How deep is the rabbit hole?
Discussion
Study reveals signs of "Manipulating Social Media to Undermine Democracy" in 18 countries
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/freedo...
https://freedomhouse.org/article/new-report-freedo...
I work in IT, specifically with teams that build very large scale websites, a bank, gaming(betting), a supermarket. There are a few privacy holdouts but they are few and far between. Everybody is leaking information online every day and it is being used to manipulate you. This happens commercially with advertising, it is inevitable that this will be used politically. It is important that more people understand how this happens.
You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
paul.deitch said:
Yes but I use adblockers and never see the ads, well most of them. So do you think that adblockers are effective or are they just making me feel good?
Mostly feel good. Adblockers stop adverts being shown. They do not stop the tracking, there are other plugins and approaches that can limit that, none will be entirely effective if you are online. Do you have them installed on every communications device you own? Including your smartphone! Do all your family, all your friends, do the same. No, members of the public will always be playing catchup.That is why I put the focus on being wise to how it can be used.
The solution is not technical, it is social.
That leaking of data is a field of study in computer science, it is called information entropy. In lay terms, the more complex a communications system becomes the more information leaks out of it, information wants to be free, a meme so true, it has become a bit cliché.
There is an upside, information entropy also works in progressive ways with increasing whistle blowing leaks and demands for increasing transparency.
The truth will out in the end, my grandfather used to say many decades ago.
AWS is the Amazon platform mentioned earlier
"Massive US military social media spying archive left wide open in AWS S3 buckets"
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/17/us_milita...
Crooks are also getting into the game for their own reasons.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/17/fake_news...
Breadvan72 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theorywc98 said:
i think most people will realise this happens, to a greater or lesser degree anyway. what are the actual problems it creates for the individual ? i don't do facebook, twitter or any of the similar platforms . i only visit a few specialist interest websites and have never knowingly purchased anything as a result of targeted advertising . i don't mind a third party knowing my online browsing habits ,it is useless information as far as i am concerned.
I have the same hope, that most people will realise but I have big doubts raised daily, both online and IRL. There was a recent thread in CG&S about a very obvious phishing/scam email. The OP and most contributors to the thread simply did not get it, a small minority did and called it out, only to receive responses along the lines of 'I think that is ok', blah blah gut feelings, vs knowledge. I have friends that are canny wheeler dealers/horse traders when face to face, but absolutely clueless to online scams.Your post shows more awareness than those posts, however..
You say i don't do facebook, twitter or any of the similar platforms. Most if not all of those other sites you visit will use the tools provided by some of those companies. I already mentioned that PH uses Google Analytics and nearly every site on the web does. PH also uses Amazon's AWS platform. So that is two of those organisations that will be tracking the you. If you have a smart phone, that is two more, your network provider and Apple or Google, same with SmartTV(Manufacturer) or STB(Sky).
You say you've 'never knowingly purchased anything as a result of targeted advertising' the key word there is knowingly. I would bet good money you have, but it would be impossible to prove one way or another. I cannot explain in any detail, the psychology of sales, marketing, propaganda. What I do know, having been party to the metrics/statistics, is that it works.
An example. Generic marketing to existing customers by email has very low conversion rates in the region of a few percent at the very best. A targeted email offering a deal on something they've previously searched/viewed, the conversion rate is much higher, offering a similar alternative also has high conversion rate. e.g. Playstation for people that viewed X-Boxes.
plasticpig said:
Sorry but that is absolute b
ks. Information entropy is part of information theory and has nothing to do with what you'r suggesting.
ks. Information entropy is part of information theory and has nothing to do with what you'r suggesting.
That link proves Leaked entropy IS information content.
There are two types of people in this world those that understand the original science and those that think bluster and a link Wikipedia will get them by. Why not prove you are not the latter by levelling a specific critique and adding something other than bluster.
All systems continuously leak entropy, they leak information. It is leaked at the particle physics level of and all the way to the top of the technology stack. That little fact is a cornerstone of PKI, cryptanalysis and IT security.
fblm said:
As a technical matter how is this known? I'd have thought the Russian state and its agents were proficient at hiding their physical location or language clues in propaganda no?
Yes, but they are not perfect, they are humans they make mistakes. You probably don't know, but one of the first cracks in enigma was provided by a simple human failure by German operators. They would double key a specific letter at the start of each message. This gave the cryptanalysists two characters of some plausible plain text and two encrypted characters; other leaks were long winded titles in signatures giving known plain text for part of the message. This is the leaked entropy, I've mentioned elsewhere.The reality is there are many ways of leaking info and as many attacks as IT security researchers looking at it. Traffic analysis, language and timezone encodings, browser fingerprinting, posting patterns to name a few.
They could and probably will improve their counter-measures, they still will not remain completely hidden from dedicated IT security researchers.
Atomic12C said:
Also, is it not beyond the scope of assumption that equally there will be many bots and fake accounts set up by ANY vested interest or pressure group trying to further their cause?
So Russia is just one of many groups/organisation/individuals etc etc etc within such a set.
The west will be just as active in this field as the east.
That is pretty much the point I was raising by the thread title.So Russia is just one of many groups/organisation/individuals etc etc etc within such a set.
The west will be just as active in this field as the east.
Previously we've known these techniques were used commercially, we've thought the vast majority are only trying to subvert our wallets. The rabbit hole is just who else is trying to subvert democracy, liberty, or what else?
We won't stop the miss-information happening, which I why people to be educated to the shape of the threat.
The Germans eventually closed that
in enigma caused by double keying, but by then it was too late.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff