PC sound - bookshelves or desktop speakers?
Discussion
I'm looking to get some new PC speakers, mostly for gaming and a bit of background music. I'm not super serious about either of the above but would like a reasonable level of quality. I'm torn between three routes:
1. Whatever Logitech or similar are putting out at the price point as a desktop 2.1 setup.
2. Mini amp - Lepy 2024A or similar plus some bookshelf speakers, Q3020's or 3010's should be in budget.
3. Say 'bugger the sound, give me shiny,' and get some Razer Nommo Chroma RGB speakers that'll sync with my keyboard and make my desktop look like a psychedelic lightshow.
Am I going to notice a big jump up from something like a Logitech Z623 (or the Razers) by going the bookshelf route? Would I miss the sub if I went 2.0?
1. Whatever Logitech or similar are putting out at the price point as a desktop 2.1 setup.
2. Mini amp - Lepy 2024A or similar plus some bookshelf speakers, Q3020's or 3010's should be in budget.
3. Say 'bugger the sound, give me shiny,' and get some Razer Nommo Chroma RGB speakers that'll sync with my keyboard and make my desktop look like a psychedelic lightshow.
Am I going to notice a big jump up from something like a Logitech Z623 (or the Razers) by going the bookshelf route? Would I miss the sub if I went 2.0?
tomsugden said:
I've got some of these
https://www.harmankardon.co.uk/computer-speakers/S...
They look good and also the sound is very good. The Apple shop was charging over £200 for the same speakers when I bought mine.
That's a pretty good shout, if I go the desktop speaker route I think that's the front runner.https://www.harmankardon.co.uk/computer-speakers/S...
They look good and also the sound is very good. The Apple shop was charging over £200 for the same speakers when I bought mine.
GravelBen said:
Active bookshelf speakers are another option, but might be hard to find something good in your price range.
I think you're right on that front, just over budget are the Wharefdale DS2's which I can't find much info on - but being Wharefdale they're likely to be solid speakers.I am still drawn to the bookshelf idea. And the option to pick up a cheap sub (Yamaha YSTFSW050 is occasionally crops up at £70) at some point down the line gives a bit of future proofing.
My one concern about bookshelves is largely aesthetic - with my desk layout they'd have to go behind the monitor which is a bit scruffy, or on the windowsill behind the desk (which is about 10-20mm lower.) I want the whole setup to look uncluttered. I might take my home cinema speakers (Bronze 1's, they'll be my rear surrounds eventually) and stick them on the windowsill to see how it looks.
If I do go the passive bookshelf route can anyone recommend a cheap and cheerful amp such as the one I've mentioned above? I plucked that out as the first thing I came across getting decent reviews on Amazon.
Douglas Quaid said:
An amp and some floorstanders will be vastly superior to crappy desktop pc speakers and doesn’t have to cost a lot. That’s the way I’ve always done it.
I would never have thought to go the floorstander route. I scoffed at first - it seems like overkill - but the more I think about it, it does solve some of the issues (such as siting.)Four downsides I can see (over bookshelves):
1. More power use.
2. Less choice in my budget.
3. Less discreet and would require moving things around.
4. Harder to persuade wifey that it was a cheap purchase.
How far are your floorstanders from you?
Choices wise - there's only one really, it's Tannoy Eclipse 2's for £100 from RS or second hand.
B17NNS said:
I had 3020's on my desk until recently. Cracking little speakers. Add a small USB DAC/amp combo and you're away.
This is the most tempting option. Anything you'd recommend on the DAC/amp combo? I keep seeing headphone amps but I'm not sure whether they'd be up to the job?B17NNS said:
tenohfive said:
This is the most tempting option. Anything you'd recommend on the DAC/amp combo? I keep seeing headphone amps but I'm not sure whether they'd be up to the job?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Bluetooth-Digital-Decoding-Amplifier/dp/B01M3ULDG9/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534604135&sr=1-1&keywords=SMSL+AD18Review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEooiaet9eQ
I also added a couple of these which improved things quite a lot.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SoundXtra-Small-Universal...
clockworks said:
£150 should get you a decent Denon with its original Mission-built speakers.
They start at about £190 without speakers for something like the DM41. The only cheap microsystems I can find are some Pioneers with no specs on the speakers etc for £60. I'm only checked 3-4 sites (including RS, who are usually competitive) but I can't find anything at that price.Crackie said:
Too many stories of CR4's and CR5's failing for my liking unfortunately - Amazon is full of poor reviews of their reliability. They look good in other regards.anonymous said:
[redacted]
They're north of £200 to start. Chuck in a DAC and that's over £100 over budget.kingston12 said:
A lot depends on how much desk space you have or are willing to give up.
