another abuse gang

[andymadmak]

.......this time in High Wycombe, allegations dating back to 2007 and involving at least one 12 year old girl
(although the Police only started proper investigations last December)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...

I simply don't understand the gang mentality behind actions like this. What makes a GROUP of men want to abuse a 12 year old girl? It's bad enough that individuals do it, but to get together with other people, apparently on a regular basis for this kind of horrific activity is so outside of my ability to comprehend that it simply fries my brain.
Are there any professionals in psychology on here that can explain the mentality behind group abuse of this sort?

[andymadmak]

mat777 said:

Are they of a similar heritage to the other recent gang?

If yes, then look at the average age of (forced) brides in their home countries, and couple this with their attitude to white girls being worthless trash

I was trying to avoid any reference to ethnicity, back ground or religious beliefs. I don't know the make up of the 8 accused.
You read about individual abusers of all types and colours. I suppose I look upon those people as loners acting out their sick fantasies. What I don't get at all is the idea of a gang, a group, getting together in this way. Does none of them ever say "hang on a moment guys, we shouldn't be doing this to a 12 year old kid" ?

[andymadmak]

Imam interviewed in Paul Vallely article said:

Sometimes the women, especially those who have come from Pakistan for an arranged marriage, need lessons on how to seduce their husbands. I told one woman that she needed to pay more attention to her husband and she paused and said: “I’ll iron more of his shirts then”. I had to explain that wasn’t quite what I meant.”

Now thats funny in ANY culture

[andymadmak]

Are you trolling bobdole? Serious question.
This thread was not targetted at any specific race. The question asked was how on earth a group of blokes ( of any race) can decide to set up an abuse gang. Who asks who what in order to get started? It beggars belief that someone says " hey guys, great idea i have just had, lets groom and rape some 12 year olds, i know just where to find some vulnerable ones".

It has been pointed out that there are paedos of all races. We know that. All of them are bad. What has been observed however is that some of these bds have formed groups. And it has been further observed that a disproportionally large number of these groups are comprised almost entirely of Asian men. That does not make their actions better or worse than a white group, or a black group or any other group or individual. What people are trying to nderstand as this thread has developed is why most of the groups are Asian, when Asians are a small minority of the population.

But you knew that.

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

Get real. The salacious angle that the papers and knuckle dragger's want to focus on is "Gangs of Asian men abuse white girls.

Given that i am the OP on this thread, I think I have a pretty good idea what the original question was!
This thread is not about a salacious angle. Christ on a bike, if you think there is a salacious angle to child abuse then you're not right in the head.
Read my original post carefully. Get someone to read it to you if you're not sure as to its meaning.

As to your other posts, well, you seem determined to shoot the messengers rather than deal with the message. It is undoubtedly true that children in care are more vulnerable, and that our bloated, PC riddled social services seem unable to focus on the most imprtant elements, namely the care and protection of the children. It is also tru that the Police seem to have, in too many cases, chosen to ignore what was going onunder their noses. For the avoidance of any doubt both the Social Services and the Police need to look at themselves and work out better ways to ensure the protection of the young and vulnerable in society's care.
But none of that detracts from the initial question... Which is why a group of men do this. The individual paedo like Savile or Glitter is bad enough, but what is the group dynamic? How on earth does that work? Why does no one close to the group say ' this is wrong' ?
As i posted before, it has been observed that Asian ( Pakistani Muslim) men form a disproportionately large number of these gangs and are represented in the majority within them. To ignore that is to ignore one of the key issues. Set aside your determination to be PC about this. Forget the multicultural right on enraged double speak, and focus on the facts.
If we could understand why Pakistani Muslim men are disproportionately represented in paedo gangs then perhaps we could address some of the problem at source.
The task here is to protect the children, Its not to avoid offending your PC sensibilities.

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

IanMorewood said:

Can I suggest that this is a possible scenario;
Girl befriended in takeaway by the all male staff, given small gifts, enjoys attention, flirts with all the staff, one of the lads has a cheeky grope she doesn’t object, next time its not one of the lads (lets say the uncle) but as the girl ended up with something to eat she happy enough to sit on his knee whilst he has a rummage under her top. Fast forward a week or three and she’s upstairs watching TV with a bottle of Vodka and a supply of chips when from time to time one of the staff from the takeaway comes upstairs for some R&R with her.

Here it is.

That might explain the mechanism. It does not explain the mentality though does it?

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

Mentality is because in this country we give not a fig about our kids in care on the whole, cases like this highlight that fact quite clearly. So we dont as a society care, they get shoved around get into drugs and drink and fall in to the wrong crowds, clearly a predatory male of any colour or race will see that if they let their perversions run amock they can pretty much do what they wish as these are a forgotten group of kids, the under class, the kids that one day we will judge on Jeremy Kyle, ones we will call dole scroungers, scumbags etc etc..
Maybe if we cared more in the first place then they wouldn't be in such desperate situations that they need to hang around blokes older than them for 'free' food, booze and drugs...they probably at first crave the attention of the men...its sad beyond belief, its is shocking and terrible, but its a sad reflection on the UK as a country that we let these kids slip down that slope in the first place.... in care shouldn't mean rolling round the streets aged 12-16 at all hours...

Oh. So its societys fault then. And the kids, well by hanging around older blokes they're just asking for it eh? Craving it eh? Just cos a 13 year old thinks she is mature enough to put out for a swig of vodka and a bag of chips does not in any way whatsoever absolve the perpatrator of his crimes.
You are one sick puppy bobdole. By blaming everyone, including the victims instead of focussing on the perpatrators you are absolutely part of the problem.
That society needs to care better for its more vulnerable members is undoubtedly true. Responsibility for the crime though rests with the perpatrator.
I think you should go troll somewhere else.

[andymadmak]

MX7 said:

"You left your front door open, so you deserve to be burgled."

I wonder if bobdole is actually judge peter bowers...... We should wait to see if Bob calls these paedo gangs brave

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

Brilliant. So the care system is fine as it is letting young girls roam the streets all hours is it? Get real, so you would allow your daughter if you had one to roam around the streets at night aged 12?

There are men out there who will rape and abuse girls, thats a cold hard fact. So either we remove the abusers (very very difficult as might be first crime so will be on the streets freely) or do you stop the children going into danger situation in first place??

(he's correct...quick call him a troll)

Use some intelligence and ponder that please.

And you are the sick bloke who seems his biggest problem is trying to work out why these gangs want to share it around?

Edited by bobdole on Sunday 9th December 17:21

You really are a piece of work. This thread is about what motivates groups of men to do this. I and others have freely criticised the police and social services. However, no matter how crap those agencies have been, it does not detract one iota from where the ultimate blame for these crimes lies.
YOU were the one calling the crimes salacious. YOU were the one determined to make allegations of racism.

fk off and troll somewhere else. This subject is far too serious for your games. The victims deserve to be supported. They don't need idiots like you hiding behind PC crap, or seeking to smear them. Craving attention is the phrase you used. You should be ashamed.

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

I know this as I'm a psychiatrist.

God help your patients if that is true. Which I doubt.

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

andymadmak said:

bobdole said:

I know this as I'm a psychiatrist.

God help your patients if that is true. Which I doubt.

Well starting a thread to gain access to details on why men abuse kids is not without its interest to a psychiatrist that's for sure. I am quite intrigued as to your motives that's for sure.

Crap attempt at a smear. Read my first post.

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

What are you on ? ratalin?

Hmmmm. Would it be unreasonable to assume that a genuine psychiatrist would know how to spell ritalin?

[andymadmak]

bobdole said:

CaptainSlow said:

Chrisw666 said:

bobdole said:

Best prostitutes I ever had the pleasure of sexual liaisons with were some lovely Thai girls in bankok ... wonderful, Prague was scary, Amsterdam was full of stunners but ruined by the northern stag do brigade ...I slept with prostitutes not from need but for the experience. I am an extremely handsome man.

