Getting *out* of motorsport

[ChevronB19]

Anyone done it?

I’ve raced for 28 years, am still ‘young’ (48), and I still love it, but I race in historics, and at least partly due to the goodwood phenomenon it’s got massively expensive, and a lot of the (often talented) amateur drivers couldn’t care less what the car is etc.

Crowning glory a few years ago was ‘mechanics aren’t allowed in the hospitality tent’. For starters, I’m sorry you don’t want the great unwashed who actually run the cars involved, secondly I’m paying for the hospitality as a condition of entry even though I don’t want to, and thirdly, in our (sub)series, the drivers usually *were* the mechanics.

I’m hacked off. In the 80’s people with D Types etc would stay at the circuit in a tent. Now it’s all 200k motor homes and paying a team to run you. I was introduced to motorsport by my dad, he ran in formula junior at the front end in the mid 80’s on a council technicians salary. Impossible now. A bit like what happened to stage rallying in the 80’s.

So, rant over. I’m seriously considering selling my race car and changing to a ‘<very> fast road spec classic such as a Ginetta g15 instead.

Did you give up racing and what did you do instead? Please don’t say golf, if that’s the only option I’m selling the house and buying a Maserati birdcage.

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keirik said:

Why not try something different? Hill climbing (proper hill climbing not the "look how rich I am" Goodwood version) is still a bunch of people helping each other out and muddling through, but still ultra competitive

Yes, I’m thinking of that with a change to something a bit less highly strung. I go to Barbon every year, Harewood occasionally as a spectator. Obviously at the front end it’s still expensive, I’d be happy middle placed in a middle class. Or for that matter just being there to be honest. At our races now I spend all my time wandering around the paddock looking at the cars rather than watching the actual racing. The only race I watch is from the drivers seat, which is a bit sad to be honest.

I’m lucky in that with the HSCC it still is largely people helping each other out, there’s an amazing fount of knowledge and enthusiasm, but it’s diminishing rapidly. Someone once asked me for a fiver just to borrow a hammer which I’d forgotten. On the other hand we’ve had people happily do some serious engine and bodywork for no reward (although we’ve bought them a truckload of beer as thanks anyway). I’d happily lend any tool, even though some have gone awol just in the heat of the moment.

I have a friend who does trials as well, I’ve been a bouncer a few times and it’s good fun. I’m just a bit p’d off that it’s becoming a bit ‘we don’t like normal people so we’re going to price you out’

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Veesix75 said:

I race in 70’s roadsports, I’m assuming from your post name you race in guards or similar ? 70’s is friendly, competitive all the way thru the grid, good events and track time, and you don’t need to break the bank account to get on grid in the first place if a mid field class win is good enough for you. I race in the invitation class, but irrespective have been welcomed by everyone, it really is a great series and a great bunch of people.

Hi! I race in HRSR in an Anglia (the username is a dream!). I have raced in guards in a Cannon GT. 70’s road sports is very appealing, I’m thinking 924 (I think a few years ago a guy won the class in a 924 bought off eBay the week before for about a grand), but a G15 really appeals to me. I’m more into the car rather than it’s ability to win.

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Veesix75 said:

And here I am dreaming about racing an Anglia . A Porsche 924 won class D of the 70’s last year, up to 2 litre class, and is a great option. Class D has some good battles in midfield. There are still a couple of 924’s again this year, Alfa 105 coupes, odd lancia etc. I run an Alfasud Sprint and tend to be racing against the class D guys at most events. I overflowed into your grid at Cadwell last year when the 70’s grid was over subscribed.

I really enjoy the 70’s, all down to earth and friendly, and the circuits/events that the hscc gets each year are very good I think. I am a club racer on a tight budget and do almost all the maintenance on the drive at home, help on the day is my pensioner dad.

If you had asked me for a hammer, then not only would it have been free, we’d have also come over and hit whatever needed hammering for you.

Ctcrc and cscc are good options also, but I found I was a bit underpowered with a 1500cc in most of their series.

