Single Seaters £10k per Season
Discussion
I’ve searched and sifted and read a wealth of threads on this subject, but some of them aren’t so relevant to me and many of them are quite old / out of date by now.
Some of you might remember that I was asking questions about single seaters this time last year. I chickened out and went Caterham racing again in the end because I felt that my running budget (excluding car purchase cost) of around £10k per season was probably not enough to run competitively in Formula Fords.
Enjoyed another great season in the Caterham Graduates Racing Club, sold the car and now I’m back where I started. I still want to learn how to build, set up and drive single seaters.
Now carless I intend to spend this season having a dabble in this and that to figure out where I want to compete in future.
I want to race single seaters in a potentially race winning car. I don’t want to give myself excuses before I’ve even started. I’m scared of buying because I have no technical knowledge of the cars. How do I know what sort of dampers I need, a good chassis / engine / gearbox from bad etc etc. I am used to Caterhams which have a controlled spec and can be bought and sold for a nominal sum and are therefore to an extent cost neutral. If I buy the wrong single seater I feel like it’d ruin me!
Pointers?
Bertbert championed HSCC FF2000. The problem is the cars aren’t as cheap as they were several years ago. You need slicks and wets which are more than £700 a set? Plus I spoke to the chap who won the championship at Croft last year and he told me that he’d spent a sum on his engine that normal people might spend on a new family hatchback. A Pinto!
I always liked Historic (pre-72) FF1600 perhaps HSCC again but the cars are expensive now, especially the Merlyn Mk20 which I keep being told is ‘the one to have’. They’re all very shiny and they’re all more than £30k. I don’t care about shiny. I’m not likely to keep it that shiny. Tyres are £700 a set again although I realise you don’t go through many. I like the idea of the Kent engine but I’m not looking forward to the day I’m looking at a £5k invoice for a new one.
Classic Formula Ford. I swear you could buy one for £5-8k a few years ago? I do like them though. Results are a bit gappy- Whole seconds separating drivers’ lap times? Same engine situation as historic FF.
Other Formula Ford. I know even less about post ’82 Formula Fords than pre ’82. The look a bit of a faff to set up with inboard suspension etc? I know a guy who had a go in BRSCC in a Zetec car which’d been converted to Kent. He went well in Caterhams but was coming 20th there. I understand that there are a lot of talented drivers in FFs but I can’t help thinking there was more to it. Competition is possibly a bit serious / professional? I’ll have to ask him. I like the character of the older cars more. Same kent engine situation.
Formula Vee. They look like fun and I would quite like a go but I’m not going to learn anything about setting up single seaters. They don’t look very ‘racey’ to drive, gear ratios, gear change, engine etc. Engines cheaper than a Kent to put together but more delicate?
Monoposto and many others- results are very spread out. Either too few competitors or big chequebooks up front?
As you can see I’m all about cost so any series where I will be competing with people like me who don’t have support mechanics, don’t test every Friday etc- suggestions welcomed. I’m going to have an arrive and drive race weekend in one or more of these classes this season plus maybe a go in Club100 and hopefully a go in Dad’s Formula Junior.
Some of you might remember that I was asking questions about single seaters this time last year. I chickened out and went Caterham racing again in the end because I felt that my running budget (excluding car purchase cost) of around £10k per season was probably not enough to run competitively in Formula Fords.
Enjoyed another great season in the Caterham Graduates Racing Club, sold the car and now I’m back where I started. I still want to learn how to build, set up and drive single seaters.
Now carless I intend to spend this season having a dabble in this and that to figure out where I want to compete in future.
I want to race single seaters in a potentially race winning car. I don’t want to give myself excuses before I’ve even started. I’m scared of buying because I have no technical knowledge of the cars. How do I know what sort of dampers I need, a good chassis / engine / gearbox from bad etc etc. I am used to Caterhams which have a controlled spec and can be bought and sold for a nominal sum and are therefore to an extent cost neutral. If I buy the wrong single seater I feel like it’d ruin me!
Pointers?
Bertbert championed HSCC FF2000. The problem is the cars aren’t as cheap as they were several years ago. You need slicks and wets which are more than £700 a set? Plus I spoke to the chap who won the championship at Croft last year and he told me that he’d spent a sum on his engine that normal people might spend on a new family hatchback. A Pinto!
