US presidential election 2020:Winner?
Poll: US presidential election 2020:Winner?
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Total Members Polled: 684
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
For me the only person who can possibly beat Trump is Bernie otherwise Trump gets another term, the Impeachment was a joke but everyone knew he'd be acquitted even before house proceedings had finish, RM cited 10 clear cases of obstruction of justice & then there was the perfect call that was so good he still won't release the actual transcript.
One thing I will give Trump lots of credit for is the fact he can project a message truth or not.
Thats a brave thing to say on here but Ive been for Bernie since day 1. he is the only politician working for the average American, whether they realise it or not,or whether they want it or not. Anyone with 2 braincells can see that M4A is better for 99% of Americans, plus all his other plans, that in this county would barely make the labour manifesto. But over there anyone to the left of Hitler is a goddam commie! He has been fighting for this for 40+ years, the only one not beholden to Billionaires(& he is only a millionaire because he wrote a best selling book-the epitome of the American Dream!)Trump cant slag him off for sniffing hair or claiming to be Indian, in any debate he would be obliterated.One thing I will give Trump lots of credit for is the fact he can project a message truth or not.
The problem at the moment is the Dem primaries, as the US doesnt have an oficial leader ofthe opposition until the very last minute. They could have a sort of Anti POTUS that would lead the opposition. But I think Bernie will get the nomination, despite the DNC doing everything possible to stop him & keep their monied backers happy. Once that happens I think his message & his advantages will become clear.
Plus he has The Incredible Hulk & The Penguin supporting him
Couldnt agree more, but look at the opinion poll on the winner for the PH opinion
Not sure if its MAGA trolls upvoting,or pessimistic Dems
Agree on the funding too-Bernie is the only one currently pointing out the cost of continuing wars(& has done it for ALL the past ones too-for every American bad decision in the last 40 years there is a video of Bernie being against it) All the Dems voted for the defence budget(although IIRC it included a lot of other stuff they wanted so kinda had to)
People praise Trump for not starting any new wars(yet!) but Bernie will try to negotiate, not drop bombs as 1st resort
Not sure if its MAGA trolls upvoting,or pessimistic Dems
Agree on the funding too-Bernie is the only one currently pointing out the cost of continuing wars(& has done it for ALL the past ones too-for every American bad decision in the last 40 years there is a video of Bernie being against it) All the Dems voted for the defence budget(although IIRC it included a lot of other stuff they wanted so kinda had to)
People praise Trump for not starting any new wars(yet!) but Bernie will try to negotiate, not drop bombs as 1st resort
Halb said:
I wouldn’t have thought of Bernie as populist, but I suppose the term is stretched these Days.
https://www.oah.org/tah/issues/2016/february/if-tr...
More with a small p these days,. he is just popular (as opposed to following the ideas from 100+ years ago)https://www.oah.org/tah/issues/2016/february/if-tr...
As is Trump,on the other side of the political spectrum
But in a general election, rather than the SOTU, Bernie is ahead with them by a country mile, and then some (in addition to voters of all kinds)
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/11/sande...
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/11/sande...
kedCarl_Manchester said:
For a so-called, non-socialist nation, the USA does spend an awful lot on Healthcare and Social Security.
When so many people are made bankrupt through medical debt, so many have piss poor insurance that costs a ridiculous amount, when so many cant afford basic drugs, so many stuck in crap jobs or relationships just to have any medical insurance, can you say that the US health system is that great? Because M4A works in the rest of the civilised world. The vast majority of Americans will pay LESS under M4A,with way better cover,and as mentioned on the previous page, the extra costs are not as high as the GOP & Centrists claim. Some posters here may have gold plated employer funded plans, but they are not everyoneFittster said:
Why should Sanders (or anyone else) tell the truth?
Trump hasn't exactly been truthful but it's done him no harm so I fail to see why anyone else would be.
Bernie has been fighting the same fight for 40 odd years, he has never wavered in support of the working class, why would he start lying now? Trump hasn't exactly been truthful but it's done him no harm so I fail to see why anyone else would be.
Whereas the truth is not just a different country to Trump, its a different planet!
