B.O.E. gets tougher on bankers

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Announced this morning on the BeeB. The bankers bonus payments will be deferred for seven years, up from the present 3/4 years. Seven years is thought to be the time lapse required for any bankers misbehaviour that contributed to a bonus payment being uncovered. In the event that any errant banker has spent the money action will follow to recover said payment, I presume a Regularity Body would use presume asset seizures through Law Courts.
Obviously its another minor turn of the screw in an attempt to placate the great British public.

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Moonhawk said:

crankedup said:

Obviously its another minor turn of the screw in an attempt to placate the great British public.

It sounds like a reasonable position to me.

If bonuses are based on performance..........how can you award said bonus unless both the positive and negative aspects of that performance can be accurately assessed.

The longer it takes to make that assessment - the longer the period between bonus payments. Makes sense surely?

Agreed, my POV exactly. Just an attempt to raise the issue from a neutral stance, old hands in here will know of my POV regards these issues.

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My understanding is that this proposal, likely to be introduced January 2015, is the B.O.E. demand?

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s1962a said:

How many 'bankers' will actually be affected by these changes? Me thinks a handful

That is the hope I guess, the penalty will outweigh the risk of any skulduggery. Its the likelihood of being caught within the seven year period may just dissuade naughty people.

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Government is busy encouraging the pharmaceuticals, sciences, engineering and a return to manufacturing. Whilst they are busy with that they are also keen to clamp down on the errant ways that some banks have done business. Much less reliance on the banking sector is the aim, and that is a good thing imo.

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fblm said:

crankedup said:

Government is busy encouraging the pharmaceuticals, sciences, engineering and a return to manufacturing. Whilst they are busy with that they are also keen to clamp down on the errant ways that some banks have done business. Much less reliance on the banking sector is the aim, and that is a good thing imo.

Indeed it is, I don't think anyone would try and argue otherwise. The question I have is why did Labour not try and 're-balance the economy' when they were in power with an overwhelming majority? Why is it up to a shoddy coalition government to do so? Secondly I think you would agree the best way to reweight the economy is to build up other industry, not simply destroy financial services (and let them all fvck off to pastures new). There's a smart way to go about this and a dumb way.

The drift away from our traditional areas of strength began decades ago, why it was deemed smart to abandon apprenticeships was the last nail in the coffin.
imo the Authorities desperately need to clamp down on errant ways in the finance industry, its deplorable it was left for so long without decent regulation and actions. Now it appears regulation is going over the top and draconian for some. No Government can afford to reside over further banking scandals and the Country cannot afford it either.
Questions regarding the last Labour Government, I agree with you but do not have the answers.

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otolith said:

We need to diversify our business to spread our risk - great, let's start by sabotaging the successful part of it...

Those naughty boys and girls within the finance industry have only themselves to blame. How can any Government fail to act upon the revelations of wrongdoing other than to crackdown with regulation and policy changes. It was always going to happen and likely plenty more in the pipeline.

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otolith said:

crankedup said:

otolith said:

We need to diversify our business to spread our risk - great, let's start by sabotaging the successful part of it...

Those naughty boys and girls within the finance industry have only themselves to blame. How can any Government fail to act upon the revelations of wrongdoing other than to crackdown with regulation and policy changes. It was always going to happen and likely plenty more in the pipeline.

I don't care whether they have themselves, the regulators or Gordon Brown himself to blame. Making policy which impacts negatively on this country's economy is stupid. People should look at a big bonus and think "great, the tax man has had 45% of that, that's a bit less tax needed from me" instead of "rich bd, I'd drive him to the airport". Just moronic.

Its was the 'big bonus' which has helped create the the problem currently being addressed. Nobody can deny the wrong-doing by some in the industry, criminal activities in order to cheat into receiving a 'big bonus' has been the major problem, this is the other side of the coin to the system. The 'envy' excuse is no longer valid.