I always liked Historic (pre-72) FF1600 perhaps HSCC again but the cars are expensive now, especially the Merlyn Mk20 which I keep being told is ‘the one to have’. They’re all very shiny and they’re all more than £30k. I don’t care about shiny. I’m not likely to keep it that shiny. Tyres are £700 a set again although I realise you don’t go through many. I like the idea of the Kent engine but I’m not looking forward to the day I’m looking at a £5k invoice for a new one.
Classic Formula Ford. I swear you could buy one for £5-8k a few years ago? I do like them though. Results are a bit gappy- Whole seconds separating drivers’ lap times? Same engine situation as historic FF.
Other Formula Ford. I know even less about post ’82 Formula Fords than pre ’82. The look a bit of a faff to set up with inboard suspension etc? I know a guy who had a go in BRSCC in a Zetec car which’d been converted to Kent. He went well in Caterhams but was coming 20th there. I understand that there are a lot of talented drivers in FFs but I can’t help thinking there was more to it. Competition is possibly a bit serious / professional? I’ll have to ask him. I like the character of the older cars more. Same kent engine situation.
Formula Vee. They look like fun and I would quite like a go but I’m not going to learn anything about setting up single seaters. They don’t look very ‘racey’ to drive, gear ratios, gear change, engine etc. Engines cheaper than a Kent to put together but more delicate?
Monoposto and many others- results are very spread out. Either too few competitors or big chequebooks up front?
As you can see I’m all about cost so any series where I will be competing with people like me who don’t have support mechanics, don’t test every Friday etc- suggestions welcomed. I’m going to have an arrive and drive race weekend in one or more of these classes this season plus maybe a go in Club100 and hopefully a go in Dad’s Formula Junior.
andrewcliffe thanks very much for that detailed breakdown. I’ll have another look at Mono.
I know that the best driver doesn’t need the best car to win and I won’t be winning anything even if I do get the best car. I want a car which is competitive in class for two reasons; firstly ease of resell and secondly so that I don’t have any excuses from the off.
I don’t need to be going really fast either hence my search centering mainly around 1600 Kent classes.
Been looking at BRSCC pre-90 recently, looks like you want a ‘87- Van Diemen, Reynard or possibly Swift fo that?
I know that the best driver doesn’t need the best car to win and I won’t be winning anything even if I do get the best car. I want a car which is competitive in class for two reasons; firstly ease of resell and secondly so that I don’t have any excuses from the off.
I don’t need to be going really fast either hence my search centering mainly around 1600 Kent classes.
Been looking at BRSCC pre-90 recently, looks like you want a ‘87- Van Diemen, Reynard or possibly Swift fo that?
andrewcliffe said:
Yes, tyres is often the biggest expense, but for a lot of drivers is the easiest way of gaining a chunk of lap time, and then everyone is sucked into having to have new tyres at each meeting.
I think I need to be in a series which uses the same tyre in all conditions really. ACB9s or ACB10s are more my bag. Can't be doing two grand on tyres. The Hoosier tyres on the Formula Vees look like fun but a top formula vee is encroaching on 1980s FF1600 money.
I've made an enquiry on a late 80s Van Diemen 1600...
It's a shame the RF81 FF2000 isn't allowed in the HSCC, there's what would appear to be a nice one available for reasonable money. That's a car which'd run in Mono. Suppose it wouldn't be competitive among more modern 2000s though.
There are some very bad influences in here!
Outright performance is not important to me, I'm used to doing ~1:39s around Cadwell- any single seater is going to be a step up.
My main consideration alongside budget is as follows:
Are there close, competitive and well-attended grids where I can realistically aspire to run at the front without assistance and without excessive chequebook action (Ignoring the talent variable which I know is the biggest one of all)
I am coming from Caterhams where I have been spoiled with races where the top 10 drivers are lapping within a second of one another and the top 4 or 5 are generally separated by a few seconds at the end of a 20 minute race.
Outright performance is not important to me, I'm used to doing ~1:39s around Cadwell- any single seater is going to be a step up.
