Malaysian Airlines 777 down on Ukraine / Russia Border?

[anonymous-user]

the Americans did it against Iran and never paid a penny, so i guess if Russia did it they will never admit to it.

It could be a game that Russia will blame the Ukraine, but they actually did it, but maybe never find out..

[anonymous-user]

Shot down by the Ukrainian rebels apparently. Presumably supplied by Russia.



BBC say this is potentially "hugely embarrassing " for the Russian government. Only hugely embarrassing? FFS.

[anonymous-user]

HannsG said:

Can a stinger missile shoot at that range? 33,000 feet???

that is what i thought, but i guess they just aim at the sky and press the button on the rocket and fire...blind

But I do think it is Russia as they need a good excuse to invade the Ukraine.

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

no.

your talking serious stuff to do this, as in this:

you mean what Russia have been supplying to the separatists..

[anonymous-user]

youtube video of smokey smoke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6sGngsfVeY

[anonymous-user]

Fittster said:

Korean Air Lines Flight 007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flig...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

'Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988'

'According to the Iranian government, Vincennes negligently shot down the civilian aircraft: the airliner was making IFF squawks in Mode III (not Mode II used by Iranian military planes), a signal that identified it as a civilian craft, and operators of Vincennes mistook for Mode II.['

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

Is it certain it was struck by a missile of some sorts or could it be malfunction of the plane?

It would be an incredible coincidence if the plane made it all the way to the spot where they have been shooting each other planes down the last few days only to suffer some massive unrelated mechanical failure.

[anonymous-user]

Absolutely dreadful, but as others have said, it won't amount to much in the long run.

WW3 will not be caused as a result of an airliner full of civilians being shot down.

Feel for their families though. Very much wrong place at the wrong time.

[anonymous-user]

petemurphy said:

REALIST123 said:

Shot down by the Ukrainian rebels apparently. Presumably supplied by Russia.



BBC say this is potentially "hugely embarrassing " for the Russian government. Only hugely embarrassing? FFS.

yes prob just embarassing what do u think will happen they will get nuked?

No of course not.

But to be 'embarrassed' is not much of a reaction is it? Of course it is unlikely to be the Russians, and certainly not a deliberate act by them; that wasn't my point.

The BBC's viewpoint was that the shooting down of a passenger plane was only worthy of being embarrassing..........wait a minute what am I doing wasting my time debating with someone who hasn't even got a basic grasp of grammar?

Forget it.

[anonymous-user]

http://www.flightradar24.com/49.31,31.44/6

flight radar over ukraine pretty sparse.

[anonymous-user]

in 2001 there was a more similar incident.

'Siberia Airlines Flight 1812

Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members

Ukraine admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.[1]'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flig...

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

Bizarre that a civilian aircraft would be anywhere near the mess in the Ukraine.

flight tracker reported 2 planes around 25 -50 km, away from this plane.

There is one minor detail it looks like the pilot adjusted his course slightly which moved the plane further into the bad zone.

[anonymous-user]

We fly with Singapore Airlines and they take the same route from LHR to SIN, they've announced all aircraft will be diverting around this area from now on. Looks like some carriers made the decision back in April to avoid this area and others presumably for cost saving and/or schedulig reasons have continued to fly over it. Malaysia Airlines will get killed for this in the press but they are no more guilty than the other airlines who also took the risk but got away with it.

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

It is probable that the BUK launchers were "liberated" from former Ukraine Army bases as the Ukraine Army pulled out of Eastern Ukraine - so not necessarily supplied directly by Russia. It is also probable that there will be personnel in the Separatist groups who had received training on the BUK when in Ukraine Army service.

I am not trying to dispel any direct Russian involvement, but I think that the rebel usage of the BUK may have followed a slightly more complicated path than simple "the Russians must have supplied the missile system and trained the operators".

Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th July 09:00

Putin is ultimately responsible no matter how the plane was shot down and by who. This is his war, orchestrated so that he could continue his land grab on the former soviet states.

[anonymous-user]

Bluequay said:

We fly with Singapore Airlines

a Singapore airline and India airline were 25km -50 km away from this plane according to flight radar tracker website.

on wiki they put the buk at a 2.5–32 km attack radius, so maybe the flight just flew over an active buk, and it was bad luck as it would seem a very small window of attack.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Friday 18th July 09:26

[anonymous-user]

Reardy Mister said:

This is he crux of it, to me:

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/07...

Fine, it was declared safe and you were 300m inside the safe zone. But many others had decided not to risk it.

Malaysian Airlines has fallen victim to the Swiss Cheese model twice in in a short space of time, which points to inherent bad or not best practices (for each time something gets through, there would have been a number of close calls) and is why people would be justified in not flying with them.

As i have put early in the thread there were other airlines in the area, but i guess combined with the buk effective radius of 30-40km it was a perfect storm, and just bad luck really..

[anonymous-user]

Stevanos said:

pro-Russian militants = Russians as far as the West are concerned as they are bankrolled and supplied by the Russians

and i think most pro-russian militants have been found to be either serving russian army or special forces, or mercenaries paid by the russians.

[anonymous-user]

BigsimonY said:

interesting reading.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/18/mh17-ma...

I am not an expert but those soldiers don't look like ex farmer rebels rising up against the Ukraine, they look like battle conditioned killing machines with vast experience and knowledge.





'Self-proclaimed Prime Minister of the pro-Russian separatist 'Donetsk People's Republic' Alexander Borodai (C) stands as he arrives on the site of the crash of a Malaysian airliner carrying 298 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, near the town of Shaktarsk, in rebel-held east Ukraine, on July 17, 2014.'

they look like Russias finest.

[anonymous-user]

Doesn't flightradar24 work in the Ukraine?...

[anonymous-user]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

It has a fair share of tinfoilers on there, but it also has some decent stuff.

Fair share? The commenters are all a bunch of complete mentalists! Some of their articles are interesting but many have howling technical errors that an intern could explain are perfectly normal and not irrefutable proof of alien lizard interference requiring followers to buy physical gold and bitcoins.