CV19 - The Anti Vaxxers Are Back

[Gadgetmac]

Up to a third of Brits polled won't take the vaccine if and when it's produced.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-up-to-a-thi...

WTF is wrong with some people???

Extract:

A third of Britons have said they are either unsure or definitely wouldn't use a vaccine for coronavirus, a poll suggests.

The survey, conducted on behalf of the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), coincides with the release of a report by the same group into the spread of anti-vaccine misinformation online.

Members of the public who relied on social media more than traditional platforms for information were less likely to say they would get vaccinated, the poll suggests.

[Gadgetmac]

With the amount of research and testing that goes on before a drug is released to the public today I'd argue it petty much is a no brainer considering the implications of not taking it for both you, your loved ones and those you might randomly encounter including the old and those with existing medical conditions.

[Gadgetmac]

Matt_N said:

I won’t be having it.

But then I’m in an age group that barely needs to worry about it.

I’m young’ish fit and healthy.

So you don't care about catching it and passing it on with possibly fatal consequences?

Great.

What an altruistic bunch PH'ers are.

[Gadgetmac]

Pit Pony said:

DeWar said:

With respect to anti-vaxx in general, choose one or more from:

- Inability to critically evaluate information
- Scientific illiteracy
- A talent for tolerating cognitive dissonance
- Paranoia
- The cult of “celebrity”
- A lack of understanding of how truly horrific some diseases now rare or eradicated by vaccines actually are/were
- Contrarianism
- Being thick as mince

Or maybe they've worked in the Pharma industry, in Quality assurance, or remember thalidomide?

Personally I'd have it.

My daughter and SiL are both Senior Clinical Data Managers in one of the biggest Pharma companies on the globe involved in running clinical trials for new drugs/vaccines all over the world and wouldn't hesitate to take any vaccine when it becomes available.

Let's not forget that a vaccine is completely different from a drug.

Either way as far as testing is concerned although it might be a reduced sample size as long as it's of a sample size that's big enough to produce a clear statistically relevant answer then it's good enough to release to the public. No ifs or buts.

As for drugs well things have moved on from Thalidomide.

[Gadgetmac]

Tankrizzo said:

amgmcqueen said:

You're a brainwashed fool!

I won't be having it either.

You think people who have vaccinations are brainwashed?

That is a particular brand of special.

Yep. And there won’t be a vaccine any time soon for his unique brand of special.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

As are the Clinicians conducting trials in Vaccinations and Drugs in the Pharma Industry - they're not just taken from the nearest queue at a bus stop.

So what's your point?

[Gadgetmac]

mx5nut said:

BevR said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

Why do you trust a surgeon trained to perform surgery but not a scientist trained to research and design vaccines?

There aren't any shady social media misinformation campaigns encouraging people to distrust surgeons.

Exactly.

Well that and 'I have my good given right to refuse immunisation regardless of the outcome for others should I pass it on to them...fk 'em...they should be looking out for themselves regardless of whether that's possible or not!'.

Libertarianism writ large.

[Gadgetmac]

Anyone know how I add a poll to this thread?

[Gadgetmac]

Kermit power said:

otolith said:

Woody John said:

Hoofy said:

The dude in the video is a doctor who claimed AIDS was a hoax. You can now do something more productive with your life, such as fishing in your toilet bowl.
/quote]

Did he though?

Yes. And still does.

Woody John said:

And if he did was he wrong?

Yes. And still is.

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/aids.htm

Have you actually read the page you've linked to?

I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.

Eh?

He's arguing that Aids doesn't actually exist.

It's called aids denialism.

[Gadgetmac]

Taylor James said:

BevR said:

Taylor James said:

Not being tested on anyone other than healthy people. Not being tested on pregnant women.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-04-23-oxford-covid-...

They must be really confident it's harmless.

So when it has been tested on the healthy and non-pregnant, when they do move to the unhealthy and with child?

Or do they stay unprotected?

Pray tell, how you would have designed a phase 1 first in man clinical trial?

I'm not the person designing the trial. I'm potentially someone who might be asked to take the vaccine.

So when do they start giving it to unhealthy people and pregnant women?

They don't trial drugs on pregnant women.

[Gadgetmac]

If a vaccine becomes available why wouldn't you take it. Do you want lockdown again? Indeed we couldn't afford lockdown again. And yet lockdown was initiated to stop bodies piling up in the streets as the NHS used its resources to fight the disease. So knowing they'll be no further lockdowns are you happy to possibly be a spreader of a second wave?

We all play the odds every day by taking simple drugs like ibuprofen...have a look at the possible side effects of that. And that's a drug taken time and time again not a one off vaccine jab.