This is disconcertingly true.I've just popped a single MA Bronze 1 on my desk. It's a small speaker (by bookshelf standards) but it takes up a big chunk of desk. Whilst I can just about live with the real estate bookshelves would take up, the layout means that there's nowhere sensible to put the second speaker - the edge of the monitor (lined up with the keyboard tray) sits on the edge of the desk. I can't move it to accommodate a speaker without sitting wonky.
I don't like it but actives or passives might be moot if I can't fit them somewhere.
I'm seriously considering the floorstander option as it's cheaper than half-decent bookshelves plus speaker stands - anyone got Tannoy Eclipse 2's? And could I run them off a mini-amp putting out 20W each?
Much as 'proper' speakers sound like the better audio solution practicality may well necessitate something like the Soundsticks.
Second hand might have to be a consideration if I'm going to get the most for my money. I've had a look through but can't see anything particularly local that's jumping out at me though but I'll definitely keep an eye out.
I've also spent a bit of time this morning revisiting speakers. Basically anything shorter than 200mm will fit on the desk under the monitor. So far my short list is MA Monitor 50's and Wharfedale DX2's. The latter are predominantly sold as part of a 5.1 package but can be picked up in pairs. MA's are over budget. £159/pair. But I'm drawn to them as I trust MA gear, they look great, they've been getting great reviews and I know that once bought even if I change the PC setup 10 years down the line they'll still be good for duty somewhere. I could also consider Radius 45's second hand.
To power any of the non-active options being discussed I'm looking at something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Bluetooth-Amplif...
I've also spent a bit of time this morning revisiting speakers. Basically anything shorter than 200mm will fit on the desk under the monitor. So far my short list is MA Monitor 50's and Wharfedale DX2's. The latter are predominantly sold as part of a 5.1 package but can be picked up in pairs. MA's are over budget. £159/pair. But I'm drawn to them as I trust MA gear, they look great, they've been getting great reviews and I know that once bought even if I change the PC setup 10 years down the line they'll still be good for duty somewhere. I could also consider Radius 45's second hand.
To power any of the non-active options being discussed I'm looking at something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Bluetooth-Amplif...
Oakey said:
I'm in the same boat, I was veering towards these after reading reviews;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Gaming-Surround-...
I have a couple of Kef Eggs spare but it'd mean getting an amp and that'd just mean something else taking up more room.
There are a few mini-amp's that appear to be pretty small - the one I'm considering is about the size of a card reader. I like my current clean desk and I don'thttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Gaming-Surround-...
I have a couple of Kef Eggs spare but it'd mean getting an amp and that'd just mean something else taking up more room.
see it impacting that.
Part of the trouble with the Logitech/Razer/Corsair et al RGB setup stuff is that you really need to commit to one company if aesthetics are the priority (unless you're happy with one colour.)
Those Logitech speakers look good but I suspect that even a cheap set of satellite speakers will sound better - I just wonder about bass without a sub.
smithyithy said:
For ~£150 budget, you could easily do a decent DAC / speaker combo.
Nice looking setup you've got there.The trouble with the active route is that it really is the poverty end of the market - both the DAC and the speakers you've linked to have a lot of comments about device failure.
I do think actives are the sensible option. They're just also the expensive ones. I'm happy to look second hand (and agree about AV Forums) but I still think it's going to be a stretch. What manufacturers should I be looking for?
I did have a bit of a left field idea though. The Wharfedale DX2's have already crossed my radar as they're cheap, small and the 5.1 setup package that they normally come in is £349 and gets really good reviews. Granted, several of those reviews are written by Ed Selley who is a 2 channel man reviewing a multi-channel setup, but I'd like to think he knows his stuff regardless.
Now the way I'd make the man maths work is to split the package down - two speakers plus mini-amp for my living room TV, second hand amp and two speakers plus sub for the PC. Keep the centre for my home cinema room (temporarily, until I can afford the rest of the MA setup.) Or some combination of those constituent parts.
I just looked at £99 for two DX-2's, or £349 for four plus centre and sub and wondered if it would work out more economical that way. Probably a daft idea.
Yeah, too big and the wrong colour for my desk but I've had my eye on those recently.
Active speakers do seem like the sensible choice. But I feel like the usual places like RS, Peter Tyson etc aren't the right place to be looking - it seems like there are a lot more studio type active speakers in stock in places like Gear4Music etc. If I can find a short (less than 200mm) enough pair with a sub connection so I can upgrade that at some point, that don't look too council and that are fairly well reviewed. I'll probably pull the trigger on them.