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May I recommend that posters still in partial denial, or others just interested in the facts regarding the Global Bank crash of 2008 look back at STORYVILLE - INSIDE JOB. This television program offers an forensic detailed insight into the culpability of banks in causing a financial crash costing tens of millions of people to lose their jobs and homes.

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turbobloke said:

Also read the Clinton era documentation "The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream" and note the explicit HUD targets for subprime ninja mortgage lending which were ramped up year on year alongside actions by Clinton's enforcer, Achtenberg which ensured over many years that mortgages were given to people who would never be able to afford the payments. These products were repackaged and sold around the world including the UK within Brown's ineffective tripartite regulatory system. Ratings agencies and bank governance were at fault also but egalitarian delusion was the starting gun for the crunch and crash.

All part of the incisive STORYVILLE, I agree regulation was a joke, hence the need to ramp up those regulations. Decades working under such lack of supervisory regulation brought the World's finance to its knees, I wouldn't imagine anyone wants to re-visit that scenario. Stupid Politicians combined with greedy employees in the finance industry - no wonder it all hit the fan.

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Derek Chevalier said:

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I wouldn't imagine anyone wants to re-visit that scenario. Stupid Politicians

You don't think it will happen again

http://www.helptobuy.org.uk/

Ho ho

I didn't say that I didn't think it would happen again, I said I would imagine that nobody wants to re-visit that scenario.

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otolith said:

crankedup said:

Its was the 'big bonus' which has helped create the the problem currently being addressed. Nobody can deny the wrong-doing by some in the industry, criminal activities in order to cheat into receiving a 'big bonus' has been the major problem, this is the other side of the coin to the system. The 'envy' excuse is no longer valid.

That's a very simplistic view of what happened, based largely on a desire to believe in a morality tale.

Explain further please, what tale do you refer and why?

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legzr1 said:

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All part of the incisive STORYVILLE, I agree regulation was a joke, hence the need to ramp up those regulations. Decades working under such lack of supervisory regulation brought the World's finance to its knees, I wouldn't imagine anyone wants to re-visit that scenario. Stupid Politicians combined with greedy employees in the finance industry - no wonder it all hit the fan.

Seen it - good bit of TV.

No doubt it will be ignored by the banking apologists yelling the same old blinkered hyperbole. (Actually, I see that's happening already)

Indeed, but it has amusement value at least these people making daft statements in a vain attempt to excuse crooks and pedlars, oppps sorry bankers.

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vonuber said:

It would be nice if some of them managed to pay for their trainfare.

and then we are told not to call them lying cheating a*seholes riceless:

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otolith said:

crankedup said:

otolith said:

crankedup said:

Its was the 'big bonus' which has helped create the the problem currently being addressed. Nobody can deny the wrong-doing by some in the industry, criminal activities in order to cheat into receiving a 'big bonus' has been the major problem, this is the other side of the coin to the system. The 'envy' excuse is no longer valid.

That's a very simplistic view of what happened, based largely on a desire to believe in a morality tale.

Explain further please, what tale do you refer and why?

There were multiple factors in precipitating the financial crisis, many of them unrelated to the matter of how much workers in the banking industry are paid. You focus on the matter of bonuses and high pay because, I suspect, you have already decided that they are immoral and the narrative accords with your values.

Looking

Well yes we know all about the 'multiple factors' as fully described in aforementioned investigative program. Now that program was not produced/directed by myself, in fact I had nothing to do with it at all, except watch in utter dismay. Your diversionary efforts are not good enough I would like to read more from your critique of the all revealing program., rather than your focus on what you believe to be my own values.
ps we know that much of wrong-doing within the financial industry has much to do with bonus payments.

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turbobloke said:

legzr1 said:

crankedup said:

Indeed, but it has amusement value at least these people making daft statements in a vain attempt to excuse crooks and pedlars, oppps sorry bankers.

It's hilarious.

What adds to the fact is that most can't even see it - the odd few that can continue to amuse by squirming and deliberating missing the point.

Ignore Libor, attack Labour.

Piss poor and funny.

Vague armwaving waffle with generalist accusations and nothing to back them up, as they have no basis.

Nobody has ignored Libor, and there's more than this thread to show it.

The only people making daft statements are those who indulge in scapegoating while strategically ignoring the political root cause of the crash and crunch, and the roles of a number of non-banking entities including ratings agencies and regulatory authorirties in seeing it through.

There are several PH threads where the financial crisis has been covered in detail where the same simplistic accusations were aired and dealt with.

After seeing 13 years of Labour ruin the country with wealth gaps and inequality increased, then 3 to 4 years later the economy recovering strongly via Plan A with the Conservatives driving economic policy while carrying the walking dead weight of the LibDems, bouts of diversionary banker bashing are only to be expected.

For a spot of déja vu try these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

We might just get back to discussing the efficacy of the 7 year itch.

Personalize, which is always your M.O. when on your back foot. Until people accept that the finance industry had a major part to play in the 2008 crash we cannot hope to move forward. But then again I think the people who matter have tore the rug from the under the banking industry and giving it a good shake to rid all the detritus. Difficult to imagine any person, on the underground for example,extolling the virtues of the finance industry leading up to the 2008 crash and revelations post crash. I don't think any persons are suggesting the crash was solely the finance industries fault, but certainly a large % can be fairly laid at their door.

Strange why you are unable to grasp the obvious, its all detailed in the program in all its full tawdry detail. So drop the personal diversionary tactics and lets read your analysis as to why you consider the aforementioned forensic detailed investigation to be dismissed/described by you in such a way as to be at odds with financial reality.

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otolith said:

Television is dumbed down manipulative crap. Take everything with large rocks of salt and do your own research.

Oh dear! are you including the 'Storyville' Inside Story documentary or are you just annoyed with Europe with how it views the banking industry?
Your likely a decent honest hard-working person caught up in the same industry THAT HAS RUINED TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLES LIVES.

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sidicks said:

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Well yes we know all about the 'multiple factors' as fully described in aforementioned investigative program. Now that program was not produced/directed by myself, in fact I had nothing to do with it at all, except watch in utter dismay. Your diversionary efforts are not good enough I would like to read more from your critique of the all revealing program., rather than your focus on what you believe to be my own values.
ps we know that much of wrong-doing within the financial industry has much to do with bonus payments.

As ever, what you actually 'know' and what you think you 'know' are two entirely different things..

Just note that you are not defending the finance industry and all its wrong-doing over the past decades. Just another excuse 'you don't know what your talking about' we are all innocent type remark.

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otolith said:

There must be some area that you have enough expertise in to have witnessed first hand how incomplete, simplistic and partisan TV coverage tends to be. If you get your opinions from the TV, you may as well read the Daily Mail.

As it happens, I do have some professional knowledge of what's going on in banking, particularly with respect to transparency and risk and reducing the likelihood of similar problems happening again. I'm happy to say that there are much more useful things going on than rabble appeasing banker-bashing, and I'm pleased to be doing my bit to help facilitate them - though if they are driven out of the country, I'll be out of a job and I'll have equity in a failed business.

Read the title and OP, we all want what you want, although I would add honesty and integrity alongside transparency / risk.
Its only the banker bashing and public disdain that seems to have motivated the actions that you mention are now on-going. Might add that your correct it is time to stop banker bashing and I expect that when all of the massive scandals have been aired in public. Sooner the better.

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In the World of turbobloke nobody has the correct answers but he himself. The very idea behind the extension for retention of bonuses is simply an assist in time value for investigation purposes. Seven years is deemed to be a sensible time requirement for wrong-doing to be uncovered. No rocket science involved.
Seems to me that the Authorities are on the correct track in reigning in the bad boys. Of course the honest persons are equally affected.