g50 reverse gear adjustment ?
Discussion
Hi folks,
I am working on my new gear selector mechanism with no good results so quite disappointed
, so far only little improvement over the factory setup, mainly because the selection of the reverse gear is requiring immense force. I wonder if there is any adjustment for that in the box. I assume there is a srping involved that is mainly there to avoid accidentially putting the reverse when selecting first coming from second.
My main target was to put the gears closes together for more precision but that is inherently increasing the force which is now making it almost impossible to select reverse gear.
So if anybody knows how to reduce the resistance presented when selecting reverse that would make my day
I am working on my new gear selector mechanism with no good results so quite disappointed
, so far only little improvement over the factory setup, mainly because the selection of the reverse gear is requiring immense force. I wonder if there is any adjustment for that in the box. I assume there is a srping involved that is mainly there to avoid accidentially putting the reverse when selecting first coming from second. My main target was to put the gears closes together for more precision but that is inherently increasing the force which is now making it almost impossible to select reverse gear.
So if anybody knows how to reduce the resistance presented when selecting reverse that would make my day
ok have called a G50 guru and he tells me that in the box is a ball that is pressing with a spring on the reverse selector and it requires approx 6 hours to make this easier.......so not really an option if I take in consideration that I have to remove the box from the car and, and, and......
Probably the next thing I will try is to use a spring that is helping to select the reverse with the additional problem that all the other gears would require more force than before....I am stuck
Probably the next thing I will try is to use a spring that is helping to select the reverse with the additional problem that all the other gears would require more force than before....I am stuck
actually it is quite hard to get the box in reverse even if you do it right at the box with the lever you have seen in the pics.
I am aware that if I increase the travel at the back that I need less force, but then you are running in the problem that you cannot find the fith anymore....?
I am thinking about putting a spring that will help with the reverse and increase force for the other gears, not a big deal so worth a try.
I am aware that if I increase the travel at the back that I need less force, but then you are running in the problem that you cannot find the fith anymore....?
I am thinking about putting a spring that will help with the reverse and increase force for the other gears, not a big deal so worth a try.
OK GUYS - TERRIFIC NEWS ! IT WORKS !
Yesterday I worked again on my gear selector and I decided to use more of the lever so force is less, that was the whole idea from scratch anyway, get rid of all the play and stress on the G50 rod that you have with the factory setup.
Although I had mud on the streets I went for a drive since I was so excited and believe it or not I accidentially went from second in fifth 3 times, and before that the fifth gear was very difficult to find.
Reverse gear is now very precise you can feel the detent and with the longer lever position it is now not too difficult to engage. Actually if you go one more position down in the setup it should be even easier.
As you can see I tried to develop this is a retrofit, there might be a even better solution if you weld a piece at the gearbox support so you can run both rods in the same height. I am pretty sure you can fit this to any ultima that has a G50 no matter if it is center or right shift.
I will make a video when the wheather allows it so you can judge by yourself.
If there is an interest I can have a few sets made of these parts, the aluminium is very strong lightweight almg5 with 450N/mm2 and the rod is stainless steel.
The levers are running in special bearings to there is virtually no friction for the rotational movement of the G50 rod.
FINAL AND WORKING SETUP
Yesterday I worked again on my gear selector and I decided to use more of the lever so force is less, that was the whole idea from scratch anyway, get rid of all the play and stress on the G50 rod that you have with the factory setup.
Although I had mud on the streets I went for a drive since I was so excited and believe it or not I accidentially went from second in fifth 3 times, and before that the fifth gear was very difficult to find.
Reverse gear is now very precise you can feel the detent and with the longer lever position it is now not too difficult to engage. Actually if you go one more position down in the setup it should be even easier.
As you can see I tried to develop this is a retrofit, there might be a even better solution if you weld a piece at the gearbox support so you can run both rods in the same height. I am pretty sure you can fit this to any ultima that has a G50 no matter if it is center or right shift.
I will make a video when the wheather allows it so you can judge by yourself.
If there is an interest I can have a few sets made of these parts, the aluminium is very strong lightweight almg5 with 450N/mm2 and the rod is stainless steel.
The levers are running in special bearings to there is virtually no friction for the rotational movement of the G50 rod.
FINAL AND WORKING SETUP
crafty said:
I suspect that problems with the reverse gear selection must be due to the rod setup...... it works fine in a Porsche... in a Porsche its pretty much a straight shaft.
Mine is a side shift car - I was careful to make sure all the joints were in the same orientation. Mine has always shifted very nicely.
Jeff's is a centre shift car, he was having problems with his shift and after comparing setups it seemed his alignment wasnt quite right at the last joint on the box. After adjusting the alignment it was a significant improvement.
Is everyone on here experiencing problems using centre shift setups?
Uwe - do you have any pics of your box with the standard setup?
here a picture of my original setupMine is a side shift car - I was careful to make sure all the joints were in the same orientation. Mine has always shifted very nicely.