Active speakers do seem like the sensible choice. But I feel like the usual places like RS, Peter Tyson etc aren't the right place to be looking - it seems like there are a lot more studio type active speakers in stock in places like Gear4Music etc. If I can find a short (less than 200mm) enough pair with a sub connection so I can upgrade that at some point, that don't look too council and that are fairly well reviewed. I'll probably pull the trigger on them.
Those keyboards are something else...I know there's some odd fetishes on these forums, and that's right up there.
Just about as the desk is about 1m wide - but then that won't offer much stereo separation. Most bookshelves seem to be in the 250-260mm range, so just under 500mm separation from 400mm away. That sounds a little problematic?
It's pretty annoying, if the keyboard tray was more central on the desk I'd get away with speakers either side of the monitor. I've considered either raising it or wall mounting the monitor on a cantilever stand but that'll mess with viewing angles, distance and probably neck comfort too. I don't like that the monitor position is forcing me to compromise on sound, despite not being an audiophile.
The Presonus Eris 3.5's are the front runner amongst the actives. Given the price (£85) that could also allow either a DAC or pocket money towards a set of wireless gaming cans - I really fancy the SteelSeries Arctis 7's if they drop down below £100.
Passives wise, either Monitor Audio Monitor 50's (stretching budget) or Wharfedale DX-2's.
To give myself options I'm keeping an eye out for the Cambridge Audio Topaz AM1 second hand - it seems fairly common and is cheap so I'm hoping it'll be regularly available as people upgrade. If I can get one for similar money to a new cheap Chinese mini-amp I'll be happy.
GravelBen said:
tenohfive said:
YIf I can find a short (less than 200mm) enough pair
Do you have space to put them on their side? Might open the options up a bit.It's pretty annoying, if the keyboard tray was more central on the desk I'd get away with speakers either side of the monitor. I've considered either raising it or wall mounting the monitor on a cantilever stand but that'll mess with viewing angles, distance and probably neck comfort too. I don't like that the monitor position is forcing me to compromise on sound, despite not being an audiophile.
The Presonus Eris 3.5's are the front runner amongst the actives. Given the price (£85) that could also allow either a DAC or pocket money towards a set of wireless gaming cans - I really fancy the SteelSeries Arctis 7's if they drop down below £100.
Passives wise, either Monitor Audio Monitor 50's (stretching budget) or Wharfedale DX-2's.
To give myself options I'm keeping an eye out for the Cambridge Audio Topaz AM1 second hand - it seems fairly common and is cheap so I'm hoping it'll be regularly available as people upgrade. If I can get one for similar money to a new cheap Chinese mini-amp I'll be happy.
Well I'm moving the goal posts again as a change in circumstances means I have more room than originally planned - I can get away with normally sized bookshelf speakers. Although I'm still strangely drawn to the Monitor Audio Monitor 50's - I just like the aesthetics.
Anyway.
Option 1 - actives:
There's a pair of refurbed Q BT3's in budget currently. That seems to be the leading option. I just wanted to check two things:
1. If I added a sub to the BT3's, would it need to be an active sub and will that limit my choices in the budget sub realm, or can it just use a 'normal,' sub suc as some of the cheaper £100 Yamaha ones on RS currently?
2. If I look to add a pair of wireless headphones (Arctis 7's firmly in my crosshairs) will there be any issues with connections etc?
Option 2 - passives:
I'm looking at Q3020's or MA Monitor 50's, mostly because both are solid performers and would look good on the desk. I'm looking at some sort of SMSL amp or AMP/DAC combo. I'm just confused as to what will run a sub as well. I know something like the AD18 will do everything and is well regarded, but once bookshelves are added I'm well over budget. Would it be cheaper going for a lower priced model and adding the £10 DAC TonyRPH linked? And how can I tell which will work with a sub?
Thanks for the patience everyone - my head is spinning, and I know realistically any of the options I'm considering will be a massive upgrade on what I currently have.
Anyway.
Option 1 - actives:
There's a pair of refurbed Q BT3's in budget currently. That seems to be the leading option. I just wanted to check two things:
1. If I added a sub to the BT3's, would it need to be an active sub and will that limit my choices in the budget sub realm, or can it just use a 'normal,' sub suc as some of the cheaper £100 Yamaha ones on RS currently?
2. If I look to add a pair of wireless headphones (Arctis 7's firmly in my crosshairs) will there be any issues with connections etc?
