Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France
Discussion
In response to the French government’s plans to increase duty on fossil fuels particularly diesel it seems that a National day of protest is being planned on 17/11
Protesters wearing “yellow vests” have pledged to bring all the roads in France to a standstill
Campaigners are saying that it unfairly hits rural communities as there is no alternative to diesel cars
Seems like tomorrow might be quite interesting in France
Protesters wearing “yellow vests” have pledged to bring all the roads in France to a standstill
Campaigners are saying that it unfairly hits rural communities as there is no alternative to diesel cars
Seems like tomorrow might be quite interesting in France
SAS Tom said:
Surely petrol is an alternative to diesel to people in rural communities?
Diesel used to be about 15c a litre cheaper than petrol .. now it’s the same price Diesel cars go twice as far on a litre than a petrol car
Living in a rural area petrol cars are not really an option
Where I am diesel is 15c less than petrol and I can get 55 mpg out of it .. when it’s a 40 mile round trip to the shop it’s a big deal
Hereward said:
Explain this bit to me, please.
I live in an EU country where diesel is 15 to 20c less per litre than petrolIts 35 miles to the nearest main town for shopping
Major hospitals are 120 miles away ..
It’s a 16 mile round trip to the junior school
I have two diesel cars .. both do a lot of miles ... I can get 55mpg out of the family bus
Why on earth would I swop to a petrol family bus that I’d struggle to get 30mpg out of ?
So .. I can really see why rural French folk have got upset
Watching this unfold makes me wonder where it is going
Lots of middle aged and seemingly respectable people being interviewed.. their anger is palpable
People saying this is not going away .. that Macron is a dictator and ruler for the rich
People drawing parallels with 1968
It doesn’t look like these protests are going to end soon
Lots of middle aged and seemingly respectable people being interviewed.. their anger is palpable
People saying this is not going away .. that Macron is a dictator and ruler for the rich
People drawing parallels with 1968
It doesn’t look like these protests are going to end soon
Helicopter123 said:
Earthdweller said:
Helicopter123 said:
Macron unpopular and up against it. Out of touch and elitist. He has to back down and cut taxes but this will destroy is presidency.
And possibly the EU ? With the issues in Greece, Italy, Hungary and now France and Mutti being dethroned in Germany by a resurgent right wing
Interesting times
Helicopter123 said:
Earthdweller said:
Helicopter123 said:
Earthdweller said:
Helicopter123 said:
Macron unpopular and up against it. Out of touch and elitist. He has to back down and cut taxes but this will destroy is presidency.
And possibly the EU ? With the issues in Greece, Italy, Hungary and now France and Mutti being dethroned in Germany by a resurgent right wing
Interesting times
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/20...
Or polls showing the right ahead of macron
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/04/french-far-right-o...
Edited by Earthdweller on Saturday 1st December 23:31
Derek Smith said:
The French system of law enforcement differs from that of the UK, but they have both tactical and strategic reserves in the case of riots
Unfortunately Derek the reserves in the U.K. are negligible The Met has around 5000 riot trainer officers of which about 700 are in the Territorial Support Group
The rest of the country has around 10000 riot trained officers of which only a few hundred are trained to Level 1 (TSG standard)
Many forces have drastically cut the numbers of P.O. trained officers in recent years and decimated their standalone PO Units
GMP for instance has cut its Tactical Aid Unit from four PSU’s down to one
Events such as football matches now require inter force mutual aid, which a few years ago was unheard of
Put bluntly the U.K. does not have the civil capacity to deal with widespread disorder that it did even in 2011 following the Duggan shooting
What I know of Macrons energy policy seems absurd
France is most stable and secure country in the EU
80% of it energy comes from its nuclear plants .. which macron intends to close
15% comes from hydroelectric sources
Only 5% comes from all other sources
How much of France needs to be covered in wind farms to replicate the lost nuclear supplies ?
Does he really want France to be reliant on Russian gas like Germany ?
France is most stable and secure country in the EU
80% of it energy comes from its nuclear plants .. which macron intends to close
15% comes from hydroelectric sources
Only 5% comes from all other sources
How much of France needs to be covered in wind farms to replicate the lost nuclear supplies ?
Does he really want France to be reliant on Russian gas like Germany ?
otolith said:
Davidonly said:
otolith said:
The fuel taxes aren't about revenue, Macron is doing the Green thing that we had protestors in London demanding of the government last week.