Edited by Veesix75 on Monday 24th June 22:24

Same. My pensioner dad (now 80) is still racing his Anglia 100e with HSCC. I started in that car, raced that and many others, before finally buying my own 105e, but I’m having terrible luck with it at the moment! I love the mix of cars in the HSCC, and the people, I just don’t like the gradual increase towards ‘professional’.

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BertBert said:

ChevronB19 said:

I’m hacked off.

To clarify, is it the 'Goodwood scene' you are hacked off with, or the wider club scene such as the HSCC?
Bert

Hey BertBert, no, not the HSCC, although it is getting a lot of pay drivers now, I was more referring to A.N. Other series which will remain nameless (not Goodwood).

I love the HSCC and have been going to their meetings since 1983!

But hey, we live in a world where in race cars direct today there is an air jack advertised as ‘for the clubman competitor’ priced at 2.5k plus VAT!

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BertBert said:

That's what I was thinking as I didn't recognise it in the hscc. But I guess the prices of anything retro are sky high at the moment.

You weren't out at Cadwell last weekend were you? Bit of a messy weekend. But at least we didn't have an ff1600 upside down on fire like last year!

Bert

Cadwell was a disaster for me! Holed piston in qualifying, argh. Currently in the middle of stripping the engine!

Worst I’ve seen in HSCC is some of the super tourers using barriers to keep people out of pit garages. Not something I approve of!

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BertBert said:

ChevronB19 said:

Cadwell was a disaster for me! Holed piston in qualifying, argh. Currently in the middle of stripping the engine!

Worst I’ve seen in HSCC is some of the super tourers using barriers to keep people out of pit garages. Not something I approve of!

It was a bit of a mare for me too, but at least my failures were inexpensive ones. Dodgy starter and broken gear linkage. I keep meaning to look you up as I love the look of the Anglia!

Ha, I took the head off tonight, and it turns out I’ve holed two pistons! Time to change from downdraft to sidedraft I think, swap a little bit of power for a lot more reliability!

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BertBert said:

I'd that overheating through rubbing lean then?

That’s what I’m thinking, yes. But advice from an extremely knowledgeable friend says the evidence in that case would be around the edge. His thought is that because the piston crowns are extremely thin it is creating hot spots. Can be resolved with a sandwiched head gasket, one of the few benefits from k series failures!

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Jerry Can said:

Rambling post, apologies, but as for the OP, drop down a class or race level and run it by yourself. I've been doing that for years.

No need for apologies! I do run the car myself (albeit with significant help from my dad). I’ve usually raced his car previously, it’s a car we’ve owned since 1971, I even was transported in it in a carrycot, so weve decided to stick with that car. I’ll sell my race car and buy a fun classic for fast road and gentle hill climb with 50% of the proceeds. The rest goes on the mortgage (how tragic is that!)

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Jon39 said:

ChevronB19 said:

I’m hacked off. In the 80’s people with D Types etc would stay at the circuit in a tent. Now it’s all 200k motor homes and paying a team to run you. I was introduced to motorsport by my dad, he ran in formula junior at the front end in the mid 80’s on a council technicians salary. Impossible now. A bit like what happened to stage rallying in the 80’s.

Have you considered the CTCRC series? Probably the closest to 'the old days' motor racing, in terms of costs and other aspects.
There is much less of the cheque book professionalism, when compared to HSCC, although this year, some HSCC cars have appeared. Not sure about their status, so they might have been guest entries, without being eligible for championship points.

Weirdly enough, we’ve had a load of CTCRC cars appear in HSCC (HRSR saloons) this year, cross pollination is great, met some fantastic people. I love club racing as it’s oeople helping each other out, my original point was a) the inevitable arms race, and b) people who have suddenly decided this is the ‘new Henley/Ascot’ etc, and do it despite not giving one toot about the cars and the heritage, it’s just the trendy thing to do.

