Discussion
OK fellow hifi nerds, here's one for you.
Current setup -
Source: - Custom PC with lossless/hi-rez flac from the NAS, running WASAPI drivers from Jriver. And Kodi. Outputting USB, into..
DAC/Pre: BMC PureDAC (a truly stunning DAC for the money)
Amp: Krell 300i
Cables: Transparent Music Wave from 2003
Speakers: Sonus Faber Cremona
Very very happy with the sound. I've auditioned lots of combinations over many years of and just settled on the Krell / Transparent / Faber combo. (originally had a Meridian 596 feeding that).
Latest addition was the BMC because I was looking for a killer DAC - and nothing I've heard under 5k beats this.
But this means I don't really need my 300i. (a) it's decades old so there must be a good upgrade option available now; and (b) I don't like that I'm duplicating Pre-amp, I think I'd get an instant upgrade just utilising the BMC Pre rather than the Krell pre. Hence likely double whammy if I upgrade the the 300i to a pure power amp.
Question is which one.. I tried a few powers, including the matching BMC one - but don't know if I'm just getting old but the BMC power was better on some tracks and worse on others so net net I couldn't justify the uptick. I also tried this coupled with Tellurium cables, which again just felt a bit 'thinner' than my Transparents.
I think I probably would end up going back to Krell given my history, but there are a million and one Krells out there in a thousand different series. I'm looking second hand so I can't just 'go out and audition them all' - obviously - so I'm wondering if anyone has any experience and suggestions? The KSA100 MKII sounds like it might be worth a crack. Got about 2k to spank but might go to 3k if there's a good reason why. 1-1.5k ideal.
(I know KSA means Stero Amp; and KAV means Audio Visual; but the other ranges? KST? etc... no clue!)
So hit me with it!
Current setup -
Source: - Custom PC with lossless/hi-rez flac from the NAS, running WASAPI drivers from Jriver. And Kodi. Outputting USB, into..
DAC/Pre: BMC PureDAC (a truly stunning DAC for the money)
Amp: Krell 300i
Cables: Transparent Music Wave from 2003
Speakers: Sonus Faber Cremona
Very very happy with the sound. I've auditioned lots of combinations over many years of and just settled on the Krell / Transparent / Faber combo. (originally had a Meridian 596 feeding that).
Latest addition was the BMC because I was looking for a killer DAC - and nothing I've heard under 5k beats this.
But this means I don't really need my 300i. (a) it's decades old so there must be a good upgrade option available now; and (b) I don't like that I'm duplicating Pre-amp, I think I'd get an instant upgrade just utilising the BMC Pre rather than the Krell pre. Hence likely double whammy if I upgrade the the 300i to a pure power amp.
Question is which one.. I tried a few powers, including the matching BMC one - but don't know if I'm just getting old but the BMC power was better on some tracks and worse on others so net net I couldn't justify the uptick. I also tried this coupled with Tellurium cables, which again just felt a bit 'thinner' than my Transparents.
I think I probably would end up going back to Krell given my history, but there are a million and one Krells out there in a thousand different series. I'm looking second hand so I can't just 'go out and audition them all' - obviously - so I'm wondering if anyone has any experience and suggestions? The KSA100 MKII sounds like it might be worth a crack. Got about 2k to spank but might go to 3k if there's a good reason why. 1-1.5k ideal.
(I know KSA means Stero Amp; and KAV means Audio Visual; but the other ranges? KST? etc... no clue!)
So hit me with it!
Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 21st November 13:42
Nice answer, thanks!
The BMC pre is digital, but here's what a reviewer said about it vs tube: "I used my Rogue Audio 99 Super Magnum (tube) preamplifier most of the time, but I also used the line level preamp section of the PureDAC for a few days to get a sense of its sound or lack thereof. The end result is that the two preamps sounded amazingly similar with the Rogue being a touch warmer in the mid-range region."
The BMC is an outstanding bit of kit, punches well above its weight.
Yeah I think you're right, probably best to not go for the old ones - you never know how they've been driven / cap changes etc.
