80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany
Discussion
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.
Chamberlains full broadcast here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcSnKArKz8E&lc...
Chamberlains full broadcast here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcSnKArKz8E&lc...
That will be worth diving into. I'll try and keep this thread going on a "On This Day in World War 2" theme.
Obviously, on this day, Britain, having received no reply to its ultimatum to Germany to withdraw its forces from Poland, had no choice but to declare war. As soon as the broadcast linked above was finished, the air raid sirens went off. It turned out that it was a false alarm (some RAF Blenheims had failed to activate their Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) equipment properly and were wrongly identified as enemy aircraft.
Obviously, on this day, Britain, having received no reply to its ultimatum to Germany to withdraw its forces from Poland, had no choice but to declare war. As soon as the broadcast linked above was finished, the air raid sirens went off. It turned out that it was a false alarm (some RAF Blenheims had failed to activate their Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) equipment properly and were wrongly identified as enemy aircraft.
ash73 said:
Eric Mc said:
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.
Interesting to ponder. It certainly had a big effect on the future of Europe, and accelerated the collapse of the British Empire, but we won so did it change much here? Was it more significant than Attlee defeating Churchill in 1945, and creating the NHS and welfare state?In a way, I would prefer not to engage in "what if" type debates on this thread. I would like it to be reflective on the actual events of the period from 3 September 1939 to 15 August 1945 rather that speculation on things that didn't happen.
That's exactly what happened. So, after a short period, cinemas, theatres and dance halls reopened (and some indeed did get hit by bombs and people did die). But the public preferred to take their chances than be stuck at home listening to ITMA on the radio.
Interesting point on spectator sports. Motor racing obviously stopped - as did football (apart from the odd military services related matches). However, I think horse racing continued for the duration. Maybe someone can clarify that?
Interesting point on spectator sports. Motor racing obviously stopped - as did football (apart from the odd military services related matches). However, I think horse racing continued for the duration. Maybe someone can clarify that?
I don't want to argue over the extent of the significance of WW2 over WW1 is as it will take away from a thread on WW2. We've had the 100 year anniversary of the Great War so I'd like to move on to WW2 on this thread.
As far as Chamberlain's speech is concerned, of course it was significant as it was the announcement to the population that they were now involved in a war, the outcome of which was extremely uncertain and which, for all they were concerned, could result in the annihilation of the country. There was grave concern as to how effective mass bombing was going to be - especially if gas was going to be used. In 1939 it was widely assumed that gas attacks by bomber aircraft would be standard practice - possibly by all the participants.
It was the chief reason why there was mass evacuation of children out of London and other major metropolitan areas.
As far as Chamberlain's speech is concerned, of course it was significant as it was the announcement to the population that they were now involved in a war, the outcome of which was extremely uncertain and which, for all they were concerned, could result in the annihilation of the country. There was grave concern as to how effective mass bombing was going to be - especially if gas was going to be used. In 1939 it was widely assumed that gas attacks by bomber aircraft would be standard practice - possibly by all the participants.
It was the chief reason why there was mass evacuation of children out of London and other major metropolitan areas.
Forget I said that. It wasn't meant to be a major point. I'm happy to revise it to "one of the most significant" In fact, I was hoping this thread was more a resumé of events in World War 2 rather than an argument of what specific events in the 20th century were of more or less significance.
Can we discuss World War 1 on a separate thread?
Can we discuss World War 1 on a separate thread?
theplayingmantis said:
Eric Mc said:
.
Can we discuss World War 1 on a separate thread?
i think your talking to yourself...!Can we discuss World War 1 on a separate thread?
Anyway, meanwhile over in World War 2, things were kicking off big time. By day 3 of the war, which the 3rd of September really was, Germany had already well advanced into Poland and much of the Polish air force was neutralised.
Germany was still not 100% ready for war. Quite a few of the aircraft used against Poland were obsolete or obsolescent. This is the art work from Osprey's recent book on Junkers 52 units in the early part of the war and it shows Ju52s dropping incendiary bombs on Warsaw. The bombs were physically shovelled out the side door by a crew man.
