Israel invaded
Discussion
From world news Hamas have crossed into Israel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-...
This won't end well for innocent people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-...
This won't end well for innocent people
ZedLeg said:
Puddenchucker said:
Israel will no doubt repspond with a huge military assult and it will be Palestinian civillians that will suffer the most.
(And yes, there will be Israeli civillian casualties also.)
You'd have thought that after all these years, both sides would have learnt that shooting each other isn't going to work but neither side is willing to make compromise so the cycle continues.
What compromise can the Palestinians make? Israel wants the land and doesn’t care how they take it.(And yes, there will be Israeli civillian casualties also.)
You'd have thought that after all these years, both sides would have learnt that shooting each other isn't going to work but neither side is willing to make compromise so the cycle continues.
Israeli illegal settlements is one issues. Being turned to Ash via predator drone seems to me to be much worse.
This action by Hamas is jnsane literally 1000s could die because of this.
ZedLeg said:
If you were a shop keeper in Gaza where your home and livelihood could be demolished on a whim and your kids may have been shot for protesting, you might not be so scared of the rocket that may come.
Just caught up on this thread and if thr claims for Israeli women being shot in back of jeeps is true....its nit going to be an odd rocket its going to be your whole city flattened, it's going to be a massacre. If the claims of executing civilinns are true Hamas are literally signing death warrant of their own people.Put it this was if we in the UK had a war with France I would hope as civilians we would nit be directly involved. We're that the case right or wrong I would expect out goverment to respond in the same way....scary isn't how this stuff escalates
Skeptisk said:
Why do you have to have “lefty” specs to think that the Palestinians are being oppressed by the Israelis?
I can empathise with both sides - particularly the majority of innocents on both sides - but there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in the west, where Hamas is rightly castigated for their actions yet the disproportionate response from Israel where hundreds or thousands of Palestinians are killed for every few dozen Israelis is hardly mentioned, nevertheless the trapping of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and squeezing out of Palestinians in the West Bank by illegal Israeli settlements.
In the 90s there was genuine hope of a two state solution. That pretty much died with Rabin (at the hands of a Jewish settler). Since then the pandering to the ultra religious/right wing in Israel and the much higher birth rate of the ultra religious (and the resultant demographic shift) plus the indifference of the West has seen the two state solution fall off the table. That means that most Palestinians have grown up never having experienced a realistic hope of getting their own state. That must be pretty soul destroying.
I have a long history of debating Zed we even agree now and again but mostly don't. I try and keep it peaceful as Zed almost without fail takes an aposing view.I can empathise with both sides - particularly the majority of innocents on both sides - but there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in the west, where Hamas is rightly castigated for their actions yet the disproportionate response from Israel where hundreds or thousands of Palestinians are killed for every few dozen Israelis is hardly mentioned, nevertheless the trapping of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and squeezing out of Palestinians in the West Bank by illegal Israeli settlements.
In the 90s there was genuine hope of a two state solution. That pretty much died with Rabin (at the hands of a Jewish settler). Since then the pandering to the ultra religious/right wing in Israel and the much higher birth rate of the ultra religious (and the resultant demographic shift) plus the indifference of the West has seen the two state solution fall off the table. That means that most Palestinians have grown up never having experienced a realistic hope of getting their own state. That must be pretty soul destroying.
I don't recognise your username and this is a decisive subject so respectfully I am not going to engage with you as well. You can hold whatever views you like.
Captain Smerc said:
petemurphy said:
How do we think Israel will respond?
With a bangI am 100% sure Israel will have done bad things to Palestinians but that footage will go around the world and give Israel justification to do whatever it wants.
No matter where you sit on the side of the cause you surely have to see that footage is going to lead to 1000s of deaths.
simo1863 said:
Gecko1978 said:
Just seen the footage of the women bare foot bleeding hands bound being stuffed into the back of a jeep by group of armed men an other crowding round to abuse her.
I am 100% sure Israel will have done bad things to Palestinians but that footage will go around the world and give Israel justification to do whatever it wants.
