Kids getting ripped off at Uni
Discussion
Okay, sorry now for another CV19 related thread but this one deserves its own I think.
Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
Evoluzione said:
Can he opt out, go get a job then go back to it in later years?
We've discussed this and, being a surveyor myself, I have made enquires with a number of firms and contacts to see if he can get on to a degree apprentice position at this stage.However, employers run a mile as, yes, they are all working from home so there are no offices for him to work at or gain the necessary experience.
Push comes to shove he could work for me but I have never thought that would be good for him - he needs to be out in the bright lights/big city and get the rounded experience, personal and professional, he would get in a big firm.
Here's another one...
two mates off another course but in the same street were 'visited' by a couple of young student girls the other night (oh to be young again)
Okay it's against the rules but they were duly dobbed in by a curtain twitcher and within minutes the Covid marshalls were knocking on the door demanding access - lads told them to do one and next thing they know is the police were around and demanded access which they granted (not sure that is even legal without a warrant) and they searched the flat. Young girls were secreted in a wardrobe and BiB went on their way.
This is kosher by the way (first hand).
two mates off another course but in the same street were 'visited' by a couple of young student girls the other night (oh to be young again)
Okay it's against the rules but they were duly dobbed in by a curtain twitcher and within minutes the Covid marshalls were knocking on the door demanding access - lads told them to do one and next thing they know is the police were around and demanded access which they granted (not sure that is even legal without a warrant) and they searched the flat. Young girls were secreted in a wardrobe and BiB went on their way.
This is kosher by the way (first hand).
Evoluzione said:
I mean any job. Just to bide time, make money and get experience. Anything is better than sitting around doing nothing and will reflect on him positively later.
It's terrible what is happening, but many of us are just treading water atm and going nowhere.
Yeah, he would do that - he spent the summer recess working at B&Q and prior to that worked the bar at the local golf club on a weekend but currently he's contracted to a years tenancy away from home on his flat and I am guessing tied in somehow ot complete this year at Uni so the options are a bit limited.It's terrible what is happening, but many of us are just treading water atm and going nowhere.
Derek Smith said:
I've got four kids. The most academically gifted one was expected, like her elder brother, to go to a good uni and get a good degree. She, typically, was of a different mind. She took her excellent A-levels and CV to various companies, received a number of offers, and picked the one that encouraged further educational courses which they funded.
At the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
My son is doing a vocational degree - he knows what he wants to do as a job but he needs the degree to do it unfortunately otherwise he would be working now. A miniumum 2 years professional training is then required to obtain his 'letters' once he has his degree. There are other ways but the simplest way for him to qualify is to follow a RICS accredited degree and pay the 40k 'key money'. An apprentice degree route is available and was much preferred however no one is offering that as they are all working from home due to the death virusAt the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
Vanden Saab said:
Bloody hell mate, he will get a better experience and learn far more from you than any degree or big firm as long as you get on which it sounds like you do. If you are worried about him being at home then rent him a flat or buy him a doer upper so he can learn all about living on his own getting up in the morning etc. Why would you want to saddle him with thousands of £s of debt for a degree which does not sound like it will be worth the paper it is printed on.
My gripe is not with the degree - it is worthwhile (not golf course design, meeja studies or sports studies) as it grants him direct access to the two years post grad professional training required to qualify as a chartered survyeor (something that has kept me in full and profitable employment for all of my career).I even attended the same course at the same Uni nearly 30 years ago now - then we were in lectures for 3.5 days a week plus tutorial time. It's the same course - a BSc (Hons). As said he knows what he wants to do it's just the s
tty current situation and that he is at risk of being awarded a degree below what he could easily achieve (2:1) for a pretty much guaranteed position with a blue chip surveying firmbigandclever said:
I’ll repeat my earlier unpopular opinion slightly more robustly 
What’s stopping him getting off his arse and educating himself while we’re in coronageddon? When the marking scheme is inevitably driven downwards he could be in position to get a first. All the source materials are going to be online; more reading than he’ll ever be able to do is online; he’s got direct, unencumbered access to someone qualified who’s been in the career for however many decades; he should be fking golden, not moaning. Said with love
He's already doing that, the fundamental issue and what the thread is all about (until hijacked by a troll - not you BTW) is that he's accruing debt for a service that isn't being provided when it easily could be. What’s stopping him getting off his arse and educating himself while we’re in coronageddon? When the marking scheme is inevitably driven downwards he could be in position to get a first. All the source materials are going to be online; more reading than he’ll ever be able to do is online; he’s got direct, unencumbered access to someone qualified who’s been in the career for however many decades; he should be fking golden, not moaning. Said with love WindyMills said:
I did my surveying degree at Reading College of Estate Management. They do the distance learning one, with posted and online resources.
