Shamima Begum...

[biggbn]

The crackpot extremists now have another martyr for their cause and another common enemy. Why didn't we just bring the traitor home, take her child from her and jail her, set a precedent for others?

[biggbn]

That is the point I am making? Her kid is now a martyr to the cause and the British government a bigger enemy than it was thanks to the home secretary's posturing.

[biggbn]

Getragdogleg said:

The point that is being (purposely) missed by those who say "we should have done something" is that even if we had set the wheels in motion to have done something the situation developed faster than we could have done something.

Unless the Govt. had sent a team out the same day the news broke here that she wanted to come home it was all going to happen like it did.

It is simply not possible to complain to a journalist and the Govt. will swoop in and rescue you from your own bad choices.

Fair point man

[biggbn]

BlackLabel said:

biggbn said:

That is the point I am making? Her kid is now a martyr to the cause and the British government a bigger enemy than it was thanks to the home secretary's posturing.

What cause?

No one cares - ISIS types care less about her than the British public do. Until the Times found her she was a nobody. The only people who care are folks like Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn.

You can't see that this gives them a cause celebre?

[biggbn]

Just to point out, am not claiming my point to be correct, it's just my feelings on the matter. One can equally argue that had they brought her back, jailed her and her kid died in our care system, she would equally become cause celebre for the fundamentalists. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I will confess, I like debating these points, I am a philosopher and love seeing the thought processes at work. As a scientific friend pointed out, we should ALWAYS listen to the questions philosophers ask...but rarely the answers they provide.


On that note am off to work. Peace, gbn X

[biggbn]

Dindoit said:

Pistonheads: Islam is a barbaric medieval cult.

Also, Pistonheads: I don’t care about the death of a baby. I bet there wasn’t even a kid and if there was she deserved it.

Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing.

[biggbn]

Down and out said:

biggbn said:

Dindoit said:

edited by moderator.

Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing.

Why click the thread?

I started it...

Edited by dinosaur.mod on Sunday 10th March 15:34

[biggbn]

otolith said:

biggbn said:

I started it...

You invaded Iraq?

/Fawlty

Have a thanks in lieu of a thanks button!

[biggbn]

My thread was not to aportion blame, I certainly do not believe you can retrospectively attribute blame on a maybe/might have/could have platform. My thread was because I wonder why we did not bring her back, take her child and throw her in jail. I feel this would have sent a clearer and harsher message to other 'dispossessed disenfranchised' individuals who wish to leave our countries with intent to harm them then return under a flag of adopted convenience.

Edited for reason below!!

Edited by biggbn on Sunday 10th March 15:01

[biggbn]

Jazzy Jag said:

biggbn said:

My thread was not to abortion blame,
.

Hell of a time for predictive text to kick in..

Jeezus had not noticed, thanks brother man

[biggbn]

Exige77 said:

biggbn said:

My thread was not to abortion blame, I certainly do not believe you can retrospectively attribute blame on a maybe/might have/could have platform. My thread was because I wonder why we did not bring her back, take her child and throw her in jail. I feel this would have sent a clearer and harsher message to other 'dispossessed disenfranchised' individuals who wish to leave our countries with intent to harm them then return under a flag of adopted convenience.

What clearer message can there be than “we don’t want you here, you are not welcome”

While the usual do gooders start saying we should take her back, she’s a victim, we need to understand her motivation for going, the message is completely unclear.

And break international law? My understanding is it is illegal to make someone stateless, albeit one can argue she made herself stateless when she turned against 'her'country.

I just feel for continuity a more consistent approach is necessary. Immediate arrest on reentering country and if they are travelling with children, children are taken from them. This might, at least, prevent some women joining up..?

[biggbn]

fblm said:

biggbn said:

Dindoit said:

Pistonheads: Islam is a barbaric medieval cult.

Also, Pistonheads: I don’t care about the death of a baby. I bet there wasn’t even a kid and if there was she deserved it.

Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing.

Strange summary. Of course a forum holds discordant views and is logically inconsistent. If it's the same person then quote them, otherwise, shocker; there are some callous fvckers out there who represent only themselves.

OK, apologies for lazy wording. One poster suggested it was good news the kid died then hoped the woman dies also, doubtless the way many radicalised Muslims might feel were the tables turned. I accept the view, as I must, but find it abhorrent.

[biggbn]

MX5Biologist said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

When their friend went earlier to Syria, CT police interviewed all 3 girls at their school, twice, but did not inform their parents of either interview. The girls were handed letters to pass on to their parents. The police claim nothing in the interviews gave them reason to believe that the girls were planning to go to Syria. One would assume that CT officers would have the appropriate training to ask the necessary probing questions to identify radicalised children. Or were they going through the motions? Are the police up to the job? This seems disingenuous.

The contents of the letters? A request by the police to take a formal statement from the girls (interview number 3) on a future date.
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/9kve5e/familie...