Option 2 - passives:
I'm looking at Q3020's or MA Monitor 50's, mostly because both are solid performers and would look good on the desk. I'm looking at some sort of SMSL amp or AMP/DAC combo. I'm just confused as to what will run a sub as well. I know something like the AD18 will do everything and is well regarded, but once bookshelves are added I'm well over budget. Would it be cheaper going for a lower priced model and adding the £10 DAC TonyRPH linked? And how can I tell which will work with a sub?
Thanks for the patience everyone - my head is spinning, and I know realistically any of the options I'm considering will be a massive upgrade on what I currently have.
Grrr. I was just about to approach SWMBO and have that awkward conversation about how much my life would be enriched by something I don't strictly need and which involves not an insignificant amount of expenditure when I realised that RS aren't actually selling the BT-3's - they've got a listing and a price for them refurbed but don't actually have the option to buy.
https://www.richersounds.com/q-acoustics-qbt3-1.ht...
https://www.richersounds.com/q-acoustics-qbt3-1.ht...
Quick update:
I've finally made the call to go for passive speakers. I just couldn't find any studio monitors/actives in budget that didn't look every bit as cheap as the £15 Logitech specials, or that didn't have a good chunk of user reviews mentioning issues (Mackies/Presonus) whilst the QA BT-3's are looking too difficult to get hold of.
On the bookshelf front I've narrowed it down to Monitor 50's or Q3010i's. I want to see both in the flesh before making any decisions as my concern with the 3010's is that whilst fairly short, they're pretty deep. But I like the looks of both.
Am I right in saying that traditionally Monitor Audio speakers tend to be quite clear and bright, whereas Q's offer less clarity but a more forgiving performance in their lower end speakers?
If so, all else being equal for an immersive gaming experience (putting music to one side for a second) what would peoples preference be?
I've still not picked out an amp yet mind. I probably will look at one of the SMSL offerings.I'm also set on being able to connect a budget/second hand sub as I'm aware that any small bookshelf won't offer the greatest bass response, particularly with being unable to put them close to a rear wall - the desk backs onto a window.
I've finally made the call to go for passive speakers. I just couldn't find any studio monitors/actives in budget that didn't look every bit as cheap as the £15 Logitech specials, or that didn't have a good chunk of user reviews mentioning issues (Mackies/Presonus) whilst the QA BT-3's are looking too difficult to get hold of.
On the bookshelf front I've narrowed it down to Monitor 50's or Q3010i's. I want to see both in the flesh before making any decisions as my concern with the 3010's is that whilst fairly short, they're pretty deep. But I like the looks of both.
Am I right in saying that traditionally Monitor Audio speakers tend to be quite clear and bright, whereas Q's offer less clarity but a more forgiving performance in their lower end speakers?
If so, all else being equal for an immersive gaming experience (putting music to one side for a second) what would peoples preference be?
I've still not picked out an amp yet mind. I probably will look at one of the SMSL offerings.I'm also set on being able to connect a budget/second hand sub as I'm aware that any small bookshelf won't offer the greatest bass response, particularly with being unable to put them close to a rear wall - the desk backs onto a window.
Edited by tenohfive on Friday 31st August 13:37
smithyithy said:
I can't comment on the specifics of the sound dude but I've always found https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/ really useful for advice and info
Cheers, I've stuck a post up there.TonyRPH said:
Bit over budget but active speakers - don't know how they sound
You could possibly audition them at Richer Sounds.
There's not much info on Tibo's but I'm seriously considering audtioning the MA's and Q's mentioned above so I could look at doing the same with them.You could possibly audition them at Richer Sounds.
I did have a bit of an idea on the amp front at least - my AVR is within reach, and having checked the manual I can add a second zone using the Rear Surround terminals. I'm not planning on going beyond 5.1 with that AVR so those terminals wouldn't be used ordinarily. I just won't be able to add a sub.
I'm tempted to give that a go in the short term as it means I can get sound, and the amp can be added as funds allow at a later date. I presume the built in DAC will be much more effective than anything I can afford right now too.
Quick update on this thread, and (hopefully) one last question.
I ended up getting a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i's. They're a bit slimmer but deeper than the older model and sitting on my desk they look just...lovely. I know I shouldn't comment on aesthetics over acoustics, but it doesn't do any harm to have a pair of lookers.
They're connected to the second zone of my AVR which it seems can operate independently provided it has an analog input from the PC (see more below.) I think that's going to save me the cost of an amp which is a bonus.
