Are labour antisemitic?

[irocfan]

Another day, another problem for a Jewish labour mp.

This really is getting quite worrying - I know we can laugh at the loony left, but when they stand a good chance of forming the next government with compo as the figurehead it is surely something that should concern us all?

A labour councillor recently made some comments about Jews drinking human blood.
2 Jewish MPs facing "show trials" in a comparative nano-second (look at how long it took to deliberate the Livingston issue).
Arbeit macht frei posted by another councillor on twitter.
A call for a final solution from yet another....

[irocfan]

The Surveyor said:

Why 'under siege' now, under this Tory government?

because this government is sooooooo piss poor that they can see Stig of the Dump becoming PM despite his extremist backers?

[irocfan]

Leroy902 said:

This card jews play, anything said against jews is 'anti semitic' is getting bloody boring.

you're a member of momentum AICMFP.

[irocfan]

bhstewie said:

Oops they did it again https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45014771

WTF makes you actually think that way

is he now going to face a disciplinary like Hodge and Austin?

[irocfan]

gadgetmac said:

It’s not deflection it’s comparison surely.

Being as this whole thread is a Tory supporters wet dream then a little balance isn’t to be derided.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/27-times-tor...

and that is disgraceful - hopefully, the people involved were brought to task

[irocfan]

bhstewie said:

He's a little treasure isn't he https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45027582

now change corbyn to May, change hambollah to someone who champions the good things that colonialism has brought, then grab your popcorn and watch the ensuing ststorm.

[irocfan]

psi310398 said:

irocfan said:

now change corbyn to May, change hambollah to someone who champions the good things that colonialism has brought, then grab your popcorn and watch the ensuing ststorm.

Humour us, please.

Ignore what other people are or are not doing. We know that there are nasty people there, too. They are not the subject of this thread. By all means open one up on antediluvian and/or racist attitudes in another party.

The issue here is the Labour leadership's attitude to antisemitism.

Are JC and co acting properly in regard to dealing with antisemitism within Labour?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

I think that my post starting this thread should make my position clear - for the avoidance of doubt, however, I think that the labour party as they stand are exceedingly antisemitic

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

LoonyTunes said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, is the word Nazi when applied to any future Israeli government - no matter how brutal they are to the palestinians - forever off limits because they were once the victims of the Nazi's?

I mean if an extreme right wing nutjob became Israeli Prime Minister and ordered the slaughter of hundreds of Palestinians for whatever reason (hiding terrorists etc) and generally acted in a brutal manner can we never call them Nazi's - but we can feel free to call (say) North Korea's Kim a Nazi?

No, Nazis were a thing, they happened, they exist no more.

There is not a need to use that label in any modern context as other more accurate comparisons are available. Its use is pure ignorance/need to "make effect". It is one of the new shock words used endlessly.

But if it walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi and acts like a Nazi...then whats the more accurate comparison?

what about calling them Rougists after the Kymher Rouge? Why wouldn't that work, after all the Kymher viewed certain parts of the populace as being undesirable. Is it possible that calling them nazis is more demeaning to Jews?

[irocfan]

Countdown said:

That's an excellent comparison. Assad is generally recognised as a butcher for what he's done in Syria. However Netanyahu does the same thing in Gaza but it's OK because he's only defending israel's inalienable right to exist. It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

TBH it's a poor comparison, Assad doesn't care about incidental casualties. The Israelis may not be your favourite group but they're one of the most careful countries in that region WRT collateral damage

[irocfan]

James_B said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

JezzaNacht

Paint Pounds symbols on their windows, make them sew on Dollar badges (in yellow ?) to their jackets ?

I can’t think of any politician in recent times making such overt threats against a section of the population. He has a lot of hate in him.

nonono you don't understand

1. WeAreCorbyn still trending at no. 2. What an amazing result. Corbyn is here to stay. Has a politician ever received such an outpouring of love? @jeremycorbyn

this is what you're looking at - he's virtually become a messianic figure. Bloody terrifying

[irocfan]

indeed len "the " mcclusky seems to think that the Jews are being oversensitive - I mean it's not like anyone tried to exterminate them within living memory...

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

irocfan said:

indeed len "the " mcclusky seems to think that the Jews are being oversensitive - I mean it's not like anyone tried to exterminate them within living memory...

Hmmm...I may be wrong...but I don't think that was the Labour party. Although I'm sure sure some on here would like to pin that on them as well.

Correct it wasn't the labour party - it does show, however, why they may be a tad sensitive

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

Have you read what they've actually done? What more would you like them to do?

They should have adopted the Holocaust association wording in full and most of this ststorm could've been avoided

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

Labour has created it's own code which it feels better suits the anti-semitism issue. It will likely adopt the IHRA's definition at some point but the two codes are almost only separated by the examples given of anti-semitism in the codes.

Seven of IHRA’s examples are incorporated word for word in Labour’s list. So, the row boils down to: why not the remaining four? Because the IHRA intends its examples as mere indications of what “might” and “could” manifest antisemitism, whereas Labour’s code says its examples are “likely” to be deemed antisemitic. Labour says that this shift – from mere possibility to likelihood – strengthens the role of the examples and makes them easier to apply as guidelines.

Should Labour change the code to exactly mirror the IHRA's code do you think the anti-semitism accusations will disappear???

I don't.

Labour says it's code in fact enhances the IHRA document. For instance, it adds the use of derogatory terms for Jewish people such as “kike” or “yid”, plus stereotypical physical depictions of Jewish people, and equating Jews with “the ruling class”.

And here is the problem - labour (and corby in particular) seem to think that they know better than Jews (and indeed the rest of the world) what is/isn't offensive/upsetting to Jews....

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

They would argue their definitions go further and add more protection for Jews. It may not be what you want exactly but if you feel that is actually anti-semitic then I can't agree.

Once again - that's the issue. The Jews themselves don't agree with that perspective I'd say that their opinion is more valid than anyone else's

[irocfan]

LoonyTunes said:

You can't even follow your own argument

You wanted him to say that he "supported zero tolerance for anti-semitism within the Party".

My link shows him doing that.

We are done now

Wow, said like a proper primary school teacher. That'll learn him!

[irocfan]

jfire said:

All this misdirected support can only really give momentum to anti Jewish sentiment.

not sure if intentional but I had to laugh

[irocfan]

warch said:

Russian Troll Bot said:

Where did he staunchly criticise the Republicans and say he regretted his association with Hamas?

He did not single out the IRA (you've misquoted what I said there) but he criticised all sides involved in the Troubles
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...

As for regretting calling Hamas friends try,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...

fair play on admitting that he shouldn't have called them friends - however one would imagine that by his time of life he shouldn't need to think about the repercussions of such language. Twunt

[irocfan]

gadgetmac said:

ukwill said:

gadgetmac said:

Yeah, hamas are no angels thats for sure. But to say they are out to kill ALL jews (genocide) is equally wrong.

And as history has shown, that entirely depends on who you speak to in Hamas.

During the war many Brits would have been saying similar about the Germans.

so once again the Nazi comparison is being made

[irocfan]

clockworks said:

As much as I love a bit of Corbyn (and Labour) -bashing, I really don't see what all the fuss was about. From what I've seen on the news today, the row revolved around Labour not adopting the holocaust remembrance guidelines 100%. They left out the example of comparing Israeli government actions to those of nazis being an antisemitic act.

To me, that seems fair enough. While it may be in bad taste, what's antisemitic about such comparisons? Israel, like just about every other state, has done some not very nice things.

Media are now banging on about the inclusion of a freedom of speech clause being a way of getting around it (which it is, but isn't freedom of speech an inalienable right in a free society?). Banning free speech in a political party would be the start of a very slippery slope.

Oh, and I don't consider myself to be antisemitic. My late father was Jewish.

as I see it the issue is that Israel is held to a higher/different standard to any other country in the world - it will be interesting to see if that now changes. It'll also be interesting to see if some truly vile comments by some of the NEC will be investigated....

I'll not hold my breath