The EU v UK vaccine tussle
Discussion
Ridgemont said:
The original article which pretty much lays out AZ’s position (and makes the EU look like cretins)
https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/...
Which they arehttps://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The first 4 paragraphs of that article are quite extraordinary and smacks of 'we are more important than you are'. I can understand everyone wants the vaccine but they delayed signing on the dotted line and I would guess that AZ are gearing up in the EU in the same way they did in the UK problems and all.It isn't like ordering it next day on Amazon, I suspect there is a lot of political bluster going on because they are finding the contract terms politically inconvenient.
NerveAgent said:
I bet AstraZeneca are regretting doing this at cost price!
I bet they are regretting dealing with the EU at all. Talk about a smear program against their business, i'd sue the f
kers for potential damage to their reputation.If the EU do end up placing export restrictions, that will change the landscape of pharma significantly.
jimmythingy said:
Are India making any of these vacines? they have the best capabilities to produce in volume. Also they have a reputation for manufacturing generic drugs before patents end could this happen. I can't see any of the drug companies handing over the recipe even if it's a good cause.
Pretty certain AZ have a plant there doing exactly this.Electro1980 said:
The factory location does have a bearing. The contracts are tied to supply chains and developing manufacturing facilities. Also the factory in the U.K. was developed and built with a lot of U.K. government funding and the factory doing the final fill has been specifically contracted by AZ to do the distribution to the U.K.
These contracts are incredibly complex and have all sorts of clauses and details on the full process of how it will be fulfilled.
They are so complicated that it took UK 3 months less time to agree, maybe its the 27 translations that slow the EU so much. These contracts are incredibly complex and have all sorts of clauses and details on the full process of how it will be fulfilled.
It’s a bit strange that the EU are complaining that they don’t yet have vaccine which they haven’t yet approved!.
But say it will be approved at the end of the month..
Why not approve it now? All very odd.
A fair chunk of our oldies have had their first Pfizer dose, i’m sure that the government are taking steps to bank their second doses.
Then we can crack on with the OxfordAz etc
Once we have covered the first 15 million it’ll almost time for their round 2.
For balance ,we can’t do a China (selfishly buying up all of the PPE before anyone else got a look in..)
But say it will be approved at the end of the month..
Why not approve it now? All very odd.
A fair chunk of our oldies have had their first Pfizer dose, i’m sure that the government are taking steps to bank their second doses.
Then we can crack on with the OxfordAz etc
Once we have covered the first 15 million it’ll almost time for their round 2.
For balance ,we can’t do a China (selfishly buying up all of the PPE before anyone else got a look in..)
chrispmartha said:
And the Express, Mail etc are no different but in the opposite direction, it just seems a bit weird to criticise a neutral media report, when that seems to be what people want more of rather than biased output.
The Anti EU media are spinning this as a EU V UK issue when it really isn't its an EU V AZ issue.
Its actually an EU member state v EU commision issue that might affect UK supplies.The Anti EU media are spinning this as a EU V UK issue when it really isn't its an EU V AZ issue.
Iamnotkloot said:
Yep, a good read that. Whilst the speed of action of the UK (and the US) is fantastic, there could yet be hazards on the way if, for example, there are some bad side effects, or lower effectiveness, to any of the vaccines. Then the EU's approach (greater accountability/liability to the producers) will look inspired. However, if that doesn't happen, they'll look overly bureaucratic and incompetent, and having cost lives.
Interesting trade off's.
Are you suggesting the EU would sue AZ if the vaccine doesn't work as expected?Interesting trade off's.
superlightr said:
could be a great opportunity for the UK to house Phama companies/production plants - if the EU fek around too much then why should phama risk production in the EU in the future.
You can bet pharma company CEO's will be taking note of how the EU are slagging off a company doing its best to accommodate a 3 month delay impossed by the EU.It's spectacularly short sighted management of a problem to try and cover their arses.
Iamnotkloot said:
The article I refer to above says:
"The result: lower prices, with higher accountability for drugmakers, and shots for the whole of the EU — but also delays in delivery and rising tensions among EU member countries resentful about the tradeoffs."
and
"The Commission’s strategy may yet be vindicated in the longer term. If there turns out to be problems with a vaccine, the insistence on holding drugmakers liable will look inspired."
I do not know if the above = being sued, it depends on what accountability/liability mean in this context
What else can it mean other than something negative for the company is threatened?"The result: lower prices, with higher accountability for drugmakers, and shots for the whole of the EU — but also delays in delivery and rising tensions among EU member countries resentful about the tradeoffs."
and
"The Commission’s strategy may yet be vindicated in the longer term. If there turns out to be problems with a vaccine, the insistence on holding drugmakers liable will look inspired."
I do not know if the above = being sued, it depends on what accountability/liability mean in this context
I'd tell them to p
s off and make their own vaccines if they want a punishment clause in a program like this.CaptainSlow said:
If the shoe was on the other foot we would have all the usual mouth pieces in the EU and on this forum crowing about how it was the UK's decision to leave the EU...and something about cake.
I hope the UK, despite the behaviour of the EU over the last 5 years, shares out surplus vaccinations once all the over 50's are done.