My main consideration alongside budget is as follows:
Are there close, competitive and well-attended grids where I can realistically aspire to run at the front without assistance and without excessive chequebook action (Ignoring the talent variable which I know is the biggest one of all)
I am coming from Caterhams where I have been spoiled with races where the top 10 drivers are lapping within a second of one another and the top 4 or 5 are generally separated by a few seconds at the end of a 20 minute race.
I think I can rule out the F3, FR options plus the Jedi, the cars may be ballistic but this newer, more complicated stuff really doesn’t play to my strengths plus I prefer the idea of historic or classic cars.
It’s looking increasingly as though Dad is going to be basically doing a full season in the HSCC with his Formula Junior so this is pulling me towards the HSCC, the grids are established and well supported so hopefully there will always be interest in the cars.
Clubmans make a lot of sense but I really want to try my hand at the archetypal single seater.
I had done all my homework on FF1600 but FF2000 is starting to appeal to me more than before, Running an ’82 or ’83 car in URS is another option but I’m wary that the cars could become less desirable overnight if URS ceases for whatever reason. Same can be said for any championship I suppose…
It’s looking increasingly as though Dad is going to be basically doing a full season in the HSCC with his Formula Junior so this is pulling me towards the HSCC, the grids are established and well supported so hopefully there will always be interest in the cars.
Clubmans make a lot of sense but I really want to try my hand at the archetypal single seater.
I had done all my homework on FF1600 but FF2000 is starting to appeal to me more than before, Running an ’82 or ’83 car in URS is another option but I’m wary that the cars could become less desirable overnight if URS ceases for whatever reason. Same can be said for any championship I suppose…
Thanks to all contributors
I didn't manage to buy a car for this season in the end. Nothing jumped out at me and in any case the best cars rarely get advertised anyway.
I'm going to go to some race weekends and try to have a go in some cars. Dad and I are running the Junior for the first time in a couple of weeks so that'll be my first go in a single seater. Hopefully it'll put me off them for good
I've considered cars ranging from £8k to 30k... so long as there is a decent championship for the car the values are solid and that's fine- I would hope that I could buy an average to good car and improve / maintain it myself and sell it for around the same money without too much delay. My difficulty comes from the risk of inadvertently buying a bad car and then need to spend thousands with specialists putting it right (as I don't yet have the expertise), or even buying an OK car and then encountering an unlucky failure (major gearbox, terminal engine etc).
I hope I'll be much more decisive once I've talked to some people and seen some cars run.
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
Special thanks to Bertbert for talking FF2000 with me on the phone
I didn't manage to buy a car for this season in the end. Nothing jumped out at me and in any case the best cars rarely get advertised anyway.
I'm going to go to some race weekends and try to have a go in some cars. Dad and I are running the Junior for the first time in a couple of weeks so that'll be my first go in a single seater. Hopefully it'll put me off them for good
I've considered cars ranging from £8k to 30k... so long as there is a decent championship for the car the values are solid and that's fine- I would hope that I could buy an average to good car and improve / maintain it myself and sell it for around the same money without too much delay. My difficulty comes from the risk of inadvertently buying a bad car and then need to spend thousands with specialists putting it right (as I don't yet have the expertise), or even buying an OK car and then encountering an unlucky failure (major gearbox, terminal engine etc).
I hope I'll be much more decisive once I've talked to some people and seen some cars run.
I do need to sit in cars too because at 6' and 13 stone there are certainly some cars I won't fit in. The Lotus 22 was... an experience!
Special thanks to Bertbert for talking FF2000 with me on the phone
RLCCM said:
I personally have just gone through a very similar question to you. I wanted to get into formula racing and not spend the earth.
After much research I've actually bought into Formula Vee, and hopefully will make it to the first race weekend at Castle Combe in a few weeks time for my very first race! Assuming all my other kit and race license are sorted by then, though will be going in a bit blind without any test day, so it will be a very steep learning curve!
Did you make it to Combe RLCCM? After much research I've actually bought into Formula Vee, and hopefully will make it to the first race weekend at Castle Combe in a few weeks time for my very first race! Assuming all my other kit and race license are sorted by then, though will be going in a bit blind without any test day, so it will be a very steep learning curve!
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