Sorry, I’ve screwed up the quoting here, the last paragraph is from me, and the previous is (I think) from Jon

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coppice said:

Palmer isn't a demigod by my estimation , and nor is he in that of anybody I have met. but MSV have done, and are doing , an excellent job. I have been going to what are now MSV circuits since the late 60s and have no complaints . Oulton and Cadwell , which I know intimately , were tatty and run down until MSV acquired them ; both are now spotless and a vast improvement on the frequently litter strewn Croft . Catering is vastly improved , and having endured Silverstone's shambolic cafe in the Wing a couple of months ago, I know of what I speak (huge queues, crap food and ran out of bacon )

Donington was utterly on its arse - tragically so - and it is now recovering under MSV management .

I finds MSV 's customer care exemplary - a few years ago my mobility was very seriously impaired by a back problem and MSV's staff were extraordinarily helpful to me - unlike BARC , who were so fking useless it was probably actionable.

I have met JP once , very briefly and to say he was brisk was an understatement - but I judge him by his actions not by his renowned prickilness .

Nobody is forcing you to go, and I just wonder what halcyon past you have imagined for yourself ? I spend at least 20 days a year at race circuits , and 30 plus in last few years , but I do wonder how you have obtained such a jaundiced view when by your own admission , you don't even go to club races. Or Silverstone, Goodwood or (continues on page 27)

Edited by coppice on Tuesday 2nd July 19:16

I’ll have to defend Croft here, I was an instructor there for a while. It’s a wonderful circuit, and not unsurprisingly it’s the one I’m quickest at, but they’ve invested a massive amount of money in it, and spectator wise, it’s the best circuit in the country, with the one exception of Cadwell, so long as you get a space along Hall bends.

I’m a big fan of Croft as the only northern circuit. Malcolm Wilson recently bought Broughton Moor in Cumbria and has turned it into a test circuit. Trust me, if he got permission for racing ther it would be one of the best circuits in the world. I lived 1 mile away for years. It’s an ex MoD/US airforce base, elevation changes, the lot. The problem with northern circuits is for understandable reasons most racers live within a couple of hours of the main circuits. People would think we’re nuts for turning up at Snetterton or Brands having driven from Carlisle.

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pablo said:

BertBert said:

Jon39 said:

I did not know that.
Do the Goodwood Minis run to different Goodwood only rules?
I had assumed that HSCC specifications applied for the two annual Goodwood meetings.

There is a big difference between the performance of the front runner cars, in CTCRC and Goodwood, which of course translates into cost.

I assume that Goodwood race meetings are organised by the GRRC and they have their own series rules. In terms of eligibility I would expect it to be stricter than equivalent HSCC rules, probably only allowing FIA papered cars for example. However the main difference will be in the prestige of the event. Goodwood, invite only for the rich, rare and famous. HSCC any old person with a suitable car and an entry fee can have a go.

Money plays a part in HSCC, but driver talent wins out. Some completely self run, some driver and friend run, some low rent teams and that's about it.

There are a few more prestigious HSCC events which will attract more money as you'd expect.

Just look at FF2000, won for the last 100 years by Andrew Park. He drives mostly a long way all night to get there, his dad helps out, he doesn't test and trounces pretty much everyone. There are 3 or so other drivers who can get close, but no big terms or mega budgets.

I believe goodwood events are run by BARC, certainly the Members Meeting is. FIA, HTP or equivalents were necessary for all cars competing but scrutineering was no more rigorous than any other event, I had a friend in the Mini race this year who said it was a case of just entering as per any other race though I think he said it was at least double a regular BARC event which will put people off. He’s not rich or famous, he isn’t “invited”, he doesn’t bother the top ten, he’s just built up an FIA eligible Mini over time and now does the odd race each year, Silverstone Classic, Oulton Gold Cup etc.

OP here. Surprised at that, we’ve been invited to the revival 5 times and the MM once (all in the same car, a 100e). We’re not rich, rare or famous (maybe rare as the only race 100e before about 2010). It’s certainly been the case of being invited, it’s definitely not like a normal race where entries open, everyone enters and it’s first come first served. Maybe the mini race was a bit different as a one off?

Edited by ChevronB19 on Wednesday 17th July 23:23