A 3 month delay should just about manage that.I hope the UK, despite the behaviour of the EU over the last 5 years, shares out surplus vaccinations once all the over 50's are done.
chrispmartha said:
Again, some one here quote the Express and the Mail as a credible source, some even think Order-Order is a credible source.
If you think its only the Guardian that people post as a 'credible' source on here you are showing your bias.
All media has bias unfortunately. I tend to read from both spectrums then look for the source of the story if it's of interest.If you think its only the Guardian that people post as a 'credible' source on here you are showing your bias.
loafer123 said:
The other point worth mentioning is that the Oxford/AZ vaccine is being done at cost for anyone who wants it.
Is the Pfizer Biontec one making a profit, or is it just much more expensive to make?
AZ is under 2 euros a shot. Pfizer is 12. Even the failed French one is 8 euros a shot. They don’t have enough vaccine because they ordered late, ordered the wrong vaccines and both Pfizer and AZ have had issues scaling up production. They have chosen to pin it on AZ for obvious reason. If they had ordered 3 months earlier they would most likely have got through production issues 3 months ago, like the UK did. The EU is a disgrace trying to pin this on AZ to cover their own incompetence.Is the Pfizer Biontec one making a profit, or is it just much more expensive to make?
Oh and the only reason we know the prices is the EU already broke the contract by publishing them!
Mrr T said:
According to the accounts in the press the contract contains non disclosure clauses.
Well they already breached their agreement with Pfizer...https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belg...
FiF said:
It was considered, and I think it would stand UK plc in good stead in the longer term. Others may disagree of course and that's perfectly fine. In my considered view it's a better look than being seen as a kid who won't share his sweeties. Call me a big softie if you must. Don't forget strictly this is not EU vs UK spat, it's EU vs AZ which is being engineered by some to be EU vs UK to fulfil another agenda.
Certainly I see the EU pitching it as EU vs UK to reinforce their arse covering narrative with a bit of nationalism. This is not first come first served. This is not a butchers shop. Vaccines should not be exported to the UK. The UK should supply the EU order... "we" should certainly help if we can though and supply any excess to individual EU countries directly.Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 28th January 14:40
DeltonaS said:
I think you and many on here are oversimplifying things allong nationalistic lines.
Is it really relevant that one party ordered before the other. Many country's have invested billions in these vaccins.
This morning I've heard in an interview with a researcher that unlike Pfizer, AZ is an inexperienced vaccin developer. Therefor problems with the production of the vaccine were not unexpected. The researcher also explained that the release of research data did not go as promised by the CEO of AZ last December. One of the reasons it took EMA longer to approve the vaccine.
The EU's complaint is that the entire production problems are being charged to the EU. AZ has made a (contractual agreed) promise to a number of countries to deliver x amounts of vaccines. Now that it appears that AZ cannot fulfill it's obligation the ethical thing to do is that AZ divides the missing vaccines pro rata among the countries involved.
As an another example; Philips o.a. things makes respirators, but only in 2 factory's in the US. At the start of the pandemic in march Philips was overwhelmed with demand. The USA could easily have said (even backed by US law); we don't allow the export of respirators from US soil. However the US decided that country''s each got a share of available stock and production.
Lot's of small mindedness and willy waving.
Yeah a handful of posters on PH are the one's bringing nationalism into the debate. Not the EU. Righto. Pfizer and Sanofi have also cut back production or not delivered any vaccines to the EU but I don't hear you calling for the US or France to make up the shortfall to the EU. The EU ordered 3 months late as they squabbled over spreading the orders around member states and AZ's EU production facilities are (only) a month behind the UK's as a result. AZ CEO is quoted as saying order is on a best efforts basis. Here's the AZ order book (as far as has been made public);Is it really relevant that one party ordered before the other. Many country's have invested billions in these vaccins.
This morning I've heard in an interview with a researcher that unlike Pfizer, AZ is an inexperienced vaccin developer. Therefor problems with the production of the vaccine were not unexpected. The researcher also explained that the release of research data did not go as promised by the CEO of AZ last December. One of the reasons it took EMA longer to approve the vaccine.
The EU's complaint is that the entire production problems are being charged to the EU. AZ has made a (contractual agreed) promise to a number of countries to deliver x amounts of vaccines. Now that it appears that AZ cannot fulfill it's obligation the ethical thing to do is that AZ divides the missing vaccines pro rata among the countries involved.
As an another example; Philips o.a. things makes respirators, but only in 2 factory's in the US. At the start of the pandemic in march Philips was overwhelmed with demand. The USA could easily have said (even backed by US law); we don't allow the export of respirators from US soil. However the US decided that country''s each got a share of available stock and production.
Lot's of small mindedness and willy waving.
USA ordered 300m for $1.2bn in May
UK ordered 100m for $114m in May
EU ordered 300m for $408m in August
The EU can try and spin it as being AZ being incompetent and the UK being difficult and some people will lap it up if it suits their view but the reality is AZ is supplying at a very small fraction of the price of the others and will ultimately probably do more to bring this pandemic to an end globally than anyone else.
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210126-humili...
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