Waste in the NHS

[technodup]

This probably isn't the type of post you thought it was...

I've recently (and for the first time in any meaningful sense) made use of the NHS. Most of this year I've been at GPs, scans, consultants and physios to identify and treat what I now know is a type of arthritis. It's likely that I'll be going onto a drug to be administered by myself with a pen, similar to diabetics. It was when the consultant mentioned it was one of the more expensive ones I had a Google... turns out it's £762/m, or £9k odd per year.

Now when we hear about the NHS on the news, QT or from politicians it's all about billions here, billions there, %age cuts or increases and the 'rights' of patients to the service. None of which means anything to the man in the street. We know billions are big, but neither a £1bn cut nor a £130bn budget is relatable to Joe Average on £30k. But £762 per month is. An MRI on a knee is £360 at my local private hospital. A knee replacement £12k. These numbers are immediately comparable to rent or a mortgage payment, or to annual salary (and to how much they pay in each month).

Every NHS person I've spoken to has stories of the sense of entitlement people have towards the service. Probably not helped by the fact I'm in Scotland and can pop (or waste) as many pills as I want and never pay a penny. Is it not time that we are told how much treatments actually cost, rather than believing everything is 'free'? Could that not help reduce missed appointments, wasted drugs and unwarranted demands?

Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?

[technodup]

KrissKross said:

By the way are you going to need new knees?

fking hope not. The pills and/or steroids seem to be working for now.

I took a crutch back today. A private physio gave me it but only had one so I figured someone else might need it. That should be standard practice.

Murph7355 said:

Whilst it might be worth a try, I doubt it will make any difference.

Many would have said the same about drink driving, or seatbelts, or smoking. Yes there will always be a minority of aholes but I think the sums are so huge even a small dent in the waste would be worthwhile.

[technodup]

chemistry said:

technodup said:

Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?

Good idea OP. Why not take action to see if you can make this happen; write to your MP, etc.?

That would be Nicola Sturgeon as I'm in Scotland.

And in the unlikely chance she liked the idea I wouldn't have her taking credit for it. The rancid wee cow. But leaving her manky politics aside it can't be right that I get the monthly pill combination below, plus (so far)

X-Ray x2
MRI x2
CT Scan x1
Lung function test x1
weekly blood tests
consultant appointments x3
GP appointments x6?
physio appointments x2

and 2 more MRI to come before I go on the £762/m drug. Literally without paying a penny, not even a prescription charge. In other circles it's understood that if something is given away free there is less value attached to it compared if you have to pay for it. I'm not suggesting we pay (that's for another day) but an indication of the cost might go some way to reset people's thoughts on their 'rights' around the 'free' NHS.

Not to mention I guess most people will also be on sick pay, PIP, DLA or something else. I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.



As it happens I know of someone who is involved with health campaigns in Scotland, I might just tap him up for a contact.

[technodup]

Frybywire said:

technodup said:

I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.

All those pills in the pic are generics and cost bugger all as they are all out of patent.

I think you somewhat miss the point. Not least of which the number of people I've taken time with to get to the stage of actually getting the pills in the first place. And the scanners, and the fancy new buildings and...

All the things, many of which on their own cost 'bugger all', when added up come to £130bn.

I've no idea how many people a GP sees in a day, but very roughly if he's on £100k and sees 12 that's £33. And thousands of people don't show up. So waiting times are longer and the service is forever 'in crisis'. All I'm suggesting is we put more emphasis on the responsibilities which should go hand in hand with the rights.

y attitudes like 'they cost bugger all anyway' is precisely what needs to change imo.

[technodup]

jjlynn27 said:

You are the one missing the point. 'bugger all' doesn't add up to 130bn. Bugger all adds up to bugger all. JH doing dumbass things and getting docs to leave the profession to be replaced by very expensive locums, that's what is adding up. 'bugger all' adds up to rounding error.

And there we have it, someone else's fault.

People on here rattle on about tip run cars all the time. It's the same principle. Low value, low concern. Except in the NHS it's not low value, it's 'free' and consequently many people don't give a fk.

All I'm suggesting is a bit of education might improve users behaviour and ultimately save a few quid.

[technodup]

grumbledoak said:

You are missing the point others are making: no-one with the power to change the NHS wants to save any money. That is not what they are there for. It is not what the NHS is there for. That's why it cannot be "fixed"; to their mind it isn't "broken".

I'm not necessarily talking net savings though. I'm talking about savings which can be utilised elsewhere in the system. And they're forever bemoaning a lack of cash, at every level.

And it doesn't necessarily need to be the NHS doing the pushing either. In the last few decades governments of both colours have largely stopped us smoking and drink driving. Why, for example could there not be a standard £60 fine for not showing at an NHS appointment? Like a speeding ticket. They know our name and address.

Charities are forever pushing the 'just £5 a month can save 20 kids from starvation' line. Why can't some government body say 'every missed appointment costs £x and has consequence y'?

As I said in my OP my main point is that people have no clue, so act accordingly. And why wouldn't they, until they're educated about it?

[technodup]

968 said:

The hospitals/GP surgery already do this but patients don't care. .

In fairness there is a poster which says 'wasted medicines cost the NHS £X per year' in the GP waiting room. Trouble is, like virtually any spare bit of NHS wall there are a hundred other posters jumbled around it which means the message (of any of them) gets lost.

PurpleTurtle said:

Every appointment I have I get a reminder text saying 'non-attendance costs the NHS £XXX.XX'... good to see them doing this.

That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. I get a reminder text but no associated cost on it.

[technodup]

spaximus said:

There are thousands of stories of waste in the NHS, but I have never worked anywhere where there is not waste always for private companies. The NHS does a million things well and a few thousand wrong we only concentrate on the things it gets wrong, sadly.

Which is why the OP was not about the NHS wasting money, it was about patients wasting it.

I should have known it would turn into a bash the NHS thread.

[technodup]

rossi1001 said:

Humira changed my life but I am aware of how expensive it is and do feel some what guilty? I know it had to be approved by the trust pharmacy director because my mums her PA and she had to avoid the meeting given the obvious conflict of interest!

To the op push the consultant to get off methotrexate as soon as possible. It barely touched my arthritis symptoms and the side effects are awful. Couple of beers and you'll feel like you've been on an all night bender the next morning!

She first spoke about Adilimumub but I think it's now to be Golimumab.

Can't say I've had any side effects from the methotrexate tbh, although I have been avoiding alcohol even more than usual. It took a while but I feel about 90% now. CRPs still off the chart though.