Jeff's is a centre shift car, he was having problems with his shift and after comparing setups it seemed his alignment wasnt quite right at the last joint on the box. After adjusting the alignment it was a significant improvement.
Is everyone on here experiencing problems using centre shift setups?
Uwe - do you have any pics of your box with the standard setup?
yes crafty you got the weak points in the system, however it is was designed to be a retrofit not requiring any changes on the car.
If you weld the support rail for the 2 ball heads to the gear box support and increase the distance between the 2 of them even better.
In my case if would have required to remove part of the gear linkage and shorten it and I was too lazy to do that.
One thing to consider is that it would in my case create a steeper angle that is probably introducing new problems.
However these 2 ball heads only need to take very little stress and keep the rod in parallel to the gear box rod. Good greasing is helping !
If you do extent the fixing points and use a longer rail it would be smart to run the linkage rod in the same height as the gear box rod
and then you would have made it 100%. If I ever have to work on the linkage again I probably will do that. If however the next few 1000 kilometers are
ok why should I ?
The whole support for the 2 ball heads is attaced to the gearbox support M12 rod so not one at the chassis and one at box.
It is most unlikely that the gear box will pull the gear out when moving as the whole gear linkage will move with the box.
Yes I have been driving the car with this setup on a muddy road which required a lot of cleaning afterwards.
Bottom line, this not so perfect arrangement has turned out very driveable, as mentioned before accidentially selected 5th for 3 times, which has
been a different story with the factory setup.
BTW the single bolt is M12 rod for the gear box support and if you tighten that up, that is quite solid.
In fact I am quite astonished that you could pinpoint the weak points looking at the setup, you are for sure a better mechanical engineer than me. I agree
this is not my field of expertise.
If you weld the support rail for the 2 ball heads to the gear box support and increase the distance between the 2 of them even better.
In my case if would have required to remove part of the gear linkage and shorten it and I was too lazy to do that.
One thing to consider is that it would in my case create a steeper angle that is probably introducing new problems.
However these 2 ball heads only need to take very little stress and keep the rod in parallel to the gear box rod. Good greasing is helping !
If you do extent the fixing points and use a longer rail it would be smart to run the linkage rod in the same height as the gear box rod
and then you would have made it 100%. If I ever have to work on the linkage again I probably will do that. If however the next few 1000 kilometers are
ok why should I ?
The whole support for the 2 ball heads is attaced to the gearbox support M12 rod so not one at the chassis and one at box.
It is most unlikely that the gear box will pull the gear out when moving as the whole gear linkage will move with the box.
Yes I have been driving the car with this setup on a muddy road which required a lot of cleaning afterwards.
Bottom line, this not so perfect arrangement has turned out very driveable, as mentioned before accidentially selected 5th for 3 times, which has
been a different story with the factory setup.
BTW the single bolt is M12 rod for the gear box support and if you tighten that up, that is quite solid.
In fact I am quite astonished that you could pinpoint the weak points looking at the setup, you are for sure a better mechanical engineer than me. I agree
this is not my field of expertise.
Edited by spatz on Sunday 27th February 13:23
not possible if you ask me think about it, if the gear box is moving,the rod can follow the movement, you can have a look at your gear lever in the front it will tell you how much foward movement and twisting there is, if there is any.
If the gear is under load is not very easy to pull out anyway.
the question is how much movement can there be ?, the gearbox is attached firmly to the engine and the ls7 mounts looked like really stiff rubber to me.
If the gear is under load is not very easy to pull out anyway.
the question is how much movement can there be ?, the gearbox is attached firmly to the engine and the ls7 mounts looked like really stiff rubber to me.
This setup introduces a few problems that mine does not have, both rods will see some stress when moving gear box rod forth and back, the longer the arms are the less problematic but not a good solution in my opinion. My forth and back movement are absolutely stress free and will not introduce any force to the gear box rod other than what necessary to move the rod. If true that the gear box movement will create problems then you only need to attach the rail with the 2 ball heads to the gear box housing but I doubt that this will be true.
The factory setup would have transported the gear box movement as well and I have never encountered a lever movement or even pulling out of gear. In the factoy setup the gear box if moving would move the complete linkage as well and it is quite heavy so if that is a problem it would be a problem with all cars that use the factory linkage.
The factory setup would have transported the gear box movement as well and I have never encountered a lever movement or even pulling out of gear. In the factoy setup the gear box if moving would move the complete linkage as well and it is quite heavy so if that is a problem it would be a problem with all cars that use the factory linkage.
YES you guessed it right, a very typical Ultima problem has occured, the rear clam was not fitting if the
arms go to the bottom direction. Since I now had to have them upright I decided the replace the aluminium rail by
somthing solid out of steel and do a little welding of this piece to the gear box holder.
This has now brought the rod almost in the same height as the gear box rod, and yes it works even better now.