The difference between Covid and Flu is if Covid takes hold of you you can end up needing a ventilator and 24 hour nursing care...ask Boris..but with a flu you'll usually get over it yourself if you don't have other underlying health conditions and with no intervention required.

[Gadgetmac]

grumbledoak said:

Gadgetmac said:

If a vaccine becomes available why wouldn't you take it. Do you want lockdown again? Indeed we couldn't afford lockdown again. And yet lockdown was initiated to stop bodies piling up in the streets as the NHS used its resources to fight the disease. So knowing they'll be no further lockdowns are you happy to possibly be a spreader of a second wave?

We all play the odds every day by taking simple drugs like ibuprofen...have a look at the possible side effects of that. And that's a drug taken time and time again not a one off vaccine jab.

The difference between Covid and Flu is if Covid takes hold of you you can end up needing a ventilator and 24 hour nursing care...ask Boris..but with a flu you'll usually get over it yourself if you don't have other underlying health conditions and with no intervention required.

Your comparisons are either ignorant or intentionally misleading.

"simple drugs" like ibuprofen have a long history of widespread use. The side effects are known and uncommon. A new vaccine has little history, a shiny new mRNA vaccine has no history at all. The risks are unknown and potentially large. The two are very different yet you imply they are the same.

When you get the flu "you'll usually get over it yourself", yes. But we know that "when you get the COVID-19" you'll probably not even notice. It is milder than the flu for healthy people, even more so the young. So, COVID-19 is similar or better yet you imply the opposite.

Yes, that's why the hospitals in Europe were overwhelmed by Coronavirus cases this year yet this never happens with the flu.

Milder than the flu? Its certainly more deadly than the flu and it's people like you spreading this rubbish online that give social media a bad name.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/a...

And any vaccine will have been tested adequately just as any vaccine is before release to the public. You imply we could all be fallng down in the street stricken with complications from an untested one jab vaccine which is again anti vaxxer ignorance.

And whilst the risks of ibuprofen are slight they exist.

[Gadgetmac]

grumbledoak said:

Gadgetmac said:

Yes, that's why the hospitals in Europe were overwhelmed by Coronavirus cases this year yet this never happens with the flu.

Milder than the flu? Its certainly more deadly than the flu and it's people like you spreading this rubbish online that give social media a bad name.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/a...

And any vaccine will have been tested adequately just as any vaccine is before release to the public. You imply we could all be fallng down in the street stricken with complications from an untested one jab vaccine which is again anti vaxxer ignorance.

And whilst the risks of ibuprofen are slight they exist.

Nope. Quadruple down!

Hospitals are routinely overwhelmed by the flu. It seldom makes the headlines but you'll find the news reports if you look.

COVID-19 is less lethal for the young and healthy than the flu. The statistics are quite clear. Check them yourself.

Long term vaccine risks cannot be discovered by short term trials. Even short term risks cannot be ascertained by small trials. A COVID-19 vaccine given to everyone with the same Narcolepsy risk as Pandemrix in 2009 would create over 45,000 brain damaged people.

The slight risks of Ibuprofen do exist. That is not the same as them being high probability, or unknown. We know this from long term, widespread use. Stop me if I am going too fast for you.

The country is not made up of just some select group of fit young people...see the posts above.

Want some statistics for whether covid is or isn’t more dangerous in the general population than the flu?

Here, try hundreds of them, simply google “is covid more dangerous than flu”.

Stop me if I’m going to fast for you.

The problem with people like you is that you have a set mindset...like climate change deniers and nothing is going to alter your beliefs.

[Gadgetmac]

DeWar said:

grumbledoak said:

Hospitals are routinely overwhelmed by the flu. It seldom makes the headlines but you'll find the news reports if you look.

This is exceptionally misleading. Hospitals frequently become full to near capacity in the winter and therefore have to work overtime to try to safely discharge patients back into the community. This is entirely different to the threat that COVID posed.

Intensive care beds being rationed to the point where people with serious treatable illnesses of any cause might have instead been left to inevitably die due to lack of ICU beds was a whisker away from happening in several London hospitals according a number of my hospital physician friends/colleagues back in April. This DID happen in Lombardy. It has never happened because of a ‘flu pandemic.

Of course, it’s possible that randomers reading news reports know more than those actually dealing with the problem. It seems unlikely.

I have a serious long term illness that means I see a consultant 4 times a year. This year all appointments have been cancelled thus far. I alao still can’t get to see a dentist as they are only seeing emergencies.

But people like GO will try to tell us that it’s just another year.

These people are dangerous.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

If your under 40 you are more likely to die from a lightning strike than of Covid.