No FPB's around at the moment it seems... I did see a KAV2250 on ebay for around 1500 - that's a 2011 model if I'm not mistaken.....
The BMC pre is digital, but here's what a reviewer said about it vs tube: "I used my Rogue Audio 99 Super Magnum (tube) preamplifier most of the time, but I also used the line level preamp section of the PureDAC for a few days to get a sense of its sound or lack thereof. The end result is that the two preamps sounded amazingly similar with the Rogue being a touch warmer in the mid-range region."
The BMC is an outstanding bit of kit, punches well above its weight.
Yeah I think you're right, probably best to not go for the old ones - you never know how they've been driven / cap changes etc.
No FPB's around at the moment it seems... I did see a KAV2250 on ebay for around 1500 - that's a 2011 model if I'm not mistaken.....
Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 21st November 14:48
No it can't be split unfortunately, so I have this strange situation where I can control volume on both puredac and krell! I actually don't like that not for any reason other than it's just not neat. And my speaker cables are way too long (and also super fat bi-wired for my old Grand Pianos) so I might talk to Transparent about their upgrade programme and maybe get some shorter ones.
The 'why' is a bit of a story. I've salivated over Cremonas after listening to them when they were launched and I was itching for the time when they got to a decent used price. So when I saw a pair at target price at Choice hifi I talked to Alain there and said hey what can you suggest DAC wise? I've got all these flacs now and I want a decent DAC to finally realise my dream of convenient but proper hifi without walls full of CDs/DVDs. Thus came the puredac and cremonas. There's not much in my sound itself that I'm dis-satisfied with but when I went to pick up the speakers and dac the sound from the system he had set up in his front room.... wow... so he knew what I liked from that system and mine (when he came to help set them up with me). Alain knows his stuff - knows the 300i well and 'it's limitations'; waxed lyrical for a long time about history of specific amps/types of amps with my setup; doesn't understand the big deal about Transparent; said using only the BMC pre would be a noticeable improvement on the Krell pre which I can't bypass - so that got me thinking "well, the 300i is a bit old now, hailing from the 90s, amp technology has moved on a lot so maybe get 2 upgrades in one - better pre and more recent power just by buying one unit - who can say fairer than that?! And if ebay is right and a grand is market value for an old 300i then it could be pretty cheap to do as well.
ooo that would be nice of you re. FPB, thanks a lot! And the BMC has got balanced outputs too.. Ipswich is a bit of a drive from SW London but worth a Saturday
The 'why' is a bit of a story. I've salivated over Cremonas after listening to them when they were launched and I was itching for the time when they got to a decent used price. So when I saw a pair at target price at Choice hifi I talked to Alain there and said hey what can you suggest DAC wise? I've got all these flacs now and I want a decent DAC to finally realise my dream of convenient but proper hifi without walls full of CDs/DVDs. Thus came the puredac and cremonas. There's not much in my sound itself that I'm dis-satisfied with but when I went to pick up the speakers and dac the sound from the system he had set up in his front room.... wow... so he knew what I liked from that system and mine (when he came to help set them up with me). Alain knows his stuff - knows the 300i well and 'it's limitations'; waxed lyrical for a long time about history of specific amps/types of amps with my setup; doesn't understand the big deal about Transparent; said using only the BMC pre would be a noticeable improvement on the Krell pre which I can't bypass - so that got me thinking "well, the 300i is a bit old now, hailing from the 90s, amp technology has moved on a lot so maybe get 2 upgrades in one - better pre and more recent power just by buying one unit - who can say fairer than that?! And if ebay is right and a grand is market value for an old 300i then it could be pretty cheap to do as well.
ooo that would be nice of you re. FPB, thanks a lot! And the BMC has got balanced outputs too.. Ipswich is a bit of a drive from SW London but worth a Saturday
Cool, thanks!