I would say this is a major improvement of how the car feels when driving and worth any minute I spent on it.
arms go to the bottom direction. Since I now had to have them upright I decided the replace the aluminium rail by
somthing solid out of steel and do a little welding of this piece to the gear box holder.
This has now brought the rod almost in the same height as the gear box rod, and yes it works even better now.
I would say this is a major improvement of how the car feels when driving and worth any minute I spent on it.
The current pictured setup already allows changing the effective lever length and the shorter they get the more precise but more force necesseray.
In general the arm is working as a lever that is transforming the front movement of the gear stick.
I mainly was unhappy with the fact that in the factory setup the feeling is very wobbly and heavy.
This has all gone and now my wife can even select reverse gear ! Keeping in mind that it is still very cold and I have not been able to get the gear box
oil at temperature....maybe today I will have her out for a longer drive, wheather looking good !
In general the arm is working as a lever that is transforming the front movement of the gear stick.
I mainly was unhappy with the fact that in the factory setup the feeling is very wobbly and heavy.
This has all gone and now my wife can even select reverse gear ! Keeping in mind that it is still very cold and I have not been able to get the gear box
oil at temperature....maybe today I will have her out for a longer drive, wheather looking good !
sorry my answer was a little unprecise, Steve as usual is right, the whole idea of the many holes in the arms is
to make them adjustable to your personal preference. The factory setup is using some leverage with the drawback
that it is very wobbly and stressing the rod. MY setup as pictured is creating almost no additional leverage at the arm location
so effectively the travel at the gear stick has reduced and force increased compared to the factory setup.
However you can now really feel the detent of the reverse which I think makes it nicer and in effect the gear planes are now much closer together.
to make them adjustable to your personal preference. The factory setup is using some leverage with the drawback
that it is very wobbly and stressing the rod. MY setup as pictured is creating almost no additional leverage at the arm location
so effectively the travel at the gear stick has reduced and force increased compared to the factory setup.
However you can now really feel the detent of the reverse which I think makes it nicer and in effect the gear planes are now much closer together.
Edited by spatz on Friday 4th March 07:48
oh yes I have really tried the factory setup and it does not work for me.
The pivot points in my design have no play whatsoever and use proper bearings.
If you are ok with the factory setup no need to change, for me when I had this installed for the first time, I could hardly believe that
anybody can use it. I have also made changes to the front setup, see my build site if interested because initially I had the choice between
no reverse or no fifth gear................
Just came home from a 100miles spin, LOVELY !!!
The pivot points in my design have no play whatsoever and use proper bearings.
If you are ok with the factory setup no need to change, for me when I had this installed for the first time, I could hardly believe that
anybody can use it. I have also made changes to the front setup, see my build site if interested because initially I had the choice between
no reverse or no fifth gear................
Just came home from a 100miles spin, LOVELY !!!
Edited by spatz on Friday 4th March 15:48
Hi Graham, so my english produced another laugh........today wheather looking good again, I thing I need to do some mapping,
still having trouble with the engine not running perfectly at certain rpms when accelerating, in general lambda is telling me too lean, so will try to
increase injector time and see what the result is.
still having trouble with the engine not running perfectly at certain rpms when accelerating, in general lambda is telling me too lean, so will try to
increase injector time and see what the result is.
that looks a cool setup but hope you dont mind me asking a couple of questions..
The gearbox is rubber mounted and the shift system isnt, as the mounts soften will it effect gear changes?
I have seen an Ultima where the gearbox mounting cradle had cracked and broken... The rod you have welded your mounting to is very thin tubing... Will the additional forces you are putting through this long thin walled tube require a trianglation from the end of your welded plate to the chassis or down to the gearbox mount bolt... Only a thought because if it broke you would have no gearchange at all?
FROM SPATZ
Actually the holiding plate is welded to the tube of the gear box holder where the M12 thread is running through, very solid piece there, that will not crack by its own. And there is an additional M12 nut that holds the whole plate, the welding is mereley necessary so the plate cannot move up and down.
Since the arms and the entire gear linkage can move freely there is no stress on the gear box rod even if the box is moving.
The gearbox is rubber mounted and the shift system isnt, as the mounts soften will it effect gear changes?
I have seen an Ultima where the gearbox mounting cradle had cracked and broken... The rod you have welded your mounting to is very thin tubing... Will the additional forces you are putting through this long thin walled tube require a trianglation from the end of your welded plate to the chassis or down to the gearbox mount bolt... Only a thought because if it broke you would have no gearchange at all?
FROM SPATZ
Actually the holiding plate is welded to the tube of the gear box holder where the M12 thread is running through, very solid piece there, that will not crack by its own. And there is an additional M12 nut that holds the whole plate, the welding is mereley necessary so the plate cannot move up and down.
Since the arms and the entire gear linkage can move freely there is no stress on the gear box rod even if the box is moving.
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