No matter where you sit on the side of the cause you surely have to see that footage is going to lead to 1000s of deaths.
If its the same one I've seen then there's a lot of blood from a place that may also indicate rape.I am 100% sure Israel will have done bad things to Palestinians but that footage will go around the world and give Israel justification to do whatever it wants.
No matter where you sit on the side of the cause you surely have to see that footage is going to lead to 1000s of deaths.
There's something oxymoronic about chanting god is great, whilst spitting at the naked and desecrated corpse of an executed female prisoner.
aeropilot said:
Gecko1978 said:
Gazza being bombed now I wonder if Israel have B52 type aircraft or the AC-130.which can circle at great height and rain down death.
Of course Israel don't have B-52's.... 
They do have quite a number of F-15, F-16 and F-35 though.....
Yahonza said:
Gecko1978 said:
aeropilot said:
Gecko1978 said:
Gazza being bombed now I wonder if Israel have B52 type aircraft or the AC-130.which can circle at great height and rain down death.
Of course Israel don't have B-52's.... They do have quite a number of F-15, F-16 and F-35 though.....
These include
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress (70,000 lb (32,000 kg))
Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit (40,000 lb (18,000 kg))
Rockwell B-1 Lancer (75,000 lb (34,000 kg))
Tupolev Tu-22M (46,300 lb (21,000 kg))
Tupolev Tu-95 (55,000 lb (25,000 kg))
Tupolev Tu-160 (88,200 lb (40,000 kg))
Xian H-6 (20,000 lb (9,100 kg))
So answering my own question no Israel don't they have
F15's and Ah-64 (apaches)
And then Fighter aircraft.
The F15 can carry just over 10,000kg of ordinance and fuel that's a lot of death falling to earth but not dame level as the above aircraft.
Solocle said:
Rick_1138 said:
looking at the death toll, i can well see Isreal getting closer and closer to the "f
k putting up with this, into them!"
I think that point has been reached to a certain extent, but there are levels.k putting up with this, into them!"I think we may end up with Israel returning to occupying Gaza. Or it may be too much trouble.
Skeptisk said:
OutInTheShed said:
vixen1700 said:
Just seen this on a newsfeed
Israel's cabinet invokes Article 40 Aleph, officially declaring war for the first time since the Yom Kippur War in 1973.
It's pretty rare for countries to actually declare war isn't it?Israel's cabinet invokes Article 40 Aleph, officially declaring war for the first time since the Yom Kippur War in 1973.
When did a nuclear-armed state last formally declare war?
Countdown said:
g4ry13 said:
Yahonza said:
OutInTheShed said:
It's widely reported that Hamas are claiming/acknowledging Iranian help in their incursion.
I can see this escalating.
Which is why the US is sending over ships / strike force.I can see this escalating.
Their presence is honestly a pointless exercise. Perhaps not throwing huge chunks of money towards "Palestinian" people in the first place would have been a better idea.
What I think we might witness now is a fully operational modern military (Israel) without rules of engagement take on a weaker but committed enemy and an ensuing blood bath. How about a 1km wide DMZ inside gaza made of rubble that sounds bad. Or maybe parts of gaza annexed and destroyed split in 1 maybe.
Whatever happens it won't be pretty
P. ONeill said:
Why is the Israeli occupation of Palestine treated differently to the Russian occupation of Ukraine? Why do Palestinians matter less?
Self-proclaimed internationalists should be consistent in their approach to human rights, territorial integrity and self-determination.
Well Israel handed it back in 2007, they do blockade it. Ukraine were invaded by Russia for no logical reason. Israel 50 years ago were invaded by its neighboursSelf-proclaimed internationalists should be consistent in their approach to human rights, territorial integrity and self-determination.
Kes Arevo said:
youngsyr said:
Not really the point though, is it?
There's reporting horrific events and then there's exaggerating those horrible events even further for propaganda purposes.
What about the aid worker getting his head hacked off with a shovel?There's reporting horrific events and then there's exaggerating those horrible events even further for propaganda purposes.