I would guess the London protestors were mostly well-off / academic / lefty nutters? The 'silent majority' are not represented by them - whereas I suspect that more 'normal' people will sympathise with the protests in France (and Beligium).Where both my wife and I grew up our fathers used to hunt rabbits for food due to shortages and rationing
They appreciate a warm home and food on the table bought in shops .. believe me
Halb]erek Smith said:
...During the last (very rare?) metropolitan riots there was a great deal of criticism regarding the lack of numbers of police in immediate response. One wondered if it was assumed police officers were kept in vans all over the country ready to respond.../quote]
YOu mean, they're not?!
They don’t even have the vans let alone the officers to crew them YOu mean, they're not?!
Or drive them because most young cops don’t have C1 and D1 licences and the forces are relying on older cops because they can’t affird the training .. and they are retiring/leaving in droves
its also kicking off on the French Indian Ocean island of Reunion, which has been one of the flashpoints of the protests.
tear gas used to repel demonstrators around the island's sole container port in the west, which has been blocked for 15 days, leading to shortages of imported wheat, medication and other necessities.
tear gas used to repel demonstrators around the island's sole container port in the west, which has been blocked for 15 days, leading to shortages of imported wheat, medication and other necessities.
PositronicRay said:
Earthdweller said:
Unions are now calling for a National day of protests on the 14th with the CGT public sector union leading the calls
I'm surprised they didn't call it for Thursday. that way members would be able to book Friday as a "bridging day" 
One of my favourite moments re DeGaulle
Ask him about the cemeteries, Dean!"
In 1966 upon being told that President Charles DeGaulle had taken France out of NATO and that all U.S. troops must be evacuated off of French soil President Lyndon Johnson mentioned to Secretary of State Dean Rusk that he should ask DeGaulle about the Americans buried in France. Dean implied in his answer that that DeGaulle should not really be asked that in the meeting at which point President Johnson then told Secretary of State Dean Rusk:
"Ask him about the cemeteries Dean!"
That made it into a Presidential Order so he had to ask President DeGaulle.
So at end of the meeting Dean did ask DeGaulle if his order to remove all U.S. troops from French soil also included the 60,000+ soldiers buried in France from World War I and World War II.
DeGaulle, embarrassed, got up and left and never answered.
Ask him about the cemeteries, Dean!"
In 1966 upon being told that President Charles DeGaulle had taken France out of NATO and that all U.S. troops must be evacuated off of French soil President Lyndon Johnson mentioned to Secretary of State Dean Rusk that he should ask DeGaulle about the Americans buried in France. Dean implied in his answer that that DeGaulle should not really be asked that in the meeting at which point President Johnson then told Secretary of State Dean Rusk:
"Ask him about the cemeteries Dean!"
That made it into a Presidential Order so he had to ask President DeGaulle.
So at end of the meeting Dean did ask DeGaulle if his order to remove all U.S. troops from French soil also included the 60,000+ soldiers buried in France from World War I and World War II.
DeGaulle, embarrassed, got up and left and never answered.
A problem for Macron as DeGaulle summed up France
“How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?
I have come to the conclusion that politics are too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
“How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?
I have come to the conclusion that politics are too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
Macron has kind of capitulated but it doesn’t seem to be the end of his woes
His bribe to the yellow vests is expected to cost the economy €10bn +
The deficit is already running at 2.9% and this give away is expected to push to France outiside the EU’s fiscal rules which may find the EU refusing to agree to it much like they have done with the Italian budget
Meanwhile as the students demonstrate nationally today against Macron’s changes to the education system and more protests are planned for the weekend he has asked businesses to pay staff a Xmas bonus which they must fund but won’t be taxed
Edited to add that FR24 are now reporting that Italy has raised objections to Macron’s give away saying deficit rules should apply equally to all
His bribe to the yellow vests is expected to cost the economy €10bn +
The deficit is already running at 2.9% and this give away is expected to push to France outiside the EU’s fiscal rules which may find the EU refusing to agree to it much like they have done with the Italian budget
Meanwhile as the students demonstrate nationally today against Macron’s changes to the education system and more protests are planned for the weekend he has asked businesses to pay staff a Xmas bonus which they must fund but won’t be taxed
Edited to add that FR24 are now reporting that Italy has raised objections to Macron’s give away saying deficit rules should apply equally to all
Edited by Earthdweller on Tuesday 11th December 16:14
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