Everyone leaving the UK undergoes a passport exit check. Other police officers, serving and former serving, have expressed shock and surprise that the parents' were not informed, and it seems a serious oversight that the passports of the girls who had their own weren't red flagged.

The parents reported the children were missing on the evening they went missing. By the early hours of the next day, the police contacted the parents to say they already knew these children had traveled to Turkey. That's pretty quick, considering that just a few days earlier, the police had no concerns.

In the days following their disappearance, it seems the police weren't particularly helpful to the families:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-...

Again, at the time, this was the disappearance of children from the UK.


Within months, the police had improved their processes that resulted in far fewer cases. So there was more they could have done.

[quote[As for squalor ? The background looks pretty clean, she looks remarkably dust free for being in a sandy camp and she certainly doesn’t look malnourished. All of the filming i have seen of it indicates it’s a clean, organised place, not an African refugee camp full of starving ill people.

I would look into the actual conditions in the camp before concluding it is paradise.

Her chadour is splattered with raw sewage. The Al Hawl Refugee camp is located outside of some abandoned Syrian army bases.It was established to house 15,000, and is currently accommodating 50,000.This camp was actually established almost 30 years ago, during Granby. Al Hawl means swampland. Its not some sort of desert oasis as you imagine. Swampland means fetid water. The camp was established by the UNHCR, and then run by the Syrian government. It was abandoned after DAESH over ran it, and these days, is under the control of the SDF. The Kurdish Red Crescent society provides what medical services there are; last summer, during a Typhoid epidemic in the camp, camp staff complained about lack of potable water, and poor sanitation facilities. Typhoid is most often contracted through contact with infected faeces.

Other than the Red Crescent, the presence of international agencies is largely absent.

But the other image I posted did not appear thanks to the crappy platform this forum uses.



Very different setting. The flag denotes officialdom, but it doesn't match the Kurdish or SDF flags, and must relate to whatever militia has him. So the contrast is the so-called jihadi bride in the disease ridden camp versus Letts' staged interview.

But in any case, it seems British policy is rapidly changing, to include evacuation of people from the area.

[quote]It’s a camp. And quite frankly, it’s where she should expect to be at this point. It’s not an NHS hospital, but she renounced Britain and when to go live in a society where non Muslims are slaves, women are raped and enslaved en masse and beheading of the wrong sort of people is fine... she is lucky those who captured her are more humane, and human. Her sort of lunatics would have just killed her. No doubt violently..

Thanks to the inadequacies of this forum, the point of my posting was lost on you, and anyhow, you missed the point, ignoring the comments on the issue of Kurdish independence, and Turkish sensibilities.

[quote]She’s now lost three children, that’s awful for anyone.

Having said that, the attempts to blame the British government are laughable. Drawing no comparisons at all, it’s apparently the fault of bad parenting when children fall in to the clutches of rapists, but it’s the governments fault when other children are indoctrinated by extreme religious nut jobs.

Edited by tonker on Sunday 10th March 14:34

I made no reference to blaming the UK government for the death of her children. You have confused me for someone else. We have no idea of the circumstances of the other two, or even if they existed.

The point of this thread had been hugely diminished and it is now just a thread about her man, perhaps I should have titled it better. Thanks for your informative post

[biggbn]

blueg33 said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but am I the only person who thinks that she may actually be a victim? She was a child when she ran away and is still only 19. Teenager's minds are easily filled with rebellion style bullst.

Yeah man, but you will be accused of being a bleeding heart liberal rather than a thoughtful poster,,such are the assorted slings and arrows of PH

[biggbn]

rustyuk said:

biggbn said:

blueg33 said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but am I the only person who thinks that she may actually be a victim? She was a child when she ran away and is still only 19. Teenager's minds are easily filled with rebellion style bullst.

Yeah man, but you will be accused of being a bleeding heart liberal rather than a thoughtful poster,,such are the assorted slings and arrows of PH

I've posted this a few times but her back story is horrible, for me she should have been allowed to come back, even helped and then faced the consequences.

I don't like Corbyn but at least he did have the guts to go against the popular view.

Same boat man.

[biggbn]

Dromedary66 said:

Now we just need a bunker-buster to land on her grotty snatch so she can't churn out any more infant infidels.

What an abhorrent post. You are entitled to that opinion man but sorry, I find that comment unpalatable. This is sinking to the moral level of the fundamentalist, I can imagine the (rightful) outcry if somebody wrote that about a young white Christian.

[biggbn]

Brooking10 said:

Dromedary isn’t the brightest.

As evidenced by his total misunderstanding of “infidels” in this instance.

Yeah I let that one slide.

[biggbn]

She knows her plaice

[biggbn]

Jazzy Jag said:

That have an Allahdi and a Saddam Hussainsburys.

This one only makes sense if your Scottish, Saddam Hussein had a midget brother, sadaaf Hussein

[biggbn]

Talisker said:

I am, it doesn't. don't give up the day job

Ach well, I tried!