NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
Murmurs from a couple of nursing unions that strike action could be a possibility following a 1% pay rise being announced and reported by BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
I think what angers me most about it, is the weasel-ness of it; 1% is the minimum amount that could even be put forward as a "pay rise".
Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
Downward said:
NextSlidePlease said:
For those who worked on the "front line" they deserve a nice bonus for the physical but mostly mental torment they have been subjected to. You couldn't pay me enough to work on the covid and intensive care wards during this s
t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.
I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They've all risked their lives and 230 have even lost them to care for a huge number of people way beyond any natural disaster in living memory. 130,000 odd thousand people have been killed in case some need reminding.
And it's not just front line workers that have been affected, many have been pulled out of non-front line roles to plug the gaps.
Still, they should be thankful they've got a job and a small number had a cushy time and some people in the private sector have lost their jobs, so the NHS should be grateful for a weekly clap and no more, eh?!
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 02:11
Andeh1 said:
But that's what the job is? This isn't a sudden "armed forces now playing nurses & doctors.. Give them money for this extra birden"... Its doctors & nurses doing what doctors & nurses are paid for. People get sick, people die, NHS staff get paid to staff it.
Everything else has been dropped, canceled or reduced to allow them to focus on covid. People dieing in A&E is now people dieing of covid. People dieing of winter flu are now dieing of covid, car crashes? Sports injuries? Brawling outside the pub? Gym injuries? Nope, all down because of lockdown.
I havnt had a 12% pay rise adding together my last 8 years, what I have done is worry about my security & future employment prospects at the economy tanks & my business barely survived...
What have nurses/docs done above & beyond to deserve above & beyond pay rises (genuine question)?
I thought I'd already pointed out clearly what they had done above and beyond to deserve more than 1%, but you seem to want to ignore it.Everything else has been dropped, canceled or reduced to allow them to focus on covid. People dieing in A&E is now people dieing of covid. People dieing of winter flu are now dieing of covid, car crashes? Sports injuries? Brawling outside the pub? Gym injuries? Nope, all down because of lockdown.
I havnt had a 12% pay rise adding together my last 8 years, what I have done is worry about my security & future employment prospects at the economy tanks & my business barely survived...
What have nurses/docs done above & beyond to deserve above & beyond pay rises (genuine question)?
A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
T6 vanman said:
A Winner Is You said:
youngsyr said:
Andeh1 said:
But that's what the job is? This isn't a sudden "armed forces now playing nurses & doctors.. Give them money for this extra birden"... Its doctors & nurses doing what doctors & nurses are paid for. People get sick, people die, NHS staff get paid to staff it.
Everything else has been dropped, canceled or reduced to allow them to focus on covid. People dieing in A&E is now people dieing of covid. People dieing of winter flu are now dieing of covid, car crashes? Sports injuries? Brawling outside the pub? Gym injuries? Nope, all down because of lockdown.
I havnt had a 12% pay rise adding together my last 8 years, what I have done is worry about my security & future employment prospects at the economy tanks & my business barely survived...
What have nurses/docs done above & beyond to deserve above & beyond pay rises (genuine question)?
I thought I'd already pointed out clearly what they had done above and beyond to deserve more than 1%, but you seem to want to ignore it.Everything else has been dropped, canceled or reduced to allow them to focus on covid. People dieing in A&E is now people dieing of covid. People dieing of winter flu are now dieing of covid, car crashes? Sports injuries? Brawling outside the pub? Gym injuries? Nope, all down because of lockdown.
I havnt had a 12% pay rise adding together my last 8 years, what I have done is worry about my security & future employment prospects at the economy tanks & my business barely survived...
What have nurses/docs done above & beyond to deserve above & beyond pay rises (genuine question)?
A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
UK adult population 50,000,000,
NHS workers 1,100,000
UK deaths from Covid 125,000
Average expectation for covid deaths within a population of 1,100,000 = 2,750.
So the average NHS worker has less than a 1/10 risk of covid death than an average adult due to the procedures and protections in place within the NHS...!
1) Covid deaths are not evenly distributed amongst the adult population; they are extremely skewed towards the elderly. Something like 90% of deaths are in retired aged people and 98% in over 50s.
2) the 230 deaths number is only for front line NHS workers, not the entire NHS.