By the time the Battle of Britain came around under a year later, the Ju52s were being used mainly as transports.
Day 2 of Britain's involvement inm the war.
New Zealand declared war on Germany today and Egypt broke of diplomatic relations with Germany.
The RAF suffered its first losses of the war. A force of Wellingtons and Blenheims attacked German shipping off Willemshaven but seven bombers were shot down - six by flak and one by a Messerschmitt 109. The RAF was under strict instructions not to bomb any part of the German mainland so these early strikes were restricted to shipping at sea. The only thing they could drop on Germany were propaganda leaflets.
These are the early versions of the Wellington that would have taken part in that raid.
New Zealand declared war on Germany today and Egypt broke of diplomatic relations with Germany.
The RAF suffered its first losses of the war. A force of Wellingtons and Blenheims attacked German shipping off Willemshaven but seven bombers were shot down - six by flak and one by a Messerschmitt 109. The RAF was under strict instructions not to bomb any part of the German mainland so these early strikes were restricted to shipping at sea. The only thing they could drop on Germany were propaganda leaflets.
These are the early versions of the Wellington that would have taken part in that raid.
The long panel along the side of the fuselage is indeed a window. The cross bracing visible through the windows is the structure of the aircraft itself. The Wellington was unusual in that it was manufactured using a fairly unique "geodesic" system of crisscrossing aluminium beans. The technique was devised by Barnes Wallis and stemmed from his original work on airships for Vickers. The first aeroplane to use it was the Vickers Wellesley and it was used on the larger Wellington. It was also used on the later Warwick (effectively a beefed up Wellington) and the much larger Windsor (which never entered series production.
The picture below shows Wellingtons under construction so you can clearly see how the airframe was put together.
Later Wellingtons had improved turrets and smaller side windows - although the airframes themselves were basically the same.
Proper bomber versions of the Ju52 did have bomb racks, as well as a drop down "dustbin" turret for defence.
The picture below shows Wellingtons under construction so you can clearly see how the airframe was put together.
Later Wellingtons had improved turrets and smaller side windows - although the airframes themselves were basically the same.
Proper bomber versions of the Ju52 did have bomb racks, as well as a drop down "dustbin" turret for defence.
Wills2 said:
Bagsy not to be in that bin......
Dustbin turrets appeared on a few designs around that time. The more advanced (just) Junkers 86 had one as had early versions of the British Whitley.They were eventually abandoned on the basis that the drag and weight penalty negated completely the dubious value of the defence they provided. Consequently, the vast bulk of the British heavy bombers built later lacked adequate ventral defence - something exploited by German night fighters later in the war.
Here's an image of a Ju 86 showing the lowered ventral turret. Ju86 were only used as bombers in the early part of the war (such as the Polish campaign) as they were rapidly becoming obsolete.
Later versions of the Whitley abandoned the ventral turret but the hole for it remained. On bomber versions, the hole was simply faired over. Later, when Whitley's began to be used as paratroop trainers, the hole was opened up again and the paratroopers dropped out through it. It wasn't very wide and if you were not careful, you could give yourself a nasty crack on the chin - a phenomenon jokingly referred to as "Whitley Chin".
As you can see, there wasn't much room in a Whitley for paratroops -
Later versions of the Whitley abandoned the ventral turret but the hole for it remained. On bomber versions, the hole was simply faired over. Later, when Whitley's began to be used as paratroop trainers, the hole was opened up again and the paratroopers dropped out through it. It wasn't very wide and if you were not careful, you could give yourself a nasty crack on the chin - a phenomenon jokingly referred to as "Whitley Chin".
As you can see, there wasn't much room in a Whitley for paratroops -
France and Britain more or less sold the Poles down the river - and continued to do so many times during the war - and after the war too.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
Toaster said:
If it wasn't for the Polish Mathematicians, it would have been extremely unlikely we would have been able to break the encryption the Germans used.
That is very true too. In fact, the Poles had been cracking German codes since the mid 1930s - not that it helped them much 80 years ago.
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