LIBOR 'arrests imminent' - no doubt just a few traders...

[johnfm]

Let's hope the 'imminent' arrests apply to all those politicians, BoE and Whitehallers who were complicit in the low setting of LIBOR...

There is NO WAY that Brown, Darling, King et al were unaware that LIBOR was lower than real trading rates should suggest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...

Somehow, I have a feeling that not one single member of either the BoE or the government of the day will be implicated in this.

[johnfm]

I expect it will all be limited to some unknown trader who was sacked 4 years ago and sent an email saying "go on, submit at the lower/higher end of your guess and I'll buy you coffee"

Whereas King, Tucker, Balls, Darling, Brown et al will have nothing at all to answer...

[johnfm]

Well, it looks like I absolutely nailed this - though it was totally predictable. The classic scapegoat prosecution.

So, conspiracy to defraud. Be interested to know why no big senior people knew anything about this. What a load of twaddle. And 14 years?? What a ridiculous sentence. He was better off murdering all the witnesses and prosecutors - he would have got a lower sentence for mere murder.

[johnfm]

Eric Mc said:

Dragging up a 13 year old case to prove a point I don't think proves anything. Attitudes to crimes change over time. I expect that law treats rape a lot more seriously than it did 13 years ago. We know that even four or five years ago the authorities weren't keen on doing any serious investigation into child molesting. Look how that has suddenly changed in a few short years.

At last the law certainly seems to want to treat fraud a lot more seriously now (and about time too).

There are eight more cases linked to the LIBOR scandal due in court over the next few years. Let's see what happens with them.

It wasn't fraud. It was a conspiracy to defraud charge.

Fraudstars are rarely caught let alone charged - not enough resource.

[johnfm]

Eric Mc said:

Will he have to pay back any of the commissions he earned?

Is this an additional scapegoat tax for the pleasure of the baying mob?

[johnfm]

Eric Mc said:

Well, if he obtained the funds illegally - which by definition must be true as he is now a jailbird, it would have to be seen as a "proceed of crime" and refundable to his employer (ironically).

Indeed. it wouldn't help the taxpayer because,. if he had to pay it back, HMRC might have to pay back the taxes and NI they collected on his illegally earned bonuses.

How will you figure out which additional funds are a result of his phone calls?

Is there any evidence yet that, given how many banks set Libor and that the upper and lower figures are discarded etc, that his heinous conspiracy had any effect whatsoever on the actual level of Libor?

Even if so, that effect would have been minuscule and his share of any gains would have been only a fraction of any alleged gains.

Suggesting that all his bonus is proceeds of crime is just daft.

[johnfm]

Bluebarge said:

fblm said:

Bluebarge said:

I suspect the number of "victims" of the crime would also have an impact. LIBOR is used for many loan products, so any artificial inflation of the rate would potentially affect millions of people, making them pay more than they should.

According to the prosecutors and regulators in the barclays case, the most egregious manipulation of rates was down!

Then I guess lenders lost and, by extension, their shareholders. Swings and roundabouts I suppose. I suspect it being such a prestigious benchmark may also have had something to do with it. This did leave the City looking very foolish.

Is there any actual evidence to suggest that rates were actually depressed as a result of these various calls? Isn't the rate arrived at by removing upper and lower 'outliers'? Or is there a suggestion that every single offered rate from every setting bank was lower as a result of mars Bars and curries?

[johnfm]

Eric Mc said:

I didn't say all his bonus was result of his crimninal activity. But it wouldn't be beyond the wit of a few financial bods to work out what proportion of it was. Why should he and his family benefit financially from his wrongdoings?

I expect his bonus was 'discretionary', rather than linked directly to his Libor rate dealing - bu who knows.

Pretty obvious this guy is a scapegoat and the sentence has been used to 'flush out' some testimony from those waiting in the wings so they can go after the guys higher up who also knew how the system was being run.

[johnfm]

Eric Mc said:

The law is often used "to send a message".

Isn't the "deterrence factor" part of its purpose?

Can't disagree with that - but if they are wanting to deter and 'send a message' why haven't they sought to go after those higher up the ladder (i.e. the CEOs etc). Further, why have they not chosen to deter MPS who fraudulently claimed expenses. No conspiracy - actual fraud. Only a handful of MPs were charged when it was pretty clear that hundreds had met the necessary ingredients of the offence of fraud.

[johnfm]

crankedup said:

johnfm said:

Eric Mc said:

Will he have to pay back any of the commissions he earned?

Is this an additional scapegoat tax for the pleasure of the baying mob?

You seem to have difficulty defining criminality within Society! Whilst criminals of other unlawful activities do have their ill-gotten gains confiscated do you believe that should not apply to criminals within professions? If so, why?

I have no issue defining criminality. You seem to have an issue wiwth the nuances that must be observed before you start incarcerating people or taking away their money/possessions.

[johnfm]

deadslow said:

johnfm said:

Eric Mc said:

Will he have to pay back any of the commissions he earned?

Is this an additional scapegoat tax for the pleasure of the baying mob?

Its a bloody shame this poor chap is being scapegoated. If they would stick all of the city-crooks in jail and throw away the key, then this poor professional person would not have to endure the scapegoat tag. While they're at it, they could sack all the other mealy mouthed city tossers who claim they can't tell right from wrong.

And all the non-city crooks, like MPS, coppers, workers up and down the land who break the law. But they don't. They prosecute either for political necessity or the easy ones where the accused lack the means to mount a defence.

Note: this guy broke the law. No doubt. His punishment in addition to prison will be not being able to work in a regulated profession again. That is probably enough.