Wonder if he got formal ID from the Thai girls.

Ok, so an abuser himself then.

You must have a good lawyer. Be very careful of the written word, its hard to retract.

Whats the matter Bob? Dish it out but can't take it? A couple of posts back you were making nasty insinuations about why I started this thread.

How old were the girls?

[andymadmak]

JensenA said:

If you read Bobdole's post he said 'Prostitutes'. no mention whatsover of ages.
.

Yes. However, taken in context of how Bobby likes to read stuff into other peoples posts its not unreasonable to question his actions in this regard. A certain Mr Gadd could no doubt educate us as to the ages of a number of Thai prostitutes.

[andymadmak]

JensenA said:

YOU and Chrisw666 are the ones jumping to conclusions, and unwittingly baring your small inner secret of a fixation on younger girls.

Bobby uses the word girls in connection with the Thai prostitutes

[andymadmak]

Apache said:

This thread is like a car crash, fascinating and horrible at the same time. Possibly the saddest of the year?

Indeed. And even now we are still none the wiser as to what goes on inside the heads of a bunch of blokes (of any colour, creed or economic group) that suddenly makes it ok for them to groom kids for sex, and then swap them between themselves as if they were football cards.
As I said in my original post, it simply fries my brain when I try to imagine the conversations between guys like this.
I'm afraid the thread got derailed by the whole Muslim/Pakistani thing.
The only point I could see that bobdole was trying to make was that if you take the kids off the street, you take away the opportunity for paedos to act. I suppose thats no different to saying if you don't want your car stoeln make sure you lock it. On one very minor level there is some truth in that thought process. However, (despite what your insurance company will say) leaving your car unlocked should not be seen as an invitation to nick it. Likewise, being a 14 year old girl on the street late at night should not lead you to be sexually abused. The responsibility lies with criminal, not with you for leaving your car unlocked or with social services/police/parents for the child being out late.
This is what bobdole failed to accept. He wanted to focus on shared culpability, plus he wanted it to be about race. Why? Because by making these two links he on the one hand deflected blame from the perpatrators. Those craving needy girls were there for the taking, so they were taken. Whilst on the other hand he wanted to brand anyone who highlighted that the majority of rape gangs were Pakistani Muslim in origin as racist because that has been the tactic of choice for PC Guardianistas when it comes to stifling debate.
Nobody is saying that all Paedos are Asian. Nobody is saying that white people and black people cannot also be Paedos. Nobody is saying that only Asian paedos form gangs. What people ARE saying is that in the world of paedo gangs, there is very strong evidence to suggest that the Asian (Pakistani Muslim) community is very significantly over represented when compared to their proportion of the population.
So to protect the victims, it makes ense to understand why this might be the case! Is the appearance wrong? Is it right, but simply a coincidence? Or is it a cultural thing that can be addressed to some degree?

Even then, I still don't get how bloke A says to blokes B, C, D and E.. "hey lads lets go rape a 13 year old" and doesn't immediately get his teeth knocked in by B, C, D and E as a result. Bobdole says my motives are questionable for wanting to understand this. I disagree. I think it's the key to finding at least a partial solution.

[andymadmak]

MadMullah said:

i doubt its anything as simple as that - that there's one moment where they say ok lads lets do this.

flame me if you want but living in a chavvy town and when your finishing work at 3am (i work as a doorman) and there's 14-16 yr old girls walking around and importantly hanging around places where such incidents take place you have to think where are the parents at? do they not wonder where their kids are?

so as they get more and more familiar with the local cabbies/takeaway people it just develops from there. the fact that so many of these kids come from a broken background is a clear element in it - i'm not saying the children are at fault but there is a factor whereby the parents do need to be held accountable

whilst its not predictable who will be a paedo the case of who is potentially a victim can be narrowed down.