Fittster said:
I've brought this up before but does anyone actually believe Sanders is a socialist?
Only in so far as anyone with vaguely centre/left leanings(from a UK standpoint) is viewed as a socialist, or more likely a raging commie!What is Trump's bailout for the farmers but socialism? As Sanders said ,"Trump is a socialist for the billionaires, I am a socialist for the people"
Jimbeaux said:
kowalski655 said:
When so many people are made bankrupt through medical debt, so many have piss poor insurance that costs a ridiculous amount, when so many cant afford basic drugs, so many stuck in crap jobs or relationships just to have any medical insurance, can you say that the US health system is that great? Because M4A works in the rest of the civilised world. The vast majority of Americans will pay LESS under M4A,with way better cover,and as mentioned on the previous page, the extra costs are not as high as the GOP & Centrists claim. Some posters here may have gold plated employer funded plans, but they are not everyone
It is by no means anywhere near perfect. On drug costs, Trump has been making strong progress in lowering costs. I bet that gets no airtime where you are does it? Again, he is using market forces against themselves forcing competition and transparency to force prices down. This is the way those who support the GOP want things done as opposed to 100% government solutions that rarely pan out. https://apnews.com/7cb7a5786a274715a5ec63cb6e566e7...
A plan is only just coming after 3 years! And now his budget plans cuts to Medicare,and Medicaid, despite a promise not to do so. No surprise there! So MORE people not or underinsured, this will literally kill people.
Jimbeaux said:
He also has garnered endorsements from many prominent black leaders. Most blacks vote for who these people suggest. That sounds offensive perhaps but it is true. We will get a hint of how it will go on Super Tuesday.
Older black people are more conservative, and go for Biden or Trump.Which is odd,as they would be old enough to remember Trump's refusal to rent to blacks,and his view on the Central Park 5, Bloomberg and his racist stop and frisk(that's coming back now!), Bidens opposition to desegregation and increase in sentencing etc in a racist justice system....and Bernie marching with MLK and fighting for equality in housing on campus which started his activism.
Younger black voters go waaay more for Sanders
And back on M4A, a Lancet article saying that it will save money AND lives
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(19)33019-3
Jimbeaux said:
Let's be hypothetical. If the the race on the Dem side ended up being between Bloomberg and Sanders, one might assume that Pete's and Biden's votes would go to Bloomberg. One may equally assume that Warren's votes would go to Sanders. Also bear in mind that some of those other votes make go nowhere and simply stay home.
Most polls show Bernie is second choice,even to Bidens supporters...Jimbeaux said:
There is speculation that the Dems could go into the convention contested. That has not happened in a long while, I believe 1972 IIRC. this happens when no candidate has a clear majority of delegates by the convention time. The conventional wisdom is that this is bad for the Dems; however, some see it as a silver lining in that they would coalesce just before the election and have fresher momentum.
but if it goes to a contested election, the DNCs super delegates are bound to screw over Bernie, big styleJimbeaux said:
I believe you are correct. Bernie’s people may erupt.
You said Bernie comes in 2nd, do you mean to Mike?
It would be ironic if Bernie got most votes from all the primaries, but didn't get the nomination You said Bernie comes in 2nd, do you mean to Mike?
(Also a tragedy)
Re:2nd choice, I meant that if the more conservative candidates were to drop out, Berni would get their votes((according to the polls)
paulguitar said:
GroundZero said:
NoNeed said:
So the Dems have had four years to find somebody that can beat Trump but prefer candidates that have no chance
I think they've been more or less focused on one single issue that has consumed them, that being to remove Trump from office.unrepentant said:
Sanders biggest problem would be turning out the independent vote. The base would come out whoever the candidate is and the one advantage that Bernie has is that the young people would turn out for him in large numbers, moreso than they would for any of the others.
Texas doesn't matter, it's going red whatever happens. The only states that really count, like always, are the purple swing states. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Colorado, Florida.
IIRC Bernie has a big lead among independent s, bigger than Trump had in '16Texas doesn't matter, it's going red whatever happens. The only states that really count, like always, are the purple swing states. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Colorado, Florida.
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