That is why front line care staff were in the highest priority group for vaccinations.
Have another try.
Andeh1 said:
youngsyr said:
I thought I'd already pointed out clearly what they had done above and beyond to deserve more than 1%, but you seem to want to ignore it.
A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
Well, yes. It's a risk of the job, be around sick people, get sick?A huge number have risked their lives and 230 have been killed by Covid.
How many of your colleagues have sacrificed their lives for their job???
Apparently thats just part of being a nurse though, right?
You don't get to suddenly demand extra pay because your obvious job has obvious risks. Fireman havnt turned around & demanded a 12.5% pay rise because the fire was hotter then expected?
A less than once in a 100 year event, for which your employer is totally unprepared and initially at least provides you with inadequate PPE that you know for a fact puts your life at real risk, is just a normal part of the job?
And it's equivalent to a normal day's work for a fireman?
If that is truly your opinion then I'm genuinely concerned for you, or more accurately those who encounter you.
oyster said:
youngsyr said:
I think what angers me most about it, is the weasel-ness of it; 1% is the minimum amount that could even be put forward as a "pay rise".
Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
You do know inflation is 0.7% right?Below 1.0% and people will write it off as negligble.
And the reality that it isn't even a real-terms pay rise - nurses purchasing power will be lower next year than it is now.
At the very least it should be inflation matching, and the Tories could play it out as making an exemption from the pay cuts for their hard work.
I would have preferred a one-off "Covid Recognition Reward" of say £1k (non-taxable) to every frontline healthcare worker (and keep them in the pay freeze) to show them that, you know, we actually appreciate what they've done over the past year.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/uk_retail_price_ind...
T6 vanman said:
youngsyr said:
Your grasp on statistical analysis is basic, to say the least.
Have another try.
I was editing whilst you posted ...... Have another try.
What's your answer to "like for like" ratio of less than half the UK population??
It's just a heart string comment that NHS staff are dying due to their job not based on facts
And I agree with your conclusion about as much as I agree with your statistics, which is to say: not at all.
Lord.Vader said:
No payrise or bonus for me this year, who can I complain to?
1% is better than 0% considering how ruined the country is.
The NHS get paid to care for people, so they’ve done their job.
Did your job significantly increase your risk of death over the past year?1% is better than 0% considering how ruined the country is.
The NHS get paid to care for people, so they’ve done their job.
How much overtime did you do?
How many of your colleagues were killed?
JagLover said:
youngsyr said:
T6 vanman said:
youngsyr said:
Your grasp on statistical analysis is basic, to say the least.
Have another try.
I was editing whilst you posted ...... Have another try.
What's your answer to "like for like" ratio of less than half the UK population??
It's just a heart string comment that NHS staff are dying due to their job not based on facts
And I agree with your conclusion about as much as I agree with your statistics, which is to say: not at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608
"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Did you work for the Trump campaign? Your grasp of statistics and the truth seems extremely tenuous.
ggdrew said:
The crux of any exceptional award should be to target those FRONT LINE NURSING (& probably direct support staff such as porters who were exposed) staff, due to their exceptional exposure to infection and the undoubted work-place stress; set against their relatively low pay level. This is set against a solid gold job security, pensions etc.
Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
A one off bonus for front line staff makes much more sense to me too.Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
I'd make it £1k and give it to everyone who had regular contact with Covid positive patients; its not about what your salary is, its a one-off reward as a thank you from the country for your efforts.
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
Earthdweller said:
There are plenty of jobs where the risk has been considerably raised over the last year, most though have not had the benefit of high grade PPE and early vaccination. Only a very small % of NHS have actually been working in very high risk roles
Overtime is spurious, it is compensated
The Police are the only public body that are having to have physical contact with members of the public without protection, hundreds have been spat at by people saying they have Covid, many have been assaulted during protests and demonstrations.. at least one has received permanent and life changing injuries
One Force lost four officers to Covid within a week recently
Yet, they are offered no enhanced PPE .. they have been told they can’t even get ahead in the line for a vaccine
They are not demanding a 12% pay rise .. just protection from the virus
Have you heard of "whataboutism"?Overtime is spurious, it is compensated
The Police are the only public body that are having to have physical contact with members of the public without protection, hundreds have been spat at by people saying they have Covid, many have been assaulted during protests and demonstrations.. at least one has received permanent and life changing injuries
One Force lost four officers to Covid within a week recently
Yet, they are offered no enhanced PPE .. they have been told they can’t even get ahead in the line for a vaccine
They are not demanding a 12% pay rise .. just protection from the virus
princeperch said:
youngsyr said:
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
That'll pay the bills for sure. Surprisingly, those people often work in relatively low paying health and social care roles.