Interesting point - and I doubt you'll get much flaming here for expressing that view. Lets assume that things are pretty much as you describe - young girls out at all hours etc. Lets even assume that some are "up for it". Lets also assume that some of the blokes don't know that the girls are under age. (some girls do look a lot older than they are)
That still doesn't explain the grooming and abuse of girls who are CLEARLY under age. It also doesn't explain why the moral compass alarm in the abusers heads doesn't go off at 150dB when they are groom these kids. It doesn't explain why, even when offered it on a plate by a needy 13year old, these guys don't just say "I'm sorry sweetheart, but you're too young." instead of, "yeah baby, and do you mind if my mates join in too!". It doesn't explain why some men go out of their way to target young girls that are groomed and physically bullied into doing what the Paedos want. Given that many of the pictures I have seen of the perpatrators show older men, 40s+ (ie, not 19 year olds looking for a first shag) what switches these people from (presumably) being ordinary blokes, probably with a family, running a business, to being a monster who gets together with his mates (presumably in similar circumstances) to abuse kids? There has to be something to look for as a clue?

As a father, I don't want to be looking at every man I see as a potential monster!

[andymadmak]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-2...

Is this an old scandal or a new one? I've lost track

[andymadmak]

jshell said:

The last thread was beautifully manipulated into 'ban' territory. I'm saddened but angry at the same time as it's such an important topic. .

I agree, but lets face facts, it is impossible to have a debate about these things. Every single time a question is raised or theory postulated that some ( not all) of the factors in these cases might have some basis in the religion, or that it must at least be considered rather than dismissed out of hand, the usual suspects will appear to brandish the R card and throw around outrageous slanders that have no basis in the views of those wishing to have a grown up discussion. It does not matter how clearly one spells things out. I , more than most on that other thread know how it feels to have the R card played at every turn against me. . Words get twisted, meanings get deliberately mangled. Anything and everything is justified in the quest to defend the ROP against even the slightest hint of scandal.
At least the Catholics have started to admit they have a problem! Maybe in a few hundred years we can get to the same place with Islam and SOME of its followers.
The problem is that into the vacuum of no debate is drawn the unsavoury and the undesirable. Its not just the BNP or the EDL or those like them, it's the casual received wisdom of the man in the street thst Islam cannot be debated, cannot be questionned even when a link appears to be there for some of the awful things that happen. many ordinary folk will form their own views, and those views will be far worse than anything the debate supressors can tackle.
It amazes me that these people simply cannot see that by supressing debate in this way they actually make the situation worse for the wider Muslim community ( ooooh i used the C word again)

I was in Florence today, beautiful city that it is. Two hawkers were trying to get us into their respective restaurants and do you know how one tried to convince me? He said the other fellow was a Muslim, cos he had a beard, and his name was Muhammed. He said the Muslim would spit on our food, he said the Muslim was probably a terrorist, and why would I want to eat at the restaurant of a terrorist.?....... In the end we did not go into either place, ( we did not want a big meal) but it shocked me that even here in Italy the concept that to label someone a Muslim was to be considered as an insult. That the term Muslim should automatically conjur up the images of secret anti western feelings and thinly disguised terrorism. It appalled me. How can the Muslim community defend itself against this awful tide of "popular wisdom"? O don't know the answer, but I sure as hell do know that suppressing reasonable debate, quoshing honest questions, blocking a free expresssion of opinion ( so that when wrong it can be ammended by the truth) is NOT the way.
We lost the last thread to a bigot and his agenda to stifle debate. Lets not lose this one the same way. I urge the usual suspects to open their minds and engage positively . Of course we could go back to counting how many times I use the phrase Muslim community, but then we might as well close this thread too if that's going to be the case.

[andymadmak]

Transmat said:

Another gang outed. Historic abuse, but still bad none the less.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348790/To...

Awful behaviour. Goes to prove the point that not all the gangs are Muslims. Mind you, that is a point that nobody was denying.