UK Schools: Religious Freedom vs Secular Values Issue

[LoonyTunes]

https://news.sky.com/story/the-parents-who-say-the...

It's starting to become a 'thing' now with opposition to lessons that make pupils aware of same sex couples spreading out from Birmingham to the rest of the country. The National Association of Head Teachers says letters have been sent to more than 50 schools across seven parts of the UK from religious parents unhappy about the teaching.

Mainly Muslim schools BUT Christian and Jewish activists are involved as well now.

So who decides what Children learn about the society they are going to grow up in? The (secular) State or the (religious) Parent?

Should kids be taught that parenting comes in many flavours and that none are 'wrong' - just 'different'?

Personally I go with the state on this one but others may differ. It's 2019.

The government insists that when compulsory relationship lessons begin from September 2020 parents will not get a veto. It is a stance that will not go down well with the protesters and I can see it really kicking off then.

[LoonyTunes]

Foliage said:

32,000 schools in the uk, 50 have had letters, drop in the ocean, so who gives a fk.

Is this just news papers trying to create a story from nothing to get views, to get more ad revenue? Probably

Except it's not a newspaper, it's Sky News.

[LoonyTunes]

IanH755 said:

amusingduck said:

When the unstoppable force of LGBT meets the immovable object of Islam, there's only one thing you can do

Yeap, if you decide to choose a side in this situation then do you want to be known as an Islamaphobe or a Homophobe?

I'd imagine that choice would be a hell of a lot harder for those on the far left/progressive side which is possibly why they are extremely quiet on this subject at the moment

Not really.

For Liberal Free Thinkers the answer is obvious.

LGBT is a fact of life - these people exist and deserve equality so should be introduced to kids as valid parents as soon as you would introduce hetero parents. You don't need to explain the sexual act to 5 year olds to do this - just that they are parents like any other parents.

Religion is a fact of life but the basis for it is at best unproven and at worst indoctrination in a hateful way of life (see ISIS for details) and should not be taught as a truth - simply that it exists and some adults/people believe in it.

I couldn't care less whether this makes me a religious-a-phobe or whatever. Teaching the real truth is all that matters - not any particular set of parents version of the truth.

[LoonyTunes]

amusingduck said:

LoonyTunes said:

Not really.

For Liberal Free Thinkers the answer is obvious.

LGBT is a fact of life - these people exist and deserve equality so should be introduced to kids as valid parents as soon as you would introduce hetero parents. You don't need to explain the sexual act to 5 year olds to do this - just that they are parents like any other parents.

Religion is a fact of life but the basis for it is at best unproven and at worst indoctrination in a hateful way of life (see ISIS for details) and should not be taught as a truth - simply that it exists and some adults/people believe in it.

I couldn't care less whether this makes me a religious-a-phobe or whatever. Teaching the real truth is all that matters - not any particular set of parents version of the truth.

Do religionists not also deserve equality? That's a protected characteristic too. Should they not be free to practice their religious beliefs?

They do deserve equality and they get it already. That does not extend to insisting that state schools should follow their particular religious belief system. Their right to indoctrinate tell their children what they believe to be true (regardless of the evidence) ends at the school gates.

[LoonyTunes]

standards said:

Countdown said:

They're not going to explode in a ball of fire if they DO learn about LGBT issues. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Well put. I think that some of the parents/protesters might be confusing learning about something and that thing being ‘reccomended’.

At 4, 5, 6 and 7 they don't even need to know about LGBT "issues", they simply need to know it's a normal fact of life that they are bona-fide parents. Nothing more needs saying. So that when one kid is picked up from school by (say) 2 different mums on 2 different days it's not seen as odd, it's just 2 normal days at school like if it was a Mum and Dad on different days.

[LoonyTunes]

Countdown said:

LoonyTunes said:

At 4, 5, 6 and 7 they don't even need to know about LGBT "issues", they simply need to know it's a normal fact of life that they are bona-fide parents.

Isn't that basically the same thing? As mentioned earlier they are teaching the relationship aspect rather than the sexual aspect of LGBT.

What I'm saying is that it's not an "issue" as such - it's just a normal part of society. Branding it an "issue" marks it out as something that might have an unpleasant side.

It's kinda like the books they had in junior schools some 25 years ago that caused an uproar like Janet & John, Janet & Janet and John & John. Back then it caused a real furor - today it wouldn't be looked at twice.