I've left the sheets to get wet 'just to be safe'.

In the US over the last 30 years on average 43 people per year die from lightning strikes. How many in the US who are under 44 have died this year from Covid?

Let me tell you...it’s 610 or 4% of the deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavi...

#misinformationcounts

Edited by Gadgetmac on Thursday 9th July 11:21

[Gadgetmac]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So if long term health problems don’t mean much why not take a vaccine when released?

So you don’t think Covid is demonstrably more serious than other viruses?

Makes you wonder why we went into lockdown with almost every other country on the planet then doesn’t it? Not to mention how much damage has been done to the economy whilst making a Conservative Govt spend on a scale the previous socialist govts can only dream of.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

If your under 40 you are more likely to die from a lightning strike than of Covid.

I've left the sheets to get wet 'just to be safe'.

In the US over the last 30 years on average 43 people per year die from lightning strikes. How many in the US who are under 44 have died this year from Covid?

Let me tell you...it’s 610 or 4% of the deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavi...

#misinformationcounts

That's handy. Using your figures 610 have died from Covid and 1290 people have died from lightning strikes. There is indeed a lot of misinformation out there.

You’re comparing 30 years with 3 months

Try extrapolating an unvaccinated 30 years @ 610 per year and then compare which is more likely to kill you.

That about sums up the anti-vaxxer mindset.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

If your under 40 you are more likely to die from a lightning strike than of Covid.

I've left the sheets to get wet 'just to be safe'.

In the US over the last 30 years on average 43 people per year die from lightning strikes. How many in the US who are under 44 have died this year from Covid?

Let me tell you...it’s 610 or 4% of the deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavi...

#misinformationcounts

That's handy. Using your figures 610 have died from Covid and 1290 people have died from lightning strikes. There is indeed a lot of misinformation out there.

You’re comparing 30 years with 3 months

Try extrapolating an unvaccinated 30 years @ 610 per year and then compare which is more likely to kill you.

That about sums up the anti-vaxxer mindset.

I'm not anti-vax, I just won't benefit from this particular vaccine. I also don't have the seasonal flu jab as I don't need it. In a number of years I'll benefit from it and then I'll have it.

Why aren't you having the seasonal flu jab if your reason is altruism?

I DO have the seasonal flu jab every single year.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

s2art said:

WinstonWolf said:

Woody John said:

s2art said:

WinstonWolf said:

I'm not anti-vax, I just won't benefit from this particular vaccine. I also don't have the seasonal flu jab as I don't need it. In a number of years I'll benefit from it and then I'll have it.

Why aren't you having the seasonal flu jab if your reason is altruism?

You may or may not benefit from a jab, although its a risky bet as plenty of youngish people have suffered organ damage (lungs mainly) after catching it. But its your friends and relatives (young or old) who stand to benefit. as you couldnt pass it on after the jab.

That is simply not true.

Yup.

So let's expand on this. The Karen's are going to be shoving their way to the front of the queue for a jab they don't really need thereby depriving those who would actually benefit from it. Protect the vulnerable...

We're not going to go from no vaccine to having 66 million shots suddenly available are we?

If the vaccine passes all the tests by Octoberish, SKB thinks its possible to jab the bulk of the population by EOY. Remember production started some time ago.

66 million doctors appointments. That's going to be some interesting logistics as they're currently doing primarily video and telephone consultations. I can't see a problem here at all

As you’ve never had the flu jab you clearly don’t know how it works...66 million doctors appointments

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

If your under 40 you are more likely to die from a lightning strike than of Covid.

I've left the sheets to get wet 'just to be safe'.

In the US over the last 30 years on average 43 people per year die from lightning strikes. How many in the US who are under 44 have died this year from Covid?

Let me tell you...it’s 610 or 4% of the deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavi...

#misinformationcounts

That's handy. Using your figures 610 have died from Covid and 1290 people have died from lightning strikes. There is indeed a lot of misinformation out there.

You’re comparing 30 years with 3 months

Try extrapolating an unvaccinated 30 years @ 610 per year and then compare which is more likely to kill you.

That about sums up the anti-vaxxer mindset.

I'm not anti-vax, I just won't benefit from this particular vaccine. I also don't have the seasonal flu jab as I don't need it. In a number of years I'll benefit from it and then I'll have it.

Why aren't you having the seasonal flu jab if your reason is altruism?

I DO have the seasonal flu jab every single year.

Then you should probably have this one too. I don't currently need it, it's of no benefit to me whatsoever.

As you're vulnerable you should take extra care of yourself...

And I will but others are less fortunate than me and could come into contact with people like you or areas contaminated by people like you.