Does that do it for you?
What about the festival that was attacked? Hundreds dead?
Is that just propaganda too?
Edited by Gecko1978 on Monday 9th October 08:25
Countdown said:
Ridgemont said:
Fatah/PLO got recognition as the Palestinian National Authority by *Israel* as part of the Oslo accords. It was envisaged as the stepping stone to a two state solution. That was killed stone dead by the second intifada and the rise of Hamas. The problem has always been that on one hand the two state solution never goes as far as some in the Palestinian side want (status of Jerusalem, full national status) while too far for those zealots on the Jewish far right. But Israel has spent an enormous amount of effort attempting to find a way of encompassing a measure of autonomy for the Palestinians.
A "measure of autonomy" is doing a lot of lifting there. As Amnesty International (and many others) have said, in the West Bank it's basically an apartheid State.ZedLeg said:
The thing that no one talks about is that Palestine has 0 power in any negotiation. Israel can and do withhold basic services and resources as a matter of course. The only angle they have is a human rights one and Israel has shown repeatedly that it's not something they care about.
Before Hamas were elected the largest aid givers to Gaza were the USA and Israel, this aid stopped when hamas were elected. I doubt the average person in gaza knew that when ticking the hamas box. Human rights have little value, China, KSA, Russia, North Korea, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Sudan, even the good old UK during covid.But fighting back with murder and terror is not going to make your country better
ZedLeg said:
Gecko1978 said:
But fighting back with murder and terror is not going to make your country better
I don't disagree but I can understand how someone in the position of a young person in Gaza could be convinced that it is.LimaDelta said:
isaldiri said:
LimaDelta said:
Random Account No6 said:
Deesee said:
IDF are roof knocking residential buildings and today targeted 2x refugee camps..
Are they giving people 15mins like they did the other day? RichFN2 said:
Al-Qassam spokesman, Abu Obaidah: We have decided to put an end to the Zionist opression of our people. From now on, every attack on our people will be met with the execution of one of the enemy hostages, which we will broadcast and publicise
Hezbollah are due to make a statement shortly...
So broadly ensuring Gaza is turned to rubble very smartHezbollah are due to make a statement shortly...
andymadmak said:
isaldiri said:
Do you get to do whatever you wish to the people who were conquered too....?
Absolutely not.War is ugly and the Victor's get to do what they like. Had Germany won WW2 then we would have seen millions of more deaths etc.
So to reiterate its not right but voters do get to do whatever they like
Hugo Stiglitz said:
J4CKO said:
I know it’s fking evil what Hamas did but they are a terrorist organisation, Israel is a country and they can pretty quickly be on the wrong side of history here.
They are entitled to retribution but it’s Hamas, not some poor sod, his wife and kids who were just eking a living.
It’s a human trait to lash out when wounded, angry and hurt but they need to not sink to the level of Hamas who apparently killed 40 babies and children, Any sympathy evaporates when they reciprocate in kind.
Wasn’t that long ago Israel were advertising tourism, not sure I would be ever thinking of going.
I have no clear “side”, just want it to stop, there aren’t many that actually want this, and they will tend to be far away from the reality of beheaded babies, piles of corpses and explosions.
Makes you realise, we arent that far off our cousins the Chimpanzee really.
What would you suggest Israel does? king evil what Hamas did but they are a terrorist organisation, Israel is a country and they can pretty quickly be on the wrong side of history here.They are entitled to retribution but it’s Hamas, not some poor sod, his wife and kids who were just eking a living.
It’s a human trait to lash out when wounded, angry and hurt but they need to not sink to the level of Hamas who apparently killed 40 babies and children, Any sympathy evaporates when they reciprocate in kind.
Wasn’t that long ago Israel were advertising tourism, not sure I would be ever thinking of going.
I have no clear “side”, just want it to stop, there aren’t many that actually want this, and they will tend to be far away from the reality of beheaded babies, piles of corpses and explosions.
Makes you realise, we arent that far off our cousins the Chimpanzee really.
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