Sound wise they aren't run in yet but they sound deeper, more forgiving and a bit less bright than my Bronze 1's. I really like the sound. Having both in the same room I've been able to compare music mid song and I really like both but in different ways - the honesty in the vocals of the MA's is great on some tracks, but for comfortable easy listening the 3010i's really do seem to be able to make most music sound great to my non-audiophile ears.
So - technical question:
The manual says the AVR can't take an optical/HDMI in for Zone 2 playback, analog only (albeit I can still use the AVR as a source - HEOS app works fine for music playback, so Tidal/Spotify is all good - this will be my music playback sources.)
I want to connect my PC. I could run a 3.5mm to RCA cable in which I presume would utilise the motherboards DAC. Is there any benefit in getting a Chinese special DAC from Amazon etc? Any difference in quality between RCA to RCA vs 3.5mm to RCA? Or if I got a DAC with an optical out would the AVR recognise that the conversion has taken place or just throw a wobbler and refuse to accept it as a Zone 2 source?
I ended up getting a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i's. They're a bit slimmer but deeper than the older model and sitting on my desk they look just...lovely. I know I shouldn't comment on aesthetics over acoustics, but it doesn't do any harm to have a pair of lookers.
They're connected to the second zone of my AVR which it seems can operate independently provided it has an analog input from the PC (see more below.) I think that's going to save me the cost of an amp which is a bonus.
Sound wise they aren't run in yet but they sound deeper, more forgiving and a bit less bright than my Bronze 1's. I really like the sound. Having both in the same room I've been able to compare music mid song and I really like both but in different ways - the honesty in the vocals of the MA's is great on some tracks, but for comfortable easy listening the 3010i's really do seem to be able to make most music sound great to my non-audiophile ears.
So - technical question:
The manual says the AVR can't take an optical/HDMI in for Zone 2 playback, analog only (albeit I can still use the AVR as a source - HEOS app works fine for music playback, so Tidal/Spotify is all good - this will be my music playback sources.)
I want to connect my PC. I could run a 3.5mm to RCA cable in which I presume would utilise the motherboards DAC. Is there any benefit in getting a Chinese special DAC from Amazon etc? Any difference in quality between RCA to RCA vs 3.5mm to RCA? Or if I got a DAC with an optical out would the AVR recognise that the conversion has taken place or just throw a wobbler and refuse to accept it as a Zone 2 source?
That makes sense - thanks. I'd already ordered a long optical cable before I realised I needed an analog input, so I've now ordered this DAC and a short RCA cable to connect it all up. I went for that DAC largely for convenience - I've got a USB hub nearby (power only) and it's a less obtrusive cable than a DC in.
Will post back when I've got it all setup.
This hifi stuff is quite addictive - I've never been that bothered about my music, but having a half decent setup for the PC is making me listen to a tonne more music.
I'm having to resist the urge to get one of the dirt cheap amps I was considering above and a pair of Diamond 9.0's or similar for my living room TV (that's the cheap one - proper setup is in it's own room) but I want it to be connected as multi-room via HEOS. That basically means trying to pick up a Denon X1400H second hand, or using one of their standalone speakers and using that as a soundbox.
Will post back when I've got it all setup.
This hifi stuff is quite addictive - I've never been that bothered about my music, but having a half decent setup for the PC is making me listen to a tonne more music.
I'm having to resist the urge to get one of the dirt cheap amps I was considering above and a pair of Diamond 9.0's or similar for my living room TV (that's the cheap one - proper setup is in it's own room) but I want it to be connected as multi-room via HEOS. That basically means trying to pick up a Denon X1400H second hand, or using one of their standalone speakers and using that as a soundbox.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
£190 for the speakers, £19 for the DAC. So £209. I could have run a 3.5mm to RCA cable and avoided the DAC for about £6 but it seems a worthwhile upgrade to the overall system to use a separate DAC rather than the onboard one.I'm not counting cables as they're a) cheap and b) things I've either already got in my drawer, or should have.
I'd say it was a relatively mild case of budget creep - and if I'd gone for the Monitor 50's (ruled out by SWMBO on looks grounds) it would have been less. It's actually meant that I've got a full sized cabinet with the acoustic benefits that offers, and what's more - she basically pushed me into the more expensive option...what's a man to do?
The one thing that saved me money is being able to use my AVR and more specifically being able to use a second zone that's independent of my main zone. Having 75W/channel instead of a mini-amp is a bonus, I can use a wider variety of sources and I can control everything from my phone or tablet by app. It's more than I need but also features I'll use.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but from looking around it seems like people keep hold of passive speakers for a very long time as they're fundamentally reliable and unlikely to go wrong. In the man-maths world I think that's justified as an investment.
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