For a set of folders and and online portal, it still feels grossly expensive, but is probably cheaper than f/t uni.
But if your lad is up for doing a degree in his spare time, and then working f/t, maybe this is an option?
That's the hard way, ..respect!For a set of folders and and online portal, it still feels grossly expensive, but is probably cheaper than f/t uni.
But if your lad is up for doing a degree in his spare time, and then working f/t, maybe this is an option?
It may be something he would consider but an apprentice degree allied to a local Uni seems to be the way forward for him.
I actually took my degree first year as a 'young' mature student one day a week while working in architectural practice and then went full time for two years to complete it. The odd thing is my degree is Est Man but I'm qualified as a Building Surveyor purely because the only part time RICS degree was Est Man at the time!
Prior to that I followed the old day release ONC/HNC for 5 years and it's the best grounding I ever had - the work and learn model was fantastic and most of what I picked up during that time has followed me through my career and been invaluable. We were designing trusses,beams, columns, concrete mixes, doing cube tests in the civils lab and the whole nine yards on the day realease course and I loved it.....if only the same was available now for the boy.
Most new surveying grads now could not even tell you the size of a metric brick but could wax lyrical about KPI's and risk registers!
Edited by Lotobear on Thursday 22 October 13:03
Edited by Lotobear on Thursday 22 October 13:04
Update on my original post, concerning my own son specifically.
He's packing it all in - he's had enough. I tried to persuade him out of it and get him to finish the year but he does tend to know his own mind and wants to get a job instead (which of course may be difficult, though he has his Btec)
I've also just learned, though he has kept this quiet, that one of the lads off his year very sadly took his own life just before Christmas. I can't say whether this was as a result of what has happened with the course but it's certain to have added to the atmosphere of gloom.
I've said I will support him in whatever he decides to do next.
.....perhaps the wider impact of Covid which does not get sufficient mention in my view - his future could be stuffed or else it could be the making of him, who knows?
He's packing it all in - he's had enough. I tried to persuade him out of it and get him to finish the year but he does tend to know his own mind and wants to get a job instead (which of course may be difficult, though he has his Btec)
I've also just learned, though he has kept this quiet, that one of the lads off his year very sadly took his own life just before Christmas. I can't say whether this was as a result of what has happened with the course but it's certain to have added to the atmosphere of gloom.
I've said I will support him in whatever he decides to do next.
.....perhaps the wider impact of Covid which does not get sufficient mention in my view - his future could be stuffed or else it could be the making of him, who knows?
WinstonR said:
I hated university and often wanted to quit. I only did it because everyone else at school was going to university and there was this mindset that if you didn't go to uni you were somehow a failure. Although I did end up getting my degree I still wish I had packed it in and become a joiner.
If your son doesn't want to do it strongly enough to quit (which I think takes courage to do) then I think he has the strength of character that means he is likely to succeed in whatever he ultimately decides to do.
Thanks for those wise and reassuring words and for what it's worth I think you may be right. He's a quiet lad at face value but quite a deep thinker and he will have thought this through at some length and decided it's not for him and no amount of parental cajoling is going to change that (so I've told the wife to lay off!). I'm sure he would have enjoyed it were it not for being in imposed islolation and getting 2-3 hours remote contact time per week but as he says 'it's not what was sold to me'.If your son doesn't want to do it strongly enough to quit (which I think takes courage to do) then I think he has the strength of character that means he is likely to succeed in whatever he ultimately decides to do.
Given he's highly conscientious I have a good feeling that he will make his way in life regardless and I'll do all I can to support him. I've suggested an electrical engineering apprenticeship and he seems quite interested. - he is keen to work and learn 'on the job'
OpulentBob said:
Because everyone MUST have a university degree.
I wonder how much the kids really do want it, and how much is "you must have a degree" stamped in to them by their parents.
In my son's case he was doing a worthwhile science degree which would have guaranteed him professional chartered status and a well paid job for the rest of his life but I agree, if it's media studies, equestrian studies, events management, drama, sports studies or golf course design I don't have a lot of sympathy.I wonder how much the kids really do want it, and how much is "you must have a degree" stamped in to them by their parents.
thewarlock said:
Bit of a weird list. I know people that work in just about all of those fields and do well for themselves.
I've no doubt some folk, a small number, do very well in those areas of work but I'd wager there are hundreds and possibly thousands of disappointed kids sitting in call centres with one of those type of degrees who came out bright eyed and bushy tailed only to find there were no jobs for them.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff