big oil cooler and different sump etc. Case of filling, cranking, filling again, cracked oil cooler hose off to bleed etc.. then just when I think I’ve got it somewhere near it drops again. Got there in the end just took a lot of topping up.
Took the mucky old OEM air filter out of the rilltech air box and fitted a K&N panel filter, mainly just because it’s washable.
Had some trouble with the reverse mechanism which is a quaife chain drive diff with reverse. The forward drive is a dog engagement and reverse is a synchro, but it’s a bit temperamental in the sense that it engages fine but can be a pain getting it to pop back out when disengaged. Lubed the whole set up and re adjusted all the cables which seemed to help and also made a support for the outer cable as it seemed to be bowing a bit when I was trying to disengage reverse which didn’t help. Did this with a M12 rose joint and some old ally plate my dad had lying around. Seems to help a bit.
New can made by Pipewerx to my dims, the old one was pretty knackered. This one is just under 2 inches longer and I’ve got a few different baffles to try. I bought a decent noise meter and it was showing 103-104db static with the louder baffle in and over revved it a bit so hopefully I’ll be OK on a 105db track day if not with the current baffle in, with the quiet one it should be ok... whether it passes the drive by that’s another thing!!! I guess I can always short shift..
Last thing - had the dry wheels refurbished and new medium compound A048s fitted.
Took the mucky old OEM air filter out of the rilltech air box and fitted a K&N panel filter, mainly just because it’s washable.
Had some trouble with the reverse mechanism which is a quaife chain drive diff with reverse. The forward drive is a dog engagement and reverse is a synchro, but it’s a bit temperamental in the sense that it engages fine but can be a pain getting it to pop back out when disengaged. Lubed the whole set up and re adjusted all the cables which seemed to help and also made a support for the outer cable as it seemed to be bowing a bit when I was trying to disengage reverse which didn’t help. Did this with a M12 rose joint and some old ally plate my dad had lying around. Seems to help a bit.
New can made by Pipewerx to my dims, the old one was pretty knackered. This one is just under 2 inches longer and I’ve got a few different baffles to try. I bought a decent noise meter and it was showing 103-104db static with the louder baffle in and over revved it a bit so hopefully I’ll be OK on a 105db track day if not with the current baffle in, with the quiet one it should be ok... whether it passes the drive by that’s another thing!!! I guess I can always short shift..
Last thing - had the dry wheels refurbished and new medium compound A048s fitted.
Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 27th January 20:33
Hi all apologies for the lack of updates - since I was going to be needing something to tow with I was idly browsing eBay and ended up buying a lightly damaged Land Rover FL2 Metropolis, so as well as doing bits on the car I've been busy getting that done ...
So back onto the car, it's now all good to go. Not done any particularly exciting jobs on it just prep... Had to get the fire extinguisher serviced, new isolator and extinguisher pull cables as the originals seized, and had to rebuild both front calipers. Found it had a leaking piston and on further inspection the pistons were pitted, so 8 pistons and seals later they're all good as new. Luckily there was a new set of front pads in one of the spares boxes too.
As for racing, I resigned myself to the fact I wouldn't be ready for Donington.. as it happened the event was called off due to the weather anyway after qualifying so I didn't miss much. Shame for those involved but it happens.
I have a TD booked in a few weeks to give the car a shakedown and I'll go from there. My intention is to be comfortable that the car will be reliable and it be a known quantity for my first race. I can handle having my arse kicked and it'll be a serious learning curve I'm sure, but what I can't be doing with is the car letting me down or problems arising on a race weekend that could've been easily sorted with some prior testing, hence not rushing into anything.
I'd like to say I'll be at Brands Hatch in April but I'm playing it by ear to some degree, I'm not hell bent on doing every round - more bothered about being properly prepared and enjoying myself along the way with a view to doing all rounds next year. The weather has been that poor combined with me being so busy that I'm no where near as progressed as I hoped to be in the sense of having some track time under my belt by now. If I don't do brands I'll definitely enter Croft in May.
So back onto the car, it's now all good to go. Not done any particularly exciting jobs on it just prep... Had to get the fire extinguisher serviced, new isolator and extinguisher pull cables as the originals seized, and had to rebuild both front calipers. Found it had a leaking piston and on further inspection the pistons were pitted, so 8 pistons and seals later they're all good as new. Luckily there was a new set of front pads in one of the spares boxes too.
As for racing, I resigned myself to the fact I wouldn't be ready for Donington.. as it happened the event was called off due to the weather anyway after qualifying so I didn't miss much. Shame for those involved but it happens.
I have a TD booked in a few weeks to give the car a shakedown and I'll go from there. My intention is to be comfortable that the car will be reliable and it be a known quantity for my first race. I can handle having my arse kicked and it'll be a serious learning curve I'm sure, but what I can't be doing with is the car letting me down or problems arising on a race weekend that could've been easily sorted with some prior testing, hence not rushing into anything.