A Winner Is You said:
youngsyr said:
ggdrew said:
The crux of any exceptional award should be to target those FRONT LINE NURSING (& probably direct support staff such as porters who were exposed) staff, due to their exceptional exposure to infection and the undoubted work-place stress; set against their relatively low pay level. This is set against a solid gold job security, pensions etc.
Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
A one off bonus for front line staff makes much more sense to me too.Doctors/surgeons/consultants etc, excluded due to their high pay rates.
Agency staff excluded due to their significantly higher pay, vs. NHS staff.
One-off tax-free bonus rather than pay rise. Say £5k. Such a targeted offer is much more affordable and would be more palatable to the population, I'd have thought. Instead of caving-in to the unions' money grab and threats.
I'd make it £1k and give it to everyone who had regular contact with Covid positive patients; its not about what your salary is, its a one-off reward as a thank you from the country for your efforts.
Similarly, a low level honour of some sort should be awarded to those people, maybe a civilian medal like a "Covid Response Medal" and any holder is entitled to use the letters CRM as an honorific sfter their name, as a further gesture of gratitude.
Anyone who volunteered and performed duties under that recruitment drive should also automatically qualify.
JagLover said:
youngsyr said:
Jesus Christ.
"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Eh?"Nursing barely makes top ten highest death rates by profession"?!
It's 3rd for female nurses and 6th for male nurses.
You really will go to any lengths to defend your prejudices, won't you?
Look at the chart further on down Nursing is fifth not third for women and is less dangerous (on this measure) than retail worker or government administrator.
What seems to be considerably more dangerous is care worker. Have you been out banging your pots and pans for them?
My wife is a key worker and been working in an air conditioned office throughout. No doubt why this occupation has a higher death rate than nursing.
And now you're moving onto some top class "whataboutism".
survivalist said:
Roboraver said:
smashing said:
Because no one died in hospital prior to 2020 and it was all roses for nurses and health practitioners...FFS get a grip.
$ickhead comment. $uck you $osser, While some will agree that every death is a tragedy ( I don't BTW), even they have to concede that if you deal with it every day then the excess deaths of 2020 aren't of colossal magnitude.
king hell, there are some ignorant people in here.Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?
You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?
I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.
Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.
I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.
Please educate yourselves, FFS.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 21:21
voyds9 said:
youngsyr said:
Fking hell, there are some ignorant people in here.
Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?
You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?
I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.
Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.
I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.
Please educate yourselves, FFS.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...
So annually about 530,000 people die in the UK but nurses are shocked and suffering from 125,000 deaths (mainly in very old people).king hell, there are some ignorant people in here.Do you think that ICU staff just stop caring about deaths after a few weeks in the job?
You think they're some sort of psychopathic robots that are immune to emotions?
I've seen one at the point of tears talking to a mother about her son's death.
Not to mention that many staff will not have a lot of experience with deaths prior to this year.
I'm genuinely amazed at the attitude of a lot of people on here. This was a once in a century pandemic that killed 125,000 people in a year, not just a bad flu season.
Please educate yourselves, FFS.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/covi...
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 21:21
Oh and the Hong Kong flu killed 89,000 in iirc 1972-73 so not really a once in a century occurrence
You know, the one where healthcare workers explain in their own words how it's impacted them?
Or are you just going to continue to think that you're right and they're wrong?
Welshbeef said:
youngsyr said:
Murmurs from a couple of nursing unions that strike action could be a possibility following a 1% pay rise being announced and reported by BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
You do realise the £1billion bung meant there were cuts from rUK it’s a zero sum game. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
LetsTryAgain said:
youngsyr said:
The government has a literal money printing machine, it's anything but a zero sum game!!!
Yes. Which devalues every single pound that is already in circulation. According to some in this very thread, inflation is at 0.7% (it's actually 0.9%) after a pro-longed period of running the money machine at full speed.
And there seems to be plenty of money for Boris' mates, but apparently not for nurses?
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