Yeah wasn't clear - the 'moved on a lot' bit was more me than him, though he did say it had moved enough to warrant considering an upgrade. Most people say the 300i is the weak link now - even though tbh I still love the sound from it... But if I get the same and more from FPB then hell why not! Yeah I'll have to change to balanced cables but what they hey.
Amati... drool... *sigh* Choice have a pair right now for 12k... wonder if he'll take 3 and a smile?......
I asked about the 400 actually, seen a few on the shelves in a few places, but general consensus seemed to be 'nah don't bother, do a bigger step'
Yeah wasn't clear - the 'moved on a lot' bit was more me than him, though he did say it had moved enough to warrant considering an upgrade. Most people say the 300i is the weak link now - even though tbh I still love the sound from it... But if I get the same and more from FPB then hell why not! Yeah I'll have to change to balanced cables but what they hey.
Amati... drool... *sigh* Choice have a pair right now for 12k... wonder if he'll take 3 and a smile?......
I asked about the 400 actually, seen a few on the shelves in a few places, but general consensus seemed to be 'nah don't bother, do a bigger step'
Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 21st November 17:22
hmmm. those look interesting Crackle. My dilemma though is that if I broaden the net and start trying out lots of amps then I'm into many many weekends of auditioning; and considering how much auditioning it took to get me to my trusted combo I think the most practical thing to do is to stick with Krell.
Legz - Thanks for that. I could be in for that, especially if it's 'only' 2k uptick from mine. Do you know if it's the 300 or the 300c? (the 300c is very pretty!). Is that a decent price for one of these?
Legz - Thanks for that. I could be in for that, especially if it's 'only' 2k uptick from mine. Do you know if it's the 300 or the 300c? (the 300c is very pretty!). Is that a decent price for one of these?
Super, thanks.
To confuse, just had another chat with Choice - they have the BMC CS2 on sale (which is the big brother of the pureamp that I previously auditioned, which did some stuff better than the 300i but other stuff not quite as well so all in all not a slam dunk upgrade decision). He *really* doesn't want to sell it but that would be worth an audition too.
I did ask him if he'd take 3k for the Amatis, of course I got the expected laugh. I don't really have the room for them anyway :P
Confirmed with another local shop that they still to Transparent and also facilitate their upgrade program (get 70% back on stuff you upgrade) so I'm now very interested in that too - lol
To confuse, just had another chat with Choice - they have the BMC CS2 on sale (which is the big brother of the pureamp that I previously auditioned, which did some stuff better than the 300i but other stuff not quite as well so all in all not a slam dunk upgrade decision). He *really* doesn't want to sell it but that would be worth an audition too.
I did ask him if he'd take 3k for the Amatis, of course I got the expected laugh. I don't really have the room for them anyway :P
Confirmed with another local shop that they still to Transparent and also facilitate their upgrade program (get 70% back on stuff you upgrade) so I'm now very interested in that too - lol
yeah it is lol - but it's configurable so I can by-pass whatever as I need - so I can actually switch between the pre in the dac and the CS2 and see which one I like better! Could plug other stuff into either the dac or the amp; etc. I hope he decides to at least let me have a listen. I just wonder if it has the warmth I like or whether it's just super accurate and cold (maybe I can tune the warmth with the cables). The pureamp was pretty close to the 300i tbh so if the CS2 is head and shoulders above that then certainly an interesting listen at the very least... I think he'll let me know soon if he decides to keep it..
I'm not sure I buy that speakers are quite the vast majority of the quality train, only by my own experience, though I think they probably do make the biggest single difference. I think other components can make or break a sound. I started out thinking that cables were a load of old tosh, used some stuff I got at Woolworths. When I went to audition for the 300i I remember the chap said 'ok what about cables then?' and I laughed, being at the time a fully paid up member of the 'it's all just electrons' club; and 2 hours later I came out having spanked a over a grand on my transparents. Absolutely amazed at the difference between copper and silver etc.
Another interesting thing happened when we were there. I had brought along a copy of Madonna's Ray of Light that I'd bought for about 50p at the CD market in Moscow *cough* (let's just say it didn't have the little booklet in it like it should have); and chap said "Oh I'm glad you brought that in, I have a copy I bought from the shops here, I've heard you can tell the difference". "OK", says I, "I admit that I was wrong on cables but now that really IS taking the piss!! This is just 1s and 0s, the physics of making the CDs means it all has to be the same". We each did 7 blind comparison tests. Both of us guessed which CD was which on every occasion. Neither of us could quite believe it!
I think if there's one amp that might be a contender for me it'll be that CS2. The pureamp did a super job but was too much on par with 300i to warrant upgrade. And of course it's all matched nicely with the puredac. And I won't have to make a custom cabinet to fit it in!
Mr Shaw - lol, makes one remember Blackadder at the doctor's:
E: Look, am I paying for this personal abuse or is it extra?
D: No, it's all part of the service. I think you're in luck though. An
extraordinary new cure has just been developed for exactly this kind
of sordid problem.
E: It wouldn't have anything to do with leeches, would it?
D: I had no idea you were a medical man.
E: Never had anything you doctors didn't try to cure with leeches. A
leech on my ear for ear ache, a leech on my bottom for constipation.
D: They're marvellous, aren't they?
E: Well, the bottom one wasn't. I just sat there and squashed it.
D: You know the leech comes to us on the highest authority?
E: Yes. I know that. Dr. Hoffmann of Stuttgart, isn't it?
D: That's right, the great Hoffmann.
E: Owner of the largest leech farm in Europe.
Another interesting thing happened when we were there. I had brought along a copy of Madonna's Ray of Light that I'd bought for about 50p at the CD market in Moscow *cough* (let's just say it didn't have the little booklet in it like it should have); and chap said "Oh I'm glad you brought that in, I have a copy I bought from the shops here, I've heard you can tell the difference". "OK", says I, "I admit that I was wrong on cables but now that really IS taking the piss!! This is just 1s and 0s, the physics of making the CDs means it all has to be the same". We each did 7 blind comparison tests. Both of us guessed which CD was which on every occasion. Neither of us could quite believe it!
I think if there's one amp that might be a contender for me it'll be that CS2. The pureamp did a super job but was too much on par with 300i to warrant upgrade. And of course it's all matched nicely with the puredac. And I won't have to make a custom cabinet to fit it in!
Mr Shaw - lol, makes one remember Blackadder at the doctor's:
E: Look, am I paying for this personal abuse or is it extra?
D: No, it's all part of the service. I think you're in luck though. An
extraordinary new cure has just been developed for exactly this kind
of sordid problem.
E: It wouldn't have anything to do with leeches, would it?
D: I had no idea you were a medical man.
E: Never had anything you doctors didn't try to cure with leeches. A
leech on my ear for ear ache, a leech on my bottom for constipation.
D: They're marvellous, aren't they?
E: Well, the bottom one wasn't. I just sat there and squashed it.
D: You know the leech comes to us on the highest authority?
E: Yes. I know that. Dr. Hoffmann of Stuttgart, isn't it?
D: That's right, the great Hoffmann.
E: Owner of the largest leech farm in Europe.
Edited by Angrybiker on Friday 24th November 11:27
Edited by Angrybiker on Friday 24th November 12:22
No worries, it's all interesting stuff!
At this moment I'm rather hoping that the CS2 cuts my mustard. Assuming it's really up for sale. It's a neat solution; but failing that then the FPB gets a listen.
Interestingly I've also received council to steer away from FPB, on the basis that it was a good amp at the time but it's risky because if it goes wrong it goes wrong big time and v expensive to fix. That probably won't be the case for a cap refreshed model but still got me worried a bit.
At this moment I'm rather hoping that the CS2 cuts my mustard. Assuming it's really up for sale. It's a neat solution; but failing that then the FPB gets a listen.
Interestingly I've also received council to steer away from FPB, on the basis that it was a good amp at the time but it's risky because if it goes wrong it goes wrong big time and v expensive to fix. That probably won't be the case for a cap refreshed model but still got me worried a bit.
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