I'd like to say I'll be at Brands Hatch in April but I'm playing it by ear to some degree, I'm not hell bent on doing every round - more bothered about being properly prepared and enjoying myself along the way with a view to doing all rounds next year. The weather has been that poor combined with me being so busy that I'm no where near as progressed as I hoped to be in the sense of having some track time under my belt by now. If I don't do brands I'll definitely enter Croft in May.
Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 27th March 18:33
Had my first TD and happy to report the car behaved and I felt pretty comfortable in it in the end. The car was displaying some odd handling characteristics mainly in the form of snap oversteer but I managed to make a few changes to remedy that. Plus I went out with tyre pressures too high initially but that wasn't the cause of the jekyll and Hyde handling.
After tinkering I got out again still on the A048s and it started to rain, I stayed out and even with a fully damp track the car felt much better and nearer neutral. After that it subsequently pissed down - didn't do anything but disconnect the rear ARB and fit the wet tyres and it drove really well. Dead pleased with it, nothing came by me and I learned a lot while I was out there snaking about. It was properly slippy but manageable just trying to keep it smooth, video below - pretty pleased for a first drive
https://youtu.be/2AIFnNoLbeA
After tinkering I got out again still on the A048s and it started to rain, I stayed out and even with a fully damp track the car felt much better and nearer neutral. After that it subsequently pissed down - didn't do anything but disconnect the rear ARB and fit the wet tyres and it drove really well. Dead pleased with it, nothing came by me and I learned a lot while I was out there snaking about. It was properly slippy but manageable just trying to keep it smooth, video below - pretty pleased for a first drive
https://youtu.be/2AIFnNoLbeA
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 18th April 06:11
Forgot to mention that it also passed the noise test no bother at all with it's new can. Not wanting any hassle I just threw the most restrictive/quietest baffle in and also some additional coarse foam in the airbox and to my surprise in was only 93db static!! He did test me a little lower than he should've on the RPMs but it was always the drive by noise I was more worried about - under load the car is still fairly loud and my dad said he could hear it all round the track but thankfully no meters pinged.
Be interesting to see if it feels any livelier with those bits removed as the noise won't be an issue on a race weekend. The exhaust bung was a definite restriction as the tailpipe looks like it's been getting pretty hot and has damaged the paint all round the opening - but at least it did it's job!
My plan now is to speak to someone who can go through the full setup with me and give me a base to work with and corner weight the car etc as I suspect it's still not fully setup correctly. I'm going to enter Croft for the end of May giving me some time to get it fully setup and good to go.
Be interesting to see if it feels any livelier with those bits removed as the noise won't be an issue on a race weekend. The exhaust bung was a definite restriction as the tailpipe looks like it's been getting pretty hot and has damaged the paint all round the opening - but at least it did it's job!
My plan now is to speak to someone who can go through the full setup with me and give me a base to work with and corner weight the car etc as I suspect it's still not fully setup correctly. I'm going to enter Croft for the end of May giving me some time to get it fully setup and good to go.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 18th April 06:30
JonChalk said:
Sounds cracking on the video.
How many gears has it got? It sounded to me like almost flat in 6th (in the wet! Top man!) - if no 7th, are you going to be rev-limited in the dry?
I was flat in 6th in various places the gear indicator was definitely playing up though must need calibrating. Don't forget I can change front and rear sprockets with it being chain driven.How many gears has it got? It sounded to me like almost flat in 6th (in the wet! Top man!) - if no 7th, are you going to be rev-limited in the dry?
Update - so as can be seen in the pics I'm not really sat low enough in the car
I've pulled the GRP seat out and am going to have a go at making an expanding foam seat to allow me to effectively sit on the floor of the car. I checked yesterday and this has gained me about 40mm which means my helmet is now comfortably below the roll bar for scruitineering.
I'm taking the car to procomp Motorsport for setup/geometry in a couple of weeks so need my new seat in position by then so the car can be cornerweighted.
Other jobs include a new chain as I'm not sure how old it is, and get the car all stickered up... Then generally have a good check through everything. Probably change the oil and filter again too.
Have now entered the round at Croft on 26th & 27th May as well as the test day on the 25th ... So it's all go!
I've pulled the GRP seat out and am going to have a go at making an expanding foam seat to allow me to effectively sit on the floor of the car. I checked yesterday and this has gained me about 40mm which means my helmet is now comfortably below the roll bar for scruitineering.
I'm taking the car to procomp Motorsport for setup/geometry in a couple of weeks so need my new seat in position by then so the car can be cornerweighted.
Other jobs include a new chain as I'm not sure how old it is, and get the car all stickered up... Then generally have a good check through everything. Probably change the oil and filter again too.
Have now entered the round at Croft on 26th & 27th May as well as the test day on the